Okay... Lille will be a base then..whatever... planes will be retract like in other airports happend,where I don't know just guessed... everybody knows the basic of what happens when someone gets into FR pockets...
Based planes will be dropped for a few months, or bases will be closed, in CRL some planes will be reshuffeled, I can imagine some planes will be get out of CRL in winter as a reaction, but they don't say then that they will park some more planes like 80 in last winter
You get the point.. maybe they can pay belgocontrol with that money
I don't like it either but so it goes...
CXB
2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Moderator: Latest news team
- cathay belgium
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Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
New types flown 2022.. A339
- tolipanebas
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Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
It's official now: a new fee of 3 euro on all passengers from CRL (and LGG) to reduce the budget deficit of Wallonia. MOL can already start whining about it.
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Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Now that the door has been opened, the danger is that the others - Federal, Flemish region - will want to go the same way ...
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Others have done it already: UK, Austria, etc.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
- cathay belgium
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Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Hi,
Don't they know FR rules ?
If FR would differ to other german,dutch,french bases, what would be the impact ?
Altough I don't agree with FR view on some things this can't without impact.
A 3,- eur tax a flight,means 6 euros return whats already a very big part of the FR ticket...
Don't know if the Walloons know that there is something like MST in the neighbourhood desperate waiting for something to happen like this ..
The Dutch and the germon government did the same but in the end.. they cancelled it again..
So will see what will happen, hope the big investments in CRL aren't wasted ...
Guess next year the Flemish will introduce a similar thing on F/C and Y tickets in BRU...
It was mentioned before, and 3 billion search for DiRupo in 2014 will lead to this..
Maybe DeWever as an aviation-SV lover - can keep things away.. but don't bet on this..
the door is open now..
Once more a hobby like aviation is again a bit more expensive then it already is...
Luckily I don't smoke...
CXB
Don't they know FR rules ?
If FR would differ to other german,dutch,french bases, what would be the impact ?
Altough I don't agree with FR view on some things this can't without impact.
A 3,- eur tax a flight,means 6 euros return whats already a very big part of the FR ticket...
Don't know if the Walloons know that there is something like MST in the neighbourhood desperate waiting for something to happen like this ..
The Dutch and the germon government did the same but in the end.. they cancelled it again..
So will see what will happen, hope the big investments in CRL aren't wasted ...
Guess next year the Flemish will introduce a similar thing on F/C and Y tickets in BRU...
It was mentioned before, and 3 billion search for DiRupo in 2014 will lead to this..
Maybe DeWever as an aviation-SV lover - can keep things away.. but don't bet on this..
the door is open now..
Once more a hobby like aviation is again a bit more expensive then it already is...
Luckily I don't smoke...
CXB
New types flown 2022.. A339
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
"a new fee of 3 euro on all passengers from CRL (and LGG) to reduce the budget deficit of Wallonia"
Pfff what a stupid desicion, the reaction will be that there will be less flight from CRL and so less job. And the PAX will have to go from BRU so more job in Brussels Airport area (not really french-speaker-friendly). This is really the way they want to reduce the deficit of Wallonia? Well done...
However in another way, it will not be bad for SN...
Waiting for what will happen now...
Pfff what a stupid desicion, the reaction will be that there will be less flight from CRL and so less job. And the PAX will have to go from BRU so more job in Brussels Airport area (not really french-speaker-friendly). This is really the way they want to reduce the deficit of Wallonia? Well done...
However in another way, it will not be bad for SN...
Waiting for what will happen now...
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
OAG just uses the flightlog data? no need for IATA dataRoMax wrote:Whahaha, I think OAG lacks some data on some LCC's or something like that (which is not to be bad about LCC's, not at all, it's simply a fact that many leading organisations lack data on LCC's because they are often not cooperating with them, even IATA).
100% of all flights departing and arriving within 15 minutes of their shedule, no way.
- cathay belgium
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Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Hi,
Don't think that BRU airport is hostile to French speakers or how must we understand this sentence ?
A friend of my who don't speak french and working as a luggage handler complains that everybody speaks french overthere..
