Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

[sn-remember]

Indeed, SN is not much more than an empty box with a lot of debt and not many assets. None of their aircraft are in ownership now as far as I know. Their operational result/brand is the only real asset but 40m€ profit at an all time low fuel price, there is not many threats to make. (And btw, few of you seem to forget that denying LH the shared aint an option. They have to contractual right to do so)

Let me disagree ...
SN is a more wealthy airline than you think ... bcs they are a FULL star alliance member.
This is worth value IMHO ..
There are not so many star hubs on the planet ...
And there are not so many carriers that are full STAR members.
Care to enumarate them with me ?
Star hubs :
sfo,iah,ord,ewr,iad,yvr(small),yyz,yul,bog,cai,jnb,add,del,bom(partially),pek,pvg,szx(small), icn(partially), nrt(partially), bkk,sin,ist.
And in Europe: fra,muc,zrh,vie,cph,arn(small),waw(small),.. and bru.
Star carriers are the one operating from the hubs. Not so many arund ...
This means MONEY... Sn HAS value ! Much more than you imagine ...
Ei just being taken over by the ba group will soon benefit from a full 1world membership. Be sure their future is bright.
LH dumping sn as a star carrier and bru as a star hub would NOT make a bright future for B. airline business ....
Let's hope I misundersood something and that LH will care for the important and valuable Bru star hub.

[Passenger]

What does the PUBLIC (= the customers) care about not paid hotel bills after the bankruptcy 15 years ago? Nothing.

I didn't say that the public cares about unpaid hotel bills. I said the travel/tourism trade remembers "Sabena" to losses from the past.

What matters is a recognizable brandname, on a large scale. It's priceless.

Some brandnames are indeed recognized worldwide, but that doens't mean they're suitable for commercial use. They may be burned ("verbrand") because of previous incidents, events or disasters. Call your ferryboat "Herald of Free Enterprise II", and 50% of your potential clients won't board. Call your new superb medication against cancer "Softenon", and 75% of your patients will refuse it.

Same applies for the brandname Sabena. Ask 100 Belgians, age between 30 and 100 to what the name Sabena reminds them, and I'm pretty sure you will hear this:
1. a heavy bankruptcy
2. staff on strike
3. eater of taxpayers' money.
You don't re-activate a brandname with such bad memories.

Face it: Brussels Airlines might be known in Belgium but is hardly known in other countries. Sabena still is a recognizable brand, even after 15 years. All the negativity about the bankruptcy has faded away.

The brand name Brussels Airlines doesn't need to be known by 90% of the world population. It has to be known by its potential users, and it is. Just look at the Dutch people flying Brussels Airlines, just look at Tomorrowland, just look at the Africans flying it.

I think the people in the tourism industry etc, who have lost money because of the bankruptcy, are clever enough to realize the 'new' Sabena has NOTHING to do with the old company and is an entirely new company anno 2018. And if not I've one message to them: get over it.

"Get over it"? Your (potential) clients will react with a "get lost with your Sabena: there are enough other airlines".

[nordikcam]

Ask 100 Belgians, age between 30 and 100 to what the name Sabena reminds them, and I'm pretty sure you will hear this:
1. a heavy bankruptcy
2. staff on strike
3. eater of taxpayers' money.
You don't re-activate a brandname with such bad memories.

I'm one of those Belgians.
I fly SN, I appreciate SN and could ride in a Sabena airplane with pleasure and perhaps a bit of nostalgia. But if the next company is Brussels wings why not ! The most important fact is to keep employment, network and a hub in BRU for connecting pax.
But for me compare "Softenon" medicin and "Sabena" mark, although I understand the reasoning, does not seem appropriate to me.

[Passenger]

Ask 100 Belgians, age between 30 and 100 to what the name Sabena reminds them, and I'm pretty sure you will hear this:
1. a heavy bankruptcy
2. staff on strike
3. eater of taxpayers' money.
You don't re-activate a brandname with such bad memories.

I'm one of those Belgians.
I fly SN, I appreciate SN and could ride in a Sabena airplane with pleasure and perhaps a bit of nostalgia. But if the next company is Brussels wings why not ! The most important fact is to keep employment, network and a hub in BRU for connecting pax.
But for me compare "Softenon" medicin and "Sabena" mark, although I understand the reasoning, does not seem appropriate to me.

Maybe I should have written "ask 100 non-luchtzak.be members to what the name Sabena reminds them". Because really, outside there, the name "Sabena" only reminds to bad things.

Actually, there is even a word "Sabena-scenario", used by the Flemish press:
http://www.vlaamswoordenboek.be/definities/toon/24662
sabena-scenario (het ~, ~s onz. zelfst. nw.)
Containerbegrip uit de media voor overheidsbedrijven waarmee het verkeerd afgelopen is of zou kunnen aflopen. De term “Sabena-scenario” werd in de media reeds gebruikt in verband met de NMBS, Brussels Airlines, De Post, Fortis… Sabena NV (Société Anonyme Belge d’Exploitation de la Navigation Aérienne) was van 1923 tot november 2001 de nationale luchtvaartmaatschappij van België. Op 7 november 2001 werd Sabena failliet verklaard. Dit is tot op heden het grootste faillissement dat de Belgische geschiedenis ooit gekend heeft.

"Sabena-scenario" is an expression in the press, used for public companies that ended badly, or are expected to end badly.

And though Brussels Airlines is no public company, a referral to Sabena will create the same perception.

[lumumba]

One thing is for sure Brussels Airlines is the opposite of SABENA client friendly,very dynamic,good prices and profitable etc...
We can be proud if this company a lot of my French college are very happy here in Africa.
They very aggressive price wise with a good service to parts of France...

