Which A330 next for Brussels Airlines?

[tolipanebas]

For those who like to look around for future additions to the fleet next year,
maybe have a look for A319 and A320 too...

[Atlantis]

For those who like to look around for future additions to the fleet next year,
maybe have a look for A319 and A320 too...

One A320 was already for sure I think. If they would add more of those A319/320 would be nice. Will they be deployed then on excisting Avro 100 routes or maybe additional routes?

Is there already more known about long haul. Will it be only 1 A330 or maybe 2?

[convair]

For those who like to look around for future additions to the fleet next year,
maybe have a look for A319 and A320 too...

Of course it would be nice to see a few more A319s and A320s joining SN's fleet. However they urgently need l/h aircraft as the A330s seem to be struggling again.

And SN seems to have drastically reduced its AFI offer well before the winter season.

[CTBke]

first of all they need an investment to add an additional A330

[B.Inventive]

For now it seems the next A330 is of the table... I suppose someone in the company is shareholder at HiFly because at the rate we are paying them right now they'll be rich...
FFS b.air get your act together....

[CTBke]

Hifly is definitely earning good money now ... becuase they provide the planes they have .. it's never the same .. can be from A310, A330, A340-600 which has over capacity and can't land at every African destination.. so time for SN to look for a decent replacement of their old A330 fleet ...

[Flanker2]

I know of good source that SN is very lean on spares for the A330. This saves them money as keeping spares inventories can be very costly in blocked capital. However, it also costs them more money in the form of cancellations and delays, but also image.
I still don't understand why they don't cooperate closer with Lufthansa Technik to form a combined spares store in Brussels. Ok, technically and administratively it wouldn't be easy to manage, but it would also resolve many issues while also maintaining a reliable spares store, instead of having to AOG them every time.

So now the A330's are off the table? What does this mean exactly? Are they struggling worse than anticipated?
I know for sure that September-October were strong months for businesses in and around Brussels. But airlines plan months ahead, and maybe the previous optimism about September-October is now fading away into the pessimism of the months laying ahead, which aren't as promising?
Or are there other reasons for it?

I think that SN MUST use the opportunity presented by the 2014 world cup in Brazil to add an A333. It's 45 days of super high-yield traffic, followed by the rest of the summer, which is higher yielding depending on the destinations and ideal to launch a new route. It also generates a significant marketing effect for the company to be the carrier of choice of the national team.

As far as I'm concerned, it would be a good opportunity to just continue Brazil operations for instance by combining GRU with GIG. The world cup would serve as the ideal marketing foothold to launch the routes.

Operationally, the routes would be ideal for 1 A332, but I would add an A333 for Africa and take an A332 out of Africa to use it in Brazil.

It's justified and recent history supports it: http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/e ... mba-103061

Swiss is also in GIG and GRU, but let's all remind ourselves that TAM is switching to OW, which creates a gap for Star Alliance in markets like London, but also all the other North-European (allbeit lower-yielding) connecting markets.

I think that SN can succeed in Brazil. It's not hard numbers, but a good gut feeling based on the total market demand.

[EBAW_flyer]

Does anybody have at least some information?
When the last 330 arrived, the plan was 1 end 2013 and another before summer 2014.
How many are coming before summer 2014? 1,2,none?
And apparently it's not always Hifly, today it was Euroatlantic with a B777-200ER.

[CTBke]

Does anybody have at least some information?
When the last 330 arrived, the plan was 1 end 2013 and another before summer 2014.
How many are coming before summer 2014? 1,2,none?
And apparently it's not always Hifly, today it was Euroatlantic with a B777-200ER.

It depends, but it's one of tbe three Portugese operators depending on the available aircraft

[RoMax]

The only thing I see which is off the table is a possible acceleration of the previous planned expansion, as Jet Airways doesn't (partly) leave Brussels this winter after all. Atlantic++ expansion/developments in Brussels are highly dependent on the Jet Airways case.

And about Africa, yes they should expand, but not at any cost. Dumping capacity is not going to help when you ruin your yields with it and the Gulf carriers will always win when talking about capacity.

And SN seems to have drastically reduced its AFI offer well before the winter season.

