Brussels Airport delays extension of A pier

[RTM]

Flanker, glad to see an idea of yours that isn't completely bonkers.
Too bad you still got the hairs in my neck upright by the statement that the idea of airbusvsboeing isn't going to work, but... of coarse yours is...
But I'll stay on the positive side...

I actually think your confoguration can work, but I doubt it is worth building it completely that way. Lets see it as a temporary or intermediate solution. Meaning, the extension on the A-pier will eventually be build. So, the top three stands you've drawn in, may as well be left out, otherwise you would need to remove them again when the extension does materialise. That would not be a big problem, but there is the thing of the pax crossings in that corner for the Easyjet boarding on stands 138,136,134 and 132. Basically, your offering 4 stands for 3. I think it might be more interesting to keep the LCC stands as they are for now.
As well, I don't know how effective the two additional stands on the right of the connector will be. As you allready mention, it is for smaller planes. And if you have to converge R4 and S for it, it might be a sacrifice in peak hours with regards to simultaneous pushbacks. But that could be solved by creating pushback lines.

Other problem is, and that is why I think it will not be this way, is that you basically turn their shopping center into a terminal, eliminating shopping space. The whole reason they started building the connector in the first place.

[AirOpinion]

Look at eddf stands A1 - B10 at EDDF... Everything is possible You might want to do a push & pull...
What about turboprop positions?

Is there really a plan to provide for gate space at the connector? I might have missed it but I never saw it in the design of the connector building.

[Conti764]

Building gates at the west side of the connector is a waste of money. If one day A-pier West would be constructed, you'd have to tear those connector gates back down. As long as the A-pier in its current form can cope with demand, they have to keep it like it is...
The A-pier West extension would only serve 10 planes, where you already draw eight gates at the connector and the Topaaz, but in A-pier West, those ten gates will/would be widebody gates.

In many airports you already see double bridge gates, I believe BRU could have them too, but no chance for that untill A-pier West is build.

[Flanker2]

IMO, BRU doesn't need 10 more widebody gates for the foreseeable future. In fact, even if BRU does build 10 more widebody gates, to be used simultaneously on top of the existing ones in B and T and the ones using the stands on the South Apron, their limited runway capacity for departures (25R) will not be able to keep pace with the demand.
With 9W off to AMS (AFAIK), BRU will now have plenty of available capacity.

Also, if BRU expands its Asia offering, these will be afternoon flights, so it doesn't really matter.
SN can also grow more efficiently with an afternoon/evening wave to Africa/US, by making better use of their feeding capacity.

I think that a gate-equipped connector will be able to fulfill its role in any expansion scenario for the foreseeable future.

[teddybAIR]

I think that a gate-equipped connector will be able to fulfill its role in any expansion scenario for the foreseeable future.

I think a non-gate-equiped connecter will be able to cope with medium term future demand as well. Just a few questions nobody seems to bother about before giving their interpretation of the best solution:

> What is the average occupancy rate of the gates? What is it during peak hours?
> What is the opportunity cost of not having a spare capacity available at peak hours?
> What is the incremental cost of fitting the connector with gates?
> What is the cost of the additional idle capacity during non-peak hours?
> What is the financial health and are the short term expectations as to traffic evolution at BRU?
> What is the lead time to build the West extention to the A-pier?
> What are contingency plans if additional capacity is needed within the lead time to build the west extention?

Any alternative that is proposed without accounting for the answers of the above (and many more) is merely daydreaming

[Flanker2]

I think a non-gate-equiped connecter will be able to cope with medium term future demand as well.

More or less it will indeed. That's why I thought that investing hundreds of millions in the extension was crazy in the first place. Only during the morning peak time, there is a shortage of non-shengen gates.

To add fuel to the fire, I also think that it's crazy to invest 71 millions for a connector that will only contain shops. Let's do the math for a second, shall we?
Let's say that the connector will contain 50 shops and each of these 50 shops will pay an average of 2000 EUR of net rent per month, after deduction of owner's expenses and taxes (or about 3000 EUR gross). This excludes shared expenses for 700 euro's on average for utilities, cleaning, security, etc...