Brussels Airport Area.. Brussels ? is not so dutch-friendly either..
But won't start this again, I try to adapt myself as a belgian and try my french/english/dutch.. as long as they understand me
CXB
??crew1990 wrote: Brussels Airport area (not really french-speaker-friendly)
Don't think that BRU airport is hostile to French speakers or how must we understand this sentence ?
A friend of my who don't speak french and working as a luggage handler complains that everybody speaks french overthere..
Brussels Airport Area.. Brussels ? is not so dutch-friendly either..
But won't start this again, I try to adapt myself as a belgian and try my french/english/dutch.. as long as they understand me
CXB
New types flown 2022.. A339
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Bagage handler, cleaming staff ok, but the job with a contact direct with costumer like check-in agent, crew etc is something else. Anyway there is not the question, the problem is that they put this taxe to reduce the deficit of the wallonia, but the only thing they will do is transfering the job that they had in CRL out of Wallonia.
- cathay belgium
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Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Make that out of Belgium..crew1990 wrote:thing they will do is transfering the job that they had in CRL out of Wallonia.
Don't see a Flemish/Brussels airport to take over this role of LCC-airport ..
Besides.. don't think they gonna pay belgocontrol of that.. and they give subsidies to create jobs that they ask back in another way, strange politicians ...
CXB
New types flown 2022.. A339
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
I don't think that this will be a problem for FR nor the pax flying out of CRL. 3 euro is reasonable.
This way, one can say that Wallonia subsidises CRL, and CRL pays it back.
Additionally, don't expect Mr. Mol to just take it as it is... we know how vocal he is when regional or national governments try to increase taxes... Mol packs his planes and moves them elsewhere.
I use EIN and Weeze as much as CRL on a combination of schedule and fares to my Southern destinations. So I don't worry. The day that FR will be more expensive than another airline, is the day that I will fly that other airline, for as far as it's not on my personal blacklist.
Jobs won't be affected too much as long as FR doesn't cut 50% in CRL.
Even a 20% cut will barely see a decline in occupation. Also, aviation the way it's done by FR does not really add a lot of jobs, considering how they decrease occupation elsewhere (in BRU for instance). FR has no maintenance facility at CRL, no catering facility, no headquarters, no sales staff, etc...
I think that job creation money is better spent in manpower-intensive sectors such as a large European-scale cutting-edge medical facilities which focus on R&D and teaching. Large hospitals with famous specialties attract aviation and other traffic too. Europe needs such a facility, the first one to do it will take the cake.
Healthcare being about the only manpower-intensive industry that you can't ship to China or India (as opposed to manufacturing and IT), with European harmonisation of healthcare administration more or less in place, it's a winners takes all proposition.
Hospitals also generate a lot of "VFR" traffic for aviation.
Belgium has the unique possibility to do this thanks to its population's multi-language skills.
This way, one can say that Wallonia subsidises CRL, and CRL pays it back.
Additionally, don't expect Mr. Mol to just take it as it is... we know how vocal he is when regional or national governments try to increase taxes... Mol packs his planes and moves them elsewhere.
I use EIN and Weeze as much as CRL on a combination of schedule and fares to my Southern destinations. So I don't worry. The day that FR will be more expensive than another airline, is the day that I will fly that other airline, for as far as it's not on my personal blacklist.
Jobs won't be affected too much as long as FR doesn't cut 50% in CRL.
Even a 20% cut will barely see a decline in occupation. Also, aviation the way it's done by FR does not really add a lot of jobs, considering how they decrease occupation elsewhere (in BRU for instance). FR has no maintenance facility at CRL, no catering facility, no headquarters, no sales staff, etc...
I think that job creation money is better spent in manpower-intensive sectors such as a large European-scale cutting-edge medical facilities which focus on R&D and teaching. Large hospitals with famous specialties attract aviation and other traffic too. Europe needs such a facility, the first one to do it will take the cake.
Healthcare being about the only manpower-intensive industry that you can't ship to China or India (as opposed to manufacturing and IT), with European harmonisation of healthcare administration more or less in place, it's a winners takes all proposition.
Hospitals also generate a lot of "VFR" traffic for aviation.
Belgium has the unique possibility to do this thanks to its population's multi-language skills.
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
MOL will act like for MRS,leave some planes and then comme back,eventhough MRS did never regain his former base(but there is a labour trial pending between the French social security and FR).But CRL is not MRS,CRL is THE biggest money maker of FR on the continent and his third base after London and Dublin if I'm not wrong?
CRL is now the nr 3 or 4 LCC airport in the World(if not wrong again),which means that if FR wants to take the risk to leave,someone else will be very happy to take some or almost all FR routes over.Even Jetairfly and Wizzair could even be interested by some of them?As we know now that they are making money.If FR leaves CRL for a 3 euros tax,it will even less relocate to BRU for a much more expensive one,and I'm sure SN will take care of the fact that FR will receive no 'special welcome fare'...(lol).
Let's wait and see.
It seems according to my source that this stupidity is once again a brilliant idea of Ecolo(walloon groen)...usually the Minister in charge(Antoine cdh)is a good supporter of CRL/LGG and even of MOL.It is for sure not his own idea.But in a coalition gov. you need to make some concessions I guess?
I also consider that the number of real jobs generated by FR(pure FR staff IS VERY VERY SMALL if any?).
The airport authority in CRL has à good 600 employees but it is very difficult to count how many indirect jobs have been created ?..(for the shops,taxis,hotels,bus services etc..)Usually politicians of all parties exagerate those numbers.
2 links in French
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... 38488a1cbe
http://www.tourmag.com/Le-low-cost-elim ... 60646.html
CRL is now the nr 3 or 4 LCC airport in the World(if not wrong again),which means that if FR wants to take the risk to leave,someone else will be very happy to take some or almost all FR routes over.Even Jetairfly and Wizzair could even be interested by some of them?As we know now that they are making money.If FR leaves CRL for a 3 euros tax,it will even less relocate to BRU for a much more expensive one,and I'm sure SN will take care of the fact that FR will receive no 'special welcome fare'...(lol).
Let's wait and see.
It seems according to my source that this stupidity is once again a brilliant idea of Ecolo(walloon groen)...usually the Minister in charge(Antoine cdh)is a good supporter of CRL/LGG and even of MOL.It is for sure not his own idea.But in a coalition gov. you need to make some concessions I guess?
I also consider that the number of real jobs generated by FR(pure FR staff IS VERY VERY SMALL if any?).
The airport authority in CRL has à good 600 employees but it is very difficult to count how many indirect jobs have been created ?..(for the shops,taxis,hotels,bus services etc..)Usually politicians of all parties exagerate those numbers.
2 links in French
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... 38488a1cbe
http://www.tourmag.com/Le-low-cost-elim ... 60646.html
Last edited by crlhub on 17 Jul 2013, 12:50, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
yes indeed this 3€ tax is just silly, risky when one knows MOL is always leaving airports with extra taxes
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Explain me how MOL would make less money if pax have to pay 3euro more ?
Its just like increasing the parking cost or the toilet entrance, no impact for FR.
There is way too much sick wishfull thinking from extremists on this forum.
Its just like increasing the parking cost or the toilet entrance, no impact for FR.
There is way too much sick wishfull thinking from extremists on this forum.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Excuse me for laughing CRL will have a few planes less in winter ... like every year .... for the last 4 years. Maybe get your facts right first. CRL is amongst, if not THE, highest income base in the whole network. There might be a few changes, but don't expect too many.cathay belgium wrote:Okay... Lille will be a base then..whatever... planes will be retract like in other airports happend,where I don't know just guessed... everybody knows the basic of what happens when someone gets into FR pockets...
Based planes will be dropped for a few months, or bases will be closed, in CRL some planes will be reshuffeled, I can imagine some planes will be get out of CRL in winter as a reaction, but they don't say then that they will park some more planes like 80 in last winter
You get the point.. maybe they can pay belgocontrol with that money
I don't like it either but so it goes...
