2008-2009 Liège Airport (LGG) latest news

[erasmus.student]

Thanks for the information Acid-drop! Now I have more clear ideas about LGG. I'll follow also the news because, as I said before, this forum is very interesting. Thank you again. Bye!

[Filou]

Acid-drop,
Unfortunately, you are selling LGG again as it is the best european cargo airport, which it isn't !!!
The poor student will believe you without questionning the reality.

No,LGG is not able to fit all types of aircraft as you said. The B747-800 is for example not able to be handled at LGG.Not to forget this is the future cargo aircraft they might have a problem. And the prolongation...hmmm;you're selling it as if it was done already...strange if you look at the story and the past.

And no, LGG is not attracting airlines from BRU or AMS as you said. It took/bought one single airline from both airports, and for the rest it takes the crap from elsewhere,where the same companies leave with hughe losses and open invoices.
So does it with old aircraft, with airlines to question their credibility, etc.

I can continue to objec to ANY single example you made, which I am not going to do as it is a pure loss of time. You have your idea, and the reality is far away from that.

I would have hoped the student would listen to at least all 3 airports, it would have given him a neutral idea,not a wrong and forced subjective idea...

Sad...very sad...

Dear student, please look at the reality, and do not listen to subjective sales-talks.

All of our Belgian cargo airports have positive and negative points, none of them is perfect, and none of them is bad.
The advantage of one is a disadvantage for the other, but in general they can be attractive for the target group they focus on.

Believe me, if LGG would be that good as Acid-drop told you, in the last 5 years at least 25 cargo airlines should have chosen for LGG, which unfortunately not even 5 did !!!

So please,listen to the real stories of all of them.

good luck !

[an-148]

absolutely unbelievable this guy

[erasmus.student]

To Filou:

yes of course I understand that LGG is not the best airport, in fact, one of my question to our guide was this: 'If LGG has the best geografical position in Europe and it's specialized in cargo, why it is just the 8th european airport in freight?' Of course I'll make some more research about other airports that are better positioned in the ranking and study why are better than LGG. When you make recommendations, you need to be critical, it's better than applauding how things are so well done...
Also when I'll find something interesting, I'll post it here Thanks

[LX-LGX]

Acid-drop,
Unfortunately, you are selling LGG again as it is the best European cargo airport, which it isn't ! The poor student will believe you without questionning the reality.

I agree with Filou. The way acid-drop is talking about LGG isn't normal anymore. But I've given up to react long time ago.

Erasmus-student, your question "... is the same regulations applied in other airports from Europe or worldwide ..." is very important. The answer from acid-drop is the official one: "not so many houses, walloon governement decided to buy many houses, sound proof others". Actually, the whole noise regulation (or the absense of it at LGG...) is the reason for the success of LGG. You really should investigate this in-dept!

Does it really matter if it's 100.000 or 10.000 people who hear noisy aircraft during night? No, once there is a reasonal number, it should be a valid argument. Why has the airport's history never been taken into consideration? Fact is that people living around LGG live there long before the airport was expanded, whilst the complaining people living around BRU are new inhabitants, European bureaucrats, nimby-people living in new houses, etc. And those who leave near BRU for decades just accept it (like in Buken, Kampenhout).

To put things straight: the same political parties who rule the Walloon government also rule the Brussels Capital Region government. They've voted totally different regulations for BRU and LGG, and this cannot be explained because there are less houses around LGG. Indeed: they've voted extremely strict noise regulations for BRU, but at the same time they've waived the night curfew for LGG. As a direct result, cargo companies are moving away from Brussels. With DHL, they've miscalculated, as DHL moved to Leipzig. But with TNT, they've hit the jackpot.

There is no night curfew at LGG. Not even mild noise restrictions. Hence the possibility for LGG to advert themselves as a 24h/24 airport. And meanwhile, the nimby's living within 10 kms from BRU win law suits at the Raad van State / Conseil D'Etat, based upon noise restrictions which actually are that strict that they should also ban trucks from driving on the highway around Brussels at night.

LGG wants to expand, indeed. But that is blocked for the moment, because mayors from communities not ruled by the above political parties object to it. Reason: their inhabitants will suffer from a 24h/24 cargo airport (Erasmus-student, call the Riemst Communal House).

Acid-drop will now surely reply that this is nonsense (quite normal for someone working at LGG). But do compare the night curfew for LGG's competitor cargo airports. Just one example: FRA has a total silence 23h00-05h00.

(when I'm referring to the Brussels Capital Region government, I'm not talking about the 2 ministers who belong to the 7% minority-language-protected happy few. We all know who is in charge at Brussels Capital Region, don't we?)

[Desert Rat]

Whether the airport is the best or not doesn't matter to me, the Airport is there to create jobs and participate in the economic life of a region...
Walloon gov is right to support their Airport infrastructure, it creates job and dynamism in a business where there was not soo many Walloon or french-speaking anymore...due to, you know what...
And for all the smart-ass wich are moaning, don't forget that BRU or even OST where fully subsidied at one stage as well...
So if you can do it on your sacred soil, so we....

[Acid-drop]

Unfortunately, you are selling LGG again as it is the best european cargo airport, which it isn't !!!
The poor student will believe you without questionning the reality.

I'm not selling it as the best airport, i'm saying facts. And facts show it's an interesting airport.

No,LGG is not able to fit all types of aircraft as you said. The B747-800 is for example not able to be handled at LGG.Not to forget this is the future cargo aircraft they might have a problem. And the prolongation...hmmm;you're selling it as if it was done already...strange if you look at the story and the past.

LGG can accept any aircraft that is flying today. Fact. We'll see about the future, I don't have a crystal ball that tells anything about their capacity to adapt for future aircrafts. But don't expect them to be stupid, if the 747-8 comes one day, they'll do the necessary.
The lenthening of the track is almost done. Fact.

And no, LGG is not attracting airlines from BRU or AMS as you said. It took/bought one single airline from both airports, and for the rest it takes the crap from elsewhere,where the same companies leave with hughe losses and open invoices.
So does it with old aircraft, with airlines to question their credibility, etc.

LGG has taken one airline from AMS and one from BRU. Fact.
LGG is also welcoming some "crapy" airlines as you call it ... probably because they have old noisy airplanes that are not welcome elsewhere. Is it bad ?

I would have hoped the student would listen to at least all 3 airports, it would have given him a neutral idea,not a wrong and forced subjective idea...

You missunderstood. The student never asked for a comparison of cargo airports, he asked for LGG info only. That's what I gave. Facts about LGG.

All of our Belgian cargo airports have positive and negative points, none of them is perfect, and none of them is bad.
The advantage of one is a disadvantage for the other, but in general they can be attractive for the target group they focus on.

Never said the opposite.

Believe me, if LGG would be that good as Acid-drop told you, in the last 5 years at least 25 cargo airlines should have chosen for LGG, which unfortunately not even 5 did !!!

Well, for an airports that was a potato field 10 years ago, reaching the top 10 in cargo and continuing a growth of almost 20% a year, that's what I call a sucess. But you can read number the way you want
It's clear that LGG can continue its growth, and it's clear it can reach a higher ranking. Just give time to time. Rome wasn't build in a day.


LX-LGX, About the noice problem, it's clear and very clear that you cannot compare noise regulation when you have a whole city of 1 million people suffering from the noice and in LGG only 250 houses, sound proofed, that decided to stay there instead of selling their house. LGG is just better located.

And btw, I don't work in LGG, i'm not even working in the aviation industry


Desert Rat, good conclusion too. I didn't want to get there because I want to get as neutral as possible but it's clear you're right. Some people don't seem to accept that Wallonia is having a great success ... Look how many people are trying to destroy LGG and CRL all the time.