Just the normal reductions. There is a big peak in the summer (which is already past by now) and a much smaller winter peak. In between those periods there are reductions. But comming winter will see more capacity to Africa than last year (like on the Douala/Yaounde route).

[B.Inventive]

Sorry but this is not about increasing capacity. It is about realising your savings on low leasing costs are backfiring on you due high mx costs (direct and indirect)
Either you change your entire fleet, which they are not really keen on doing,
or you add redundancy in your fleet.

The way this is going I can't understand why we put in a new cabin in the first place. a high percentage of the high yield pax will not even see it... Great to know you pucker up a lot of money to be welcomed by portuguese folks ....
(nothing againts those companies but lets be realistic, they don't have the same service as b.air, so do not represent the value you bought at b.air)

[Atlantis]

Hmm not sure where to place it but found an article of today that AF is going to increase their capacity to Africa during winter 13-14 with 8,5%. Some are of course non SN destinations but others are.

Difficult excercise. To add an A330 or not. If yes, where to put it: North-America or Africa?
Africa should be I think. They can use their American partners as feeder via BRU to Africa and they have already their own two flights to the US.

http://www.atn.aero/article.pl?mcateg=&id=46275


Sourse: air transport news

[sn26567]

Hmm not sure where to place it but found an article of today that AF is going to increase their capacity to Africa during winter 13-14 with 8,5%.

It was here on Luchtzak a few hours ago: viewtopic.php?p=287880#p287880
And sister company KLM is also consolidating its African operations, most notably by going daily to Kigali and Entebbe.

viewtopic.php?p=287881#p287881

The African market is becoming less and less a Brussels Airlines garden...

[nordikcam]

Question is : is there an A330 in the pipeline ? Which one could it be and when will it be in service ?

[CTBke]

no as there is no budget for it at the moment

[Air Key West]

If not one single shareholder (including LH) is prepared today to invest in the profitable activities of the company, all can be held responsible for the closure of the airline and the job losses it will imply. With Christoph Franz leaving LH, we can expect that LH will not make any move regarding b.air until a new CEO takes office at LH. Belgian shareholders apparently don't care (or prove me otherwise). Somehow it reminds me of the Sabena/Swissair scenario. Belgian shareholders count on LH which actually doesn't give a damn (anymore). Wake up, Belgian business world !!!

[Air Key West]

Since this is a discussion forum with its share of speculation and assumptions : here comes the killer question : if LH puts its 45% share in b.air up for sale in 2014, who will/might buy it and take a stake in the airline (any airline) or acquire it entirely (any EU airline) ?
(my guess is LH will want to get rid of b.air ; it's only a gut feeling ; haven't got anything concrete to back up my feeling).

[RoMax]

(my guess is LH will want to get rid of b.air ; it's only a gut feeling ; haven't got anything concrete to back up my feeling).

There is no sense in pulling back from SN, not yet, after investing 100 million less then a year ago (yes I know it's a loan, but not a loan in the idea of SN paying it back one to one). And there is no sign yet of LH holding back on the integration of SN in the whole group (this year they said multiple times their first priority is to continue integrating Swiss, Austrian AND SN before looking at new investments). Most recently, SN and LX finally streamlined their Nairobi shedules, as from this winter SN will operate on days -2-4--7 while LX will operate 1-3-56.

As for now, there is no reason yet for LH to pull back, unless 2014 turns out to become a big disaster, contrary to the current plans.
As for an extra A330. Of course there is no money, SN has no money for anything. But fleet developments are crucial INVESTMENTS and that may mean SN has to use once again a part of the 100 million of LH (they used a big part at the end of 2012 and then said they would try not to use the rest during 2013) or get their money from somwhere else. But saying SN will not add another A330 because they don't have the money for it...they didn't have the money to add one this year either, still they did, because they need it and they'll need it next year as well.

[sean1982]

The A330 is the backbone of SN, their long haul network is their bread and butter. Not investing in growing the long haul fleet would the biggest mistake ever. I'm sure if their long haul network grows they will be able to make the European operations profitable as well in the future feeding into BRU for connecting on the long haul. Hopefully somebody will wake up and smell the coffee.

[convair]

Couldn't say it better, sean!