CXB
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
No, CRL is the number 2 base, it's bigger that Dublin, much more destinations.crlhub wrote:MOL will act like for MRS,leave some planes and then comme back,eventhough MRS did never regain his former base(but there is a labour trial pending between the French social security and FR).But CRL is not MRS,CRL is THE biggest money maker of FR on the continent and his third base after London and Dublin if I'm not wrong?
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Just one thought: an enquiry by BSCA in May 2012 showed that 47% of the Belgian passengers at Charleroi are from Flanders, 32% from Wallonia and 21% from Brussels Capital Region…
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
IN Germany they still have this tax : 40€ on long-haul flight, 8€ on short ones.cathay belgium wrote:Hi,
Don't they know FR rules ?
If FR would differ to other german,dutch,french bases, what would be the impact ?
Altough I don't agree with FR view on some things this can't without impact.
A 3,- eur tax a flight,means 6 euros return whats already a very big part of the FR ticket...
Don't know if the Walloons know that there is something like MST in the neighbourhood desperate waiting for something to happen like this ..
The Dutch and the germon government did the same but in the end.. they cancelled it again..
So will see what will happen, hope the big investments in CRL aren't wasted ...
Guess next year the Flemish will introduce a similar thing on F/C and Y tickets in BRU...
It was mentioned before, and 3 billion search for DiRupo in 2014 will lead to this..
Maybe DeWever as an aviation-SV lover - can keep things away.. but don't bet on this..
the door is open now..
Once more a hobby like aviation is again a bit more expensive then it already is...
Luckily I don't smoke...
CXB
Re: 2013 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news
Official Ryanair reaction:
RYANAIR TO CUT CHARLEROI TRAFFIC BY 17% IF
WALLONIAN GOVT INTRODUCE E3 TRAVEL TAX
1M PASSENGERS & 1,000 JOBS AT RISK AT CHARLEROI
Ryanair, Europe's only ultra-low cost carrier (ULCC), today (17 Jul) warned it will be forced to cut its Brussels Charleroi traffic by 17% if the Wallonian Govt proceeds with plans to introduce a E3 travel tax, which will result in the loss of over 1m passengers p.a. and 1,000* jobs at Charleroi Airport.
Ryanair, the largest airline in Wallonia, said the planned E3 tax (due for introduction on 1st Jan 2014 if passed by the Belgian Govt) would cause the same level of damage that similar taxes have done in other EU countries, including Ireland, where passenger numbers at Irish airports have fallen by over 24%, from 30m p.a. in 2007 to less than 23m in 2012.
The Belgian Govt scrapped plans for a similar tax in 2008 and since then Ryanair's traffic at Brussels Charleroi has more than doubled, from 2.5m to over 6m passengers in 2013. A passenger tax introduced in the Netherlands in 2008 was scrapped by the Dutch Government in 2009 after it cost them over E1bn in lost revenue, as passengers switched to cheaper airports in neighbouring countries. Denmark has also scrapped its passenger tax and subsequently returned to growth.
Ryanair warned the planned tax will inevitably lead to huge traffic and job cuts at Charleroi, as passengers will now avoid Wallonia and switch to Zaventem instead. Ryanair has written to the Wallonian Government seeking an urgent meeting.
Ryanair's Robin Kiely said:
"Ryanair will cut its traffic at Brussels Charleroi by at least 17% should this self-destructive E3 travel tax be introduced. This will cause over 1 million Ryanair passengers and at least 1,000* local jobs to be lost at Charleroi in 2014.
This tax will also make Wallonia uncompetitive and will result in passengers switching to other, cheaper airports. Studies from across Europe have clearly demonstrated the damage caused to traffic and jobs by passenger taxes, especially in Germany, Ireland and the UK, and we are calling on both the Wallonian and Belgian Governments to scrap these plans or risk irrevocably damaging traffic and jobs.
Other EU countries have returned to growth by scrapping tourist taxes and cutting airport charges, in some cases to zero, and it is insane for Wallonia to shoot itself and Charleroi in the foot by ignoring these trends."
* ACI research confirms up to 1,000 'on-site' jobs are sustained at international airports for every 1m passengers