Brussels Airport: air traffic control ATC on strike

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LX-LGX
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by LX-LGX »

RadarContact wrote:In the meantime the approach controller, who's working his twentyfifth day in a row, is thinking about his little daughter who kept him awake all night as she had a fever. She's not the only one who's ill. Three colleagues called in ill today, no wonder with this kind of weather. As a consequence there's just not enough staff today, so breaks are shortened or no longer existing. Thirty minutes to eat should be sufficient , including the ten minutes walk to and from the restaurant. Still eight aircraft in the holding and some more are on their way. If only this fog would lift. He's feeling tired. After this one only three days of duty and then his first day off. He hopes his daughter is feeling better by then. It's just a pity that he has to work ten days in a row after that day off. He wonders why nobody seems to be outraged about this situation. He has worked a few hours for free this year to attract attention, there's been a small strike and a few threats to go on strike but nobody seems to care. The only outcome was people outraged about holidays which started with a delay and companies losing money. He just hopes nothing happens due to a tired controller. Wait a minute, he's a tired controller. He's got to keep his focus. Still three days to go...
The problem with Belgian ATC management and/or board is that they allow people like you to work as ATC. You are a real danger because decisions from people like you -who clearly cannot handle stress- may kill people. You should advise your supervisor asap that you are unsuitable for the job - although technicall( (computerwise) qualified. Hence your nice salary. "Feeling tired", you say? Then please immediately call yourself off. I don't want to be guided by such an ATC. We need people who love the job and who accept that not every aspect from their job is sit back and relax, like unability to enjoy lunch at a restaurant at their work.

RadarContact wrote:The only outcome was people outraged about holidays which started with a delay and companies losing money. He just hopes nothing happens due to a tired controller. Wait a minute, he's a tired controller. He's got to keep his focus. Still three days to go...
If you're referring to me: I wasn't referring to my holiday and it was not about "a holiday starting with a delay": it was about a group of tourists who's overseas holiday is totally spoiled because your 2 hour strike turned out to be 4 hour delay for their add on flight, leaving them stuck internationally with a delay of 4 days. Because airlines don't upgrade them and airlines don't overbook them. Priority waitlisted, that's all they've got. As a result, they'

So next time you're want to cause sh.t, please announce it a few days in advance, thus giving touroperators time to limit the damage for tourists. Because, after all, they are the only ones paying our salaries. But then, you are probably so unionminded that you are unable to understand this.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by Atlantis »

luchtzak wrote:One of my facebook friends is stuck on a flight to BRU :?
The title is not 100% correct: also OST and CRL were hit.
LX-LGX wrote: thus giving touroperators time to limit the damage for tourists. Because, after all, they are the only ones paying our salaries. But then, you are probably so unionminded that you are unable to understand this.
Not only the touroperators but all pax. Many of them are business people or people who booked their ticket by their airline.

RadarContact
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by RadarContact »

To LX-LGX:
I really don't know how to reply to you, who is calling me and my colleagues overpaid criminals, real dangers, unable to cope with stress, even potential killers and who is defining our job as just sit back and relax. So I won't.

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zteven
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by zteven »

I think we should not underestimate the job
of an ATC! It must be very stressy sometimes
and doing this 25 days in a row? NOT ok.

An action was needed.

Greetz



Steven

LX-LGX
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by LX-LGX »

RadarContact wrote:To LX-LGX:
I really don't know how to reply to you, who is calling me and my colleagues overpaid criminals, real dangers, unable to cope with stress, even potential killers and who is defining our job as just sit back and relax. So I won't.
I haven't said that your colleagues are criminals. I've said that you, in the terrible state of mind that you (1 person) are, are unsuitable for the job. And if you do work while you are unable to handle minor stress situations like a sick child at home or not enough time for lunch, it is totally unacceptable.

I didn't said "overpaid": I've said that you have a nice salary, which includes some stress at work and which includes that lunch sometimes won't be possible in a restaurant.

"Management refuses to speak to us for 10 years", somebody else said. If this would indeed be the case, nobody would stay at such work place longer then a month. So let's be surious, shall we? We all know that the solution for these "terrible working conditions" will be a salary increase, extra holiday days, an extra Maaltijdcheque / Cheque Repas. Followed by the official announcement that, quote, "the board will engage some new ATC's as soon as possible". Statement that we are supposed to read as "confirming there was indeed a staff problem, so the strike was justified".
Atlantis wrote: Not only the touroperators but all pax. Many of them are business people or people who booked their ticket by their airline.
Indeed Atlantis, sorry, all pax were in problems last Friday. But I was advised about this particular group of tourists who will now go to South Africa without going on safari: the reason why they've spend over 3.000 euro p/p for their trip. And only few of them earn more then a ... Indeed.

Both tourists and business travellers have to pay for the tickets, and they don't qualify for free tickets, ID's or AD's, like most of us here do. The fact that passengers are used as hostage is scandalous.

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Zorba
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by Zorba »

http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 48-431.art

Plan for a new 24h strike somewhere next week. There was a meeting with the ministry of Transportation this morning, without result it seems (?)
Tot hier en verder

RadarContact
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by RadarContact »

Dear LX-LGX

I really want to know what your sources are? You should be careful with those though because you seem like a very credulous person to me. You even believe my little fictitious story. Even worse, you think it is about me. So, you find it necessary to attack me personally for the second time. Thank you for trying to leave my colleagues out of it this time, but I don't think they're not feeling talked to. I know every controller can recognise the situation I described. We can even understand your reaction. We are as appalled as you are. This should never be an existing situation in a safety related business as ours. But I'm really sorry to tell you that unfortunately it is. Forget about the non-existing daughter and the fog and the holding. I was just creating an atmosphere. But if you think that working twenty to thirty days in a row is not tiring, that an air traffic controller is as fit on his fifthteenth consecutive day as on his first, then I really want to know what your standards are. You must be some kind of super human being. May I advise you to apply for our job, we need people like you. It would do you good by the way: it seems like you need some time to sit back and relax. Maybe you finally shut up about this salary thing you are struggling with. Sorry, but you really think we are overpaid:

LX-LGX wrote:
Because a handful of very very well paid people want "better labour conditions" (read: a salary increase will do).
LX-LGX wrote:
Hence your nice salary.
LX-LGX wrote:
We all know that the solution for these "terrible working conditions" will be a salary increase, extra holiday days, an extra Maaltