Korongo Airlines: THE END

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cathay belgium
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,
MR_Boeing wrote:The BAe aircraft are owned by SN, if they are grounded like they were since 2008 or flying back-up flights, that doesn't matter I would say.
Mr Boeing that indeed what I meant to say..
An paid plane which don't fly don't cost money but don't make money indeed !
But a back-up plane which got a new interior,new livery, need to fly intra-continental for maintenance, pilots who's cost a lot more money over there, because they need to live in very hard and expensive place... do cost money and this isn't free... ! This must all be paid continously AND before...
MR_Boeing wrote:But did you already see ticket prices of Korongo? When they started they had a 'promotion' fare of what 399 or 499 euro, don't remember exactly, but the bottom line is the same, that's quite some money for a route FBM-FIH. You can fly from Europe to New York for such prices.
I assume Korongo doesn't need a loadfactor of let's say 70% to break-even on their flights.
Ticketprices don't mean a thing, one word : Ryanair ! or two : SN - european..
It's all about LF as anywhere else..
People need to fly, so good loadfactors indeed, but did any of us saw some facts !
What's really going on over there ? Does anybody real know this.. good following pax view,SN view,shareholders view..

450 euro to fly such a 'easy' route is good regarding fuel, but flying isn't it all..promotion,catering,luggage,..
maybe this isn't that pricey all over there but what can a Korongo expect flying for 450 euro's,kLight or kFlex? :?
Does anybody know what they can expect ?
MR_Boeing wrote:Europe is easy to operate on the operational side, but a disaster looking at the financial side. Congo can be a financial gold mine for SN/Korongo, but is operationally a very difficult market.
I do believe it can be a Goldmine but let's face facts.. free planes don't exist,.. they cost when they fly ..
so WHEN will Korongo be break-even,that's was my question.
This in the light that Korongo is a daughter of SN and the mother is struggling to survive and her other children will suffer over here next summer..
Maybe it's a hard statement I make here, but what I want to say,.. is anybody over here who knows what's real going on over there ?
I know they believe in the project,the next 737 proves this,.. but with the situation of SN today..

Seeing forward for some reactions ( no FR point / SN bashing over here please ;) ,not my view on this )

CX-B
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E140-E190E2

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RoMax
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by RoMax »

cathay belgium wrote:]

Ticketprices don't mean a thing, one word : Ryanair ! or two : SN - european..
It's all about LF as anywhere else..
People need to fly, so good loadfactors indeed, but did any of us saw some facts !
What's really going on over there ? Does anybody real know this.. good following pax view,SN view,shareholders view..

450 euro to fly such a 'easy' route is good regarding fuel, but flying isn't it all..promotion,catering,luggage,..
maybe this isn't that pricey all over there but what can a Korongo expect flying for 450 euro's,kLight or kFlex? :?
It's actually the other way around: ticketprices mean everything, LF don't mean a thing... You can have an almost empty airplane, but with the pax on board paying high prices, you can still make money. While you can have full aircraft without making any money.
People need to fly in Congo to move fast between the big cities, tough the offer is limited (or let's say: the reliable offer is limited) => high ticket prices are the result.

But ok, I know the other costs (around the operation itself, which in itself MAY be highly profitable) are quite big. The initial investment for the small airline was already quite big. But again, launching a new airline is not a question of "will we be profitable within a few months", it's a long term investment. It can take a lot of years before SN gets a real return on investment. It's useless to speculate now if the airline was worth the investment...

Btw, I can assume the biggest advantage SN currently has from the Korongo operations is that SN can now offer smooth connections to FBM (3 weekly). I believe SN even said this themself, the amount of pax of the BRU-FIH flights, flying on to FBM is already high and still increasing every day.

I believe Korongo is still too small to make profit as a whole, the individual operations may be profitable, but the overhead costs are probably too high compared to the size of the airline. But that's normal for a new airline (especially in a difficult market like Congo). You really have to see the long term vision of this project...

cnc
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by cnc »

cathay belgium wrote:Hi,

An paid plane which don't fly don't cost money but don't make money indeed !
nonsense! every a/c on the ground cost money

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tolipanebas
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by tolipanebas »

cathay belgium wrote:But a back-up plane which got a new interior,new livery, need to fly intra-continental for maintenance, pilots who's cost a lot more money over there, because they need to live in very hard and expensive place... do cost money and this isn't free... ! This must all be paid continously AND before...
As said before, these planes are ment not just as back up, but also for regional routes like e.g. Kolwesi.
At present there aren't any such routes yet (other than MJM - soon) but give them some time to build their network; this is the RDC we're talking about, remember?

It should be evident even to people who have no clue whatsoever as to what Central African operations truely mean that SN basically need to rebuild the entire airport infrastructure from scratch before they can safely operate on any route they want to fly on, given they operate under EU-OPS and that such things happen to take time, especially there.

If you think of the SN operations at FBM as just a simple second base of theirs next to their homebase, then you are not going to understand much of what you see happening at Korongo indeed: setting up domestic flights from FBM is not the same as Ryanair opening another base in Europe and it requires a completely different way of working, which many people are indeed not very familiar with. If you haven't been to the RDC yourself to see it, there's just no explaining really: it's simply unbelievable.
cathay belgium wrote:what can a Korongo expect flying for 450 euro's,kLight or kFlex? :?
Does anybody know what they can expect ?
I've linked to a very nice trip report of a Korongo flight some time ago:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=42315&start=560#p268094
if you are interested in their on board product and what a real Korongo flight is all about, I suggest you read it through: many of the product questions you ask, have in fact been answered in the past already, and can be seen in this rare trip report as well as giving a glimpse on some of the very practical issues flying in the RDC do bring about...