To break-even on 71 million euro's, it will take 59 years... Or a nett yearly ROI of 1,7%, which is less than inflation. It will be more interesting to put your money on a "savings account" for that kind of ROI.

So to me it only makes sense to build this connector if they also put gates in it, so that the total investment is around 90 millions, divided 50/50 between the connector and the gate capacity expansion.
The gate capacity expansion will serve to shorten the walk to/from terminal A, as terminal A will start in the connector; and make terminal T much larger, so that this can become the Star Alliance widebodies terminal, which will offer added value to the airport.

[Lamal]

So to me it only makes sense to build this connector if they also put gates in it, so that the total investment is around 90 millions, divided 50/50 between the connector and the gate capacity expansion.
The gate capacity expansion will serve to shorten the walk to/from terminal A, as terminal A will start in the connector; and make terminal T much larger, so that this can become the Star Alliance widebodies terminal, which will offer added value to the airport.

May I remind you that the T-zone can only be used for non-Shenghen departures. The T-zone is not build to process arriving flights extra-Shenghen. So making the T-zone any larger has no point, as your *A long haul carriers would still have to dock at Pier B to unload pax.
The only one's happy with this procedure would be the handlers, as they would have their hands full in the morning with B2T movements.

That's the whole reason why they want(ed) to build Pier A West, as you need to have a physical separation between arrivals and departures level, like Pier B has.

Greetz,

D

[teddybAIR]

Let's say that the connector will contain 50 shops and each of these 50 shops will pay an average of 2000 EUR of net rent per month

I'm usually a fan of down to earth post-it type calculations, but on one condition: they need to be more or less based on realistic assumptions. I just want to point out that according to a 2012 property insight study conducted by CBRE, the average rental value of office space in Brussels was 225€/m² and that is in what they called 'a slow market'. You can imagine that a prime location as the airport will charge a premium over the average prices mentionned in the city center. Actually, the airport is somewhat the most premium location you can rent.

I don't know how many m² retail space the connector will provide, but in your calculations you should consider a price upwards of 225€/m²/month.

Just to provide you with some benchmarks: the same CBRE report mentions a few key transactions of retail estate that will put things a little bit in perspective for you:

> Galeries Saint-Lambert (Liège): acquired for 100m€ by CBRE Global Investors
> Westland Shopping Center (Anderlecht): acquired for 80,75m€ by AG real estate
> Veldstraat 47-49 (Ghent): acquired for 44m€ by Groep Tans
> T-Forum (Tongeren): 32m€

I hope the above prices sheds some new light on the value of retail space and gives you the necessary elements for a better educated guess at the rental prices of retail space at BRU.

Can anybody get his hands on a BRU annual report? The only thing I could find online was a FPIM annual report with little or no detail on the BRU income-split.

Best regards,
bAIR

[Flanker2]

You are right but there is a solution to that too.
Given that departing pax have to be bussed to T anyway, why don't they bus them directly to the aircraft in the first place, so that the aircraft can unload at T, then the bridge is removed to make room for stairs.
That way, terminal T is used only for arrivals and pax transferring between the U.S. and Africa.

Other solution is to use "swinging walls" or a flow system using doors, but that will take forever to explain and I've personally never been in terminal T, so I wouldn't if that would be possible. I think that CRL works like that, many airports in the U.S. use such systems.
Basically, you create a glass corridor along the outer walls and use doors to keep the two partitions segregated.

[Flanker2]

Let's say that the connector will contain 50 shops and each of these 50 shops will pay an average of 2000 EUR of net rent per month

I'm usually a fan of down to earth post-it type calculations, but on one condition: they need to be more or less based on realistic assumptions. I just want to point out that according to a 2012 property insight study conducted by CBRE, the average rental value of office space in Brussels was 225€/m² and that is in what they called 'a slow market'. You can imagine that a prime location as the airport will charge a premium over the average prices mentionned in the city center. Actually, the airport is somewhat the most premium location you can rent.

I don't know how many m² retail space the connector will provide, but in your calculations you should consider a price upwards of 225€/m²/month.