[Boavida]

I don't like the fact that LH is going to need "the whole of 2017" to "think" about the future of SN. Why does the uncertainty have to take so long? It's also very bad for the image of the airline. SN will have the image of 'an airline that wil disappear'.

As a customer, I don't expect the same level of quality and care from an airline on the way to disappearance. I don't expect the staff (cabin crew etc) to be motivated if they know the airline will be gone. Totally understandable, btw.

It's in everybody's interest to keep the period of uncertainty as limited as possible.

[cnc]

Seriously, when you think of it, it would make a lot of sense.

Even after 10 years of 'Brussels Airlines', Sabena still is a more recognized brand in the world, CERTAINLY in the so important African market. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't use this valuable brand again.

it didn't work with PAN AM, why should it work with sabena? besides... the generations born in the 90's and after have no nostalgie with sabena and the older generations didn't stop flying just because sabena wasn't around.
still love sabena but that time is in the past and should remain there

[sn-remember]

Looking at AirBerlin heavy restructuring ... and comparing it to SN's business model ..
It seems most leisure flights + non feeding flights will be suspended or taken over by EW.
They will develop their network around 2 hubs BER and DUS. They have 18 airbus a332 for the l/hauls. Let's say 9 for DUS and 9 for SXF ?
Just to say they are now focusing on the hub model, much like sn are doing, and roughly on the same scale hub wise ... AB being helped by the 1world alliance and SN the star alliance. They dropped the p2p (or O/D) model which was a money drain and hope to make money developing the hub model. Hope they succeed.
Not sure EW will do much better long term, although there is of course a need for LC p2p operation linking non- hub stations.
My point being BRU and SN should continue developing around the hub model ...

[sn26567]

Looking at AirBerlin heavy restructuring ...
They will develop their network around 2 hubs BER and DUS. They have 18 airbus a332 for the l/hauls. Let's say 9 for DUS and 9 for SXF ?

One small remark: AB operates out of TXL, not SXF.

[sn-remember]

Thalnk you for the correction ... I was anticipating the BER expansion of SXF;) AB are certainly suffering from the incredible delay at BER.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Is LH CEO Carsten Spohr's forthcoming visit in Brussels still confirmed? What can we expect of it? I really hope that the future of SN will be secured asap and in the best way...

[OO-ITR]

Carsten Spohr is in Brussels today to start the negotiations with the other shareholders.

http://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviatio ... 1-3017.art

[sn26567]

Carsten Spohr is in Brussels today to start the negotiations with the other shareholders.

http://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviatio ... 1-3017.art

Meeting at 18:30. Main topics of discussion:

1. The ridiculous price of 2.6 million euros for the remaining 55% of the shares
2. A Belgian anchorage for the future (as it seems certain that SN will be integrated into Eurowings)

[sean1982]

Carsten Spohr is in Brussels today to start the negotiations with the other shareholders.

http://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviatio ... 1-3017.art

Meeting at 18:30. Main topics of discussion:

1. The ridiculous price of 2.6 million euros for the remaining 55% of the shares
2. A Belgian anchorage for the future (as it seems certain that SN will be integrated into Eurowings)

euhm, lufthansa already payed enough with giving them endless lifelines no? At a time when everyone else was gonna let them go bust?

[ezis_bis]

2. A Belgian anchorage for the future (as it seems certain that SN will be integrated into Eurowings)

I do not mind a name change that much.
But as part of eurowings, SN will not be part of *A or the Transatlantic JV
This will make it twice uninteresting to fly with (for me)
Adding the connecting passengers they have now, often coming from *A

Bad for SN and BRU, good for LH and FRA
Think it will be more of SK and CPH for me though

[sn-remember]

The big issue and indeed main point is maintaining the star alliance membership ..
Dropping it would be a shocking nonsense !

[sean1982]

This is a very interesting read from la libre

http://m.lalibre.be/debats/opinions/luf ... 5761cb5b66

[DeltaWiskey]

Why do you think it is an interesting read?
imo, it is written by someone who stopped living 15y ago, a lot has happened/changed since. I think the sale of Brussels Airlines has very little to do with Sabena, although, we should never forget the mistakes that were made in the past, learn from it and avoid making them again.

I also don't understand why BRU would/should no longer be a Star Alliance hub if they are taken over by LH? Especially now, with intra-European (business) traffic under huge pressure to/from BRU, it makes connecting passengers and the longhaul network that more important.

Yes, the impact of the attacks and the negative image of Brussels (the airport and the city) stil have a big impact on reservations and yield. It will take a long time to recover.

[sean1982]

Why do you think it is an interesting read?
imo, it is written by someone who stopped living 15y ago, a lot has happened/changed since. I think the sale of Brussels Airlines has very little to do with Sabena, although, we should never forget the mistakes that were made in the past, learn from it and avoid making them again.

I also don't understand why BRU would/should no longer be a Star Alliance hub if they are taken over by LH? Especially now, with intra-European (business) traffic under huge pressure to/from BRU, it makes connecting passengers and the longhaul network that more important.

Yes, the impact of the attacks and the negative image of Brussels (the airport and the city) stil have a big impact on reservations and yield. It will take a long time to recover.

actually that person lives very much in the here and now and is bringing to light how the mismanagement of SN brought the company to the position it is in now, not to mention the billions of tax money that has gone in to the inital set up that will probably never be repaid.

[sn26567]

The meeting between Carsten Spohr and the shareholders was very constructive, but that's all what was said. All parties involved hope to come to a satisfactory conclusion in the coming weeks.