Enjoy!

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cathay belgium
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,
Incredible I missed this TR, thx...
CXB
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E140-E190E2

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Commercial agreement between Fly Congo et CAA
Fly Congo et CAA signent un accord commercial et technique

http://www.mediacongo.net/show.asp?doc=24497

et aussi:

http://economie.jeuneafrique.com/dossie ... shasa.html

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tolipanebas
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by tolipanebas »

Meanwhile, Korongo has operated its first flights to MJM today, by making stops on their FBM-FIH route on both ways.

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tolipanebas
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by tolipanebas »

The website of Korongo now features an article about their first flight to MJM, including some pictures.

You can read it (in French) at: http://flykorongo.com/2012/11/04/mbuji- ... -escale-2/

liege-bierset
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by liege-bierset »

tolipanebas wrote:The website of Korongo now features an article about their first flight to MJM, including some pictures.

You can read it (in French) at: http://flykorongo.com/2012/11/04/mbuji- ... -escale-2/
"Korongolisé" :shock: Stupid neologism !

spagiola
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by spagiola »

BAe 146 ex OO-MJE left today for Canada as N192DD, so will obviously not return to DRC.

Does anyone know whether OO-DJJ has been at all active in DRC? The current Korongo schedule shows all flights being operated by their 737.

Stefano

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RoMax
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by RoMax »

spagiola wrote:BAe 146 ex OO-MJE left today for Canada as N192DD, so will obviously not return to DRC.

Does anyone know whether OO-DJJ has been at all active in DRC? The current Korongo schedule shows all flights being operated by their 737.

Stefano
It has been said before that OO-DJJ is only in the RDC as back-up for the 737 as the current shedule only needs one aircraft.

appel
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by appel »

doe the pilots have 2 type ratings or do they have 146 pilots on standby constantly?

airazurxtror
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by airazurxtror »

RoMax wrote: the current shedule only needs one aircraft.
Korongo does not seem to expand very rapidly.
Is such an airline profitable ? was it so forecast when launched ?

(Bye bye and good luck to OO-MJE, which operated the first (or one of the first) AvGeeks trip(s) - to Prague, in March 2011)
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

Tomskii
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by Tomskii »

As far as I know Korongo is doing good on those routes because the Congolese upper class like to pay for flying safely, those tickets aren't really cheap as far as I know so :) (something that is one of the key values of Korongo)

convair
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by convair »

According to Skyliner, OO-DJJ is being ferried to BRU today for "sale to the USA". Any replacement back-up for OO-LTM?

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by Boeing767copilot »

The future does not look so brilliant for Korongo.
There are rumors (okay rumors :roll: ) that a final decision about Korongo will follow in the next few weeks. :(

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CTBke
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by CTBke »

based on ? people working there or just a little bird?
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sn26567
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by sn26567 »

Emergency landing of a Korongo plane at Loano

Please find hereunder the relation of a recent incident with OO-LTM, translated by me from the Congolese press. Take it for what it is, not for a faithful report by an experienced aviation journalist.

The Korongo Airlines Boeing 737 flying between Lubumbashi and Kinshasa made an emergency landing at the international airport of Loano on Sunday, Feb. 3, 2013, after nearly two hours in the air, plunging its passengers in a deep emotion.

According to witnesses including many Congolese officials, the flight ZC101 took off from Lubumbashi airport at 8:30 am and could not reach its cruising altitude 45 minutes later. The crew asked passengers not to panic when listening to a strange noise; however, it announced that it was dropping the landing gear to lighten the aircraft.

The explanation did not convince, as testified by a journalist present on board. According to him, after over an hour of flight, the Boeing 737 is expected to reach or exceed 6,000 feet, but passengers could see the landscape again. "The landscape and the runways were still visible ... ", he said. The plane was losing altitude, the pilot began manoeuvring, continuing to fly in these conditions.

Faced with this situation, plan B would mean flying back to Lubumbashi, with the option to burn a substantial amount of fuel before landing. The operation took place over the Loano and took an hour in the air. The plane finally landed in emergency on the runway of Loano at 11:00 after intense moments of fear. The Régie des Voies Aériennes (RVA) has established a safety zone on the ground, and positioned fire trucks around the plane.

Terrified passengers were traumatized and scrambled to get out and away from the doomed aircraft. Some have not even had time to collect their belongings or to ask for explanations from the company.

Meanwhile, the captain informed passengers that the next flight to Kinshasa was scheduled the next day, on 4 February.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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RoMax
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by RoMax »

Ok, OO-LTM made an emergency/cautionary landing. But the way the talk about the pax reaction...would want to see that before I believe it. Wouldn't be the first time Congolese press tries to make a big deal about a "small" thing related to Korongo or SN (or another foreign company). Ok, it may have been serious, but I can't conclude that from the Congolese press. That's like Indian press, but than much worse.
Btw, frequent flyers in Congo must be used to this kind of situations, no?

Btw, If I remember well, the national football team even choose for Korongo to go to the Africa Cup in Johannesburg (while FlyCongo also flies to JNB as far as I know). So apperently the confidence in Korongo isn't that bad.

spagiola
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Re: Korongo Airlines

Post by spagiola »

sn26567 wrote:.... it announced that it was dropping the landing gear to lighten the aircraft. ...
Brilliant thinking! But wouldn't that make landing somewhat awkward?

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