Just to provide you with some benchmarks: the same CBRE report mentions a few key transactions of retail estate that will put things a little bit in perspective for you:

> Galeries Saint-Lambert (Liège): acquired for 100m€ by CBRE Global Investors
> Westland Shopping Center (Anderlecht): acquired for 80,75m€ by AG real estate
> Veldstraat 47-49 (Ghent): acquired for 44m€ by Groep Tans
> T-Forum (Tongeren): 32m€

I hope the above prices sheds some new light on the value of retail space and gives you the necessary elements for a better educated guess at the rental prices of retail space at BRU.

Can anybody get his hands on a BRU annual report? The only thing I could find online was a FPIM annual report with little or no detail on the BRU income-split.

Best regards,
bAIR

225EUR/m² per month is not even achievable on the Meir and Rue Neuve.
Due to the crisis, you can now find retail space for 30% less than that at those top locations.
BRU is not a top location, the through traffic is only 10 million pax per year in each terminal, which is 10 times less than those top locations and people go there to take a flight, not for shopping.
So BRU would be more likely to be getting around 50-75EUR/m², which is still more expensive than your average rent prices. Please be sure to note that we're talking about gross income from rent, and that it's a new building that has to be written down, will require concierge and management services.

My math is based on a average of 40-60m² per shop, excluding shared costs and utlities, so I think that we're in the right ballpark.

I don't see 50 shop owners paying 10.000 euro a month for 45m² in BRU, which would be equivalent to 225/m²/month.

[Flybe]

May I remind you that the T-zone can only be used for non-Shenghen departures. The T-zone is not build to process arriving flights extra-Shenghen. So making the T-zone any larger has no point, as your *A long haul carriers would still have to dock at Pier B to unload pax.
The only one's happy with this procedure would be the handlers, as they would have their hands full in the morning with B2T movements.

That's the whole reason why they want(ed) to build Pier A West, as you need to have a physical separation between arrivals and departures level, like Pier B has.

Indeed, T zone is only for non-schengen departures. A few comments though (bear in mind that I do not work at the airport anymore for about 2 years already, so my info might be a bit outdated):

* Morning peak, with the use of the T zone has as a consequence that many schengen flights are placed on remote positions. I agree that gates on the connector could help reduce this, but I am not sure in how far this (Schengen flights on remote) is considered a problem in the first place.

* T zone was initially conceived as a temporary measure, caught in speed by 9W's scissor hub. IIRC, A west would add a mix of (mainly) non-schengen long haul gates (with the necessary separation), and a few Schengen gates, AND A east would be converted back to Schengen only! So it's not about a huge expansion of the non-schengen gates, it's about providing again enough schengen gates in the morning, while being able to centralise STAR in the A terminal indeed.

* At least when the T zone was set up, I can tell you that the handlers were not too optimistic about it. Yes, there are towing fees, but the added strain on scheduling (no cleaning, catering, etc whilst towing, so when to plan those time taking activities when the aircraft arrives late at 6am, tows at 8am (takes a while, getting permission of the tower, etc) and leaves at 10:30am... They found a planning that seems to work more or less now, but I can tell you it has an impact!

* T zone, IIRC has to be sweeped by police when converting from A to T and back, is it still so? Manpower...

* Flanker, although bussing is (was?) provided by Brussels Airlines from the B to the T zone, most passengers just walk, no bussing to the aircraft. If the aircraft arrives at T, bussing needs to happen from T to B arrival zone. Makes sense to have bussing for arrivals, and T zone (with lounge, shops, snacks etc) for departures.

So just in short, I think some gates (if needed, doesn't need to happen immediately) at the connector west side could be a good temporary measure for schengen flights. A west is still needed to solve the non-schengen temporary solution decently once and for all. Yes, 9W might leave, others (QR, EY, I don't know) will eventually take it's place. It's all about long term planning.

Greets,
Pieter

[teddybAIR]

225EUR/m² per month is not even achievable on the Meir and Rue Neuve.

Again Flanker, before you voice statements like "225EUR/m² is not even achievable on the Meir and Rue Neuve", I would like to see you back up your statements with sources. If you don't, then it's merely your opinion.

Now, my turn to argument: according to a 2011 Trends article with Cushman & Wakefield - a real estate specialist - retail prices at the Meir topped those at the Rue Neuve and were at a whopping 1.800EUR/m²!