[LX-LGX]

LX-LGX, About the noise problem, it's clear and very clear that you cannot compare noise regulation when you have a whole city of 1 million people suffering from the noise and in LGG only 250 houses, sound proofed, that decided to stay there instead of selling their house. LGG is just better located.

Why do you compare only 250 houses very close to LGG to all inhabitants from the whole Brussels Capital Region? Liège has 193.816 inhabitants (fgov 01/10/2009), and most of them live at about the same distance from the airport as in BRU. But yet, you compare 250 of them to all inhabitants from Brussels Region. The people from Awans, Bierset, Grâce-Hollogne "suffer" the same as those living in Brussels.

Why do you say "suffering from the noise"? Suffering from the noise is when a fully loaded 747-200 takes off, not when a "fully loaded" Avro-85 takes off. The "noise suffering" around BRU is one of the most exagerated complaints that has been created, resulting in the move of employment from BRU to LGG.

Let me give you a scoop. At the end of December 2009, BRU-airport will announce the official number of noise complaints for this year. BRU had 1,5 million compaints for 2008, but the number of cargo flights has dropped by 40% this year and the pax-flights by some 15%. But guess what? We're already at 3 million complaints now. And Miss Peggy C. from V. is not the record holder for complaints anymore: it's now someone who managed to send through 160.000 complaints during one week. He's sending these complaints through his computer, and all complaints are based upon the noise regulations from Brussels Capital Region. But the guy is living in .. La Hulpe.

And btw, I don't work in LGG, i'm not even working in the aviation industry

Must be politics then, the way you are promoting and defending LGG, ridiculizing other Belgian airports and defending a policy, aimed to move employment from Flanders to Wallonia.

Some people don't seem to accept that Wallonia is having a great success ... Look how many people are trying to destroy LGG and CRL all the time.

Nobody in the north has a problem if LGG and CRL would compete BRU with 'equal weapons', example with the same laws and regulations. I'm really looking forward to one Belgian law with the same noise regulations for all Belgian airports.

So it would really be great if Erasmus-student would find out WHY the same political parties handle different noise regulations for airports under their jurisdiction, and WHY trucks on the Brussels Ring, who are also above the severe noise limit, are not banned. And why trains, who are also above the noise limit, are not banned.

[Filou]

Congrats to many of the respondants. I'm very pleased to see "Real" answers about the real situation, and not about pure sales-peptalks. Pleased to see we are talking about equal weapons, about level playing field,about whom send complaints, etc.Because this is where it is all about too.

[Acid-drop]

LX-LGX, I was talking about the amound of people living inline of the tracks.
It's clear that there is a lot less people in Liège, and I have to admit that's by luck, but it's like that.
About "equal weapon", LGG had bought so many house, and soud proofed so many houses that it's an example. Only few places in the world took a decision like that, it was risky, it was something new, very modern approach, and that's why it's never gonna be "equal weapons".

Now, of course, an Avro is not a problem. I'm just saying that to receive noisy old freighter, it's clear which airport is the best solution. BRU is an airport in the middle of a city and must be as quiet as possible. I see a great pax future for BRU and also a very dark cargo future unless every cargo companies buy immediately very recent planes (not impossible but that's not gonna be 100% of the trafic). But on the other hand, LGG don't want to be the noisy trash of BRU, they want modern stuff too.
You know, for an american or a chineese, BRU or LGG is the same shit. They are 1h away, it's nothing.
Even FRA is close, and honestly, if I were them, I would choose FRA

Btw, i'm not politics either. I'm working in IT and I whish nothing bad to BRU. I don't wish to transfer any jogs from one region to another. In belgium you cannot "move" jobs ... people continue to live where they are and just drive a bit more. What I try to show here, is that this forum has very often a flemish point of view because 90% of the member are flemish. I'm not, so I can show you what other people see.
Desert Rat summarize it again.

[Acid-drop]

I don't like your tone when you talk about colonisation. You sound like some german guy in the 30's.
Do you think Liège people were so racist than you are when they welcomed the limburgers 50 years ago ?
On the other hand, I fully agree with you, there is a big problem in the schools of the south of the country, dutch is important in belgium, it should be learned as a prority. And yes, I believe anybody living in Flanders should learn the langage ! Those who don't should be ashamed.

On the other hand, BRU is the national airport, so it's not really in Flanders. Well, at least, it shouldn't be.
And don't forget BRU is also an international airport. When you go to Slovenia, you want to hear english, or at least an international langage like german. Same apply for brussels airport, dutch is kinda useless.

[sn26567]

May I remind of all of you that this is a thread about the latest news of Liège Airport, not about the use of languages in Belgium. I will not tolerate one more message that is not related to the topic.

[Acid-drop]

tonnage JAN-NOV : 426.748 tons
(last year at that time : 480.837 tons, so it's a decrease of 11.2%)
Source : http://www.liegeairport.com/liege-airpo ... go_014.htm

NOV '09 (52.883 tons) was better than NOV '08 (43.656 tons) and seems to be also the best month ever for LGG. (second best seems to be DEC '07 with 51.686 tons and thirst best MAR '08 with 50.536 tons)

[Depretair]

It seems that a 320 of TCW (OO-TCI) is in LGG for the moment.
Titles & logo removed from acft, some spotlights around.
Is there a special reason ?
Advertising ? Film ?

Thanks for the info.

Cheers

[Nevihta]

Yesterday at the "long cours" (restaurant in LGG airport), there was kind of a canteen with special staff...

[Acid-drop]

Yes, it's for a movie
read more in french: http://www.lesoir.be/regions/liege/2009 ... 2564.shtml

[Conti764]

Stop your bullshit man, you know what i'm talking about....the fact is that even if you speak dutch, when it comes to deal with HR and you are from Wallonia or Brussels it's not enough, and this is the truth...
This is racism, so don't try to demonstrate that nobody's in Wal or BXL doesn't speak dutch, even if you do, VL will be preferred because of racial reason...punt aan de lijn.
But fair enough, the message is well understood now in the south...look at CRL and LGG...Djuuu toch!!!

Desert Rat, it's not for the first time in these kind of discussions that you don't know what you're talking about. A large part of BRU airport staff is still french speaking, in certain functions at the airport the majority speaks french or at least the used language is french. I'm talking about cleaning, luggage, those guys who collect luggage carts, maintenance,...

Acid Drop, it doesn't matter where the airport is located. Newark f.e. is located in New Jersey while it's main market is New York City. BRU's main market is Brussels and Belgium in a whole. It is no problem the airport is located in Flanders, since it is a multilingual airport where English, the most important language, is spoken fluently by most of the service staff. Public transport of all regions is allowed at the airport and the Walloon government, unlike Flanders, even has an infodesk at arrivals level where tourists can easily get information about the region.

My apologies to the mods for going off topic again, but I am sick and tired of some member (Desert Rat) on this forum being given a podium to display his anger and racism against the Dutch speaking community in this counrty and the lies he tells about Brusssels Airport.

[Acid-drop]

About the movie, there is even a video from Liège local tv (so in french)
http://www.rtc.be/content/view/10017/443/

It just show how empty the pax terminal is
only a very few planes a day MOL, help us :p

[Desert Rat]

tonnage JAN-NOV : 426.748 tons
(last year at that time : 480.837 tons, so it's a decrease of 11.2%)
Source : http://www.liegeairport.com/liege-airpo ... go_014.htm

NOV '09 (52.883 tons) was better than NOV '08 (43.656 tons) and seems to be also the best month ever for LGG. (second best seems to be DEC '07 with 51.686 tons and thirst best MAR '08 with 50.536 tons)

Impressive, may be thank to the war in Iraq and Afganisthan, lot of cargo from Kalitta or Southern Air transit through LGG.

[Acid-drop]

Kalitta flying for Irak indeed.
But for southern air, almost all trafic is for Ethiopian. Exceptions happens, but are rather rare.
TNT is also flying a lot from/to Asia, this could explain.