So frankly, if an internationally recognised retail specialist states in Trends that those are going rates for retail prices at top locations and Flanker2 states on luchtzak.be that he rather thinks 75EUR/m² is the right ballpark figure, I'm rather inclined to believe the retail expert.

Source

[Flanker2]

Now, my turn to argument: according to a 2011 Trends article with Cushman & Wakefield - a real estate specialist - retail prices at the Meir topped those at the Rue Neuve and were at a whopping 1.800EUR/m²

1. It's 1800/m²/year, not per month. That's probably why you think that I'm not in the right ballpark.
2. 1800/m²/year or 150/m²/month is the right ballpark for maximum rent at these locations right now. You will also find for less, these are the maximum prices that real estate agencies and owners try to leverage out, but depending on the size of the shop and the demand, they often have to go below that.

De Meir is samen met de Nieuwstraat in Brussel de duurste winkelstraat van ons land. Voor een gemiddelde winkel op de Meir betaal je een huurprijs van 1.800euro per vierkante meter per jaar, berekende het bedrijf Cushman & Wakefield, dat zich specialiseert in het verhuren van dergelijke winkels.

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/g334uen7

[teddybAIR]

ok, that 'per jaar' was not mentionned in the Trends-article. So now we have a figure we can use as benchmark: 150€/m²/year. Unfortunately the articles don't mention retail real estate prices at locations such as railway stations, airports, etc.

[Flanker2]

Rental space in normal environments in cities costs less than 10EUR/m²/month, about comparable to rental of living space.

We don't have figures for BRU, but I estimate that it will be something like 40-60EUR/m²/month airside maximum. If you suddenly have 50 more shops, they might even need to go a bit below that to get the space filled.

It's still a lot of money for just space and only an impulsive clientele base, because there are other expenses such as utilities, staff, and the initial investment of setting up the shop. Racks, decoration, cash registers and other supplies cost a huge amount of money (expect no less than 200 EUR/m²), and then you still have to fill those racks with the merchandise that you have to pay upfront.

You're going to make money selling cigarettes, but if everyone sells cigarettes, no one will make money...
In a regular shop landside, cigarettes at full price earn the seller less than 20 cents per pack. Airside, the accises are waived, so they earn much more, but they have to share the discount with the customers and it must be interesting enough for them to carry it around through their flight.
Even if they earn 1,5 euro per pack, they have to sell over 10.000 packs per month per shop just to break-even on staff, rent, utlilities and overhead. Far from impossible but if many shops sell the same stuff...

[teddybAIR]

Agree,

but don't underestimate the turnover of the airport shops. I used to work as a student in the air side General Store in terminal B (that's just the airport version of your average press shop). It was no exception to see people leaving with ticket values exceeding 100€. And that's for a simple shop selling magazines, books, gum,...cigarettes or alcohol were not even part of our offering, that was a seperate store.

And just for reference: the most recent annual accounts of Belgian Sky Shops (available at www.nbb.be) show that they turn over no less than 129,7m€ achieving an EBIT of 16,8m€

[BRU]

Why is everybody so focused only on the rental of the shops ?

BRU airport does a lot of surveys amongst passangers, and this tunnel is really giving a negative perception. So we should be happy that the airport is willing to invest more in the "experience for the passengers" at the airport. This will generate more revenue in the long term if more passengers consider BRU to be a nice transit hub in the star alliance network. Business cases also show that depending on the environment and experience, passengers spent more or less money at an airport.

On top of this, do not forget that next to rental revenues the airport also generates revenues on what each passenger spents at an airport. It is a private company financed with private money, so there is a reason why they invest money in this building.

[Established02]

connector

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

I must say the construction work is really going fast. As a passenger and frequent traveler I am looking forward to it.

However, it always amazes me how standardized these terminals and shopping areas are. It is a bit like the hotel chains. They all look the same, whether you are in Singapore, San Francisco, Brussels, ...

Cheers,
Danny

[DannyVDB]

Maybe it is because of the angle of the picture, but it seems like the connector will come a little further than pier A: i.e., the pillars you can see are not in line with the pie A building, or am I wrong in this?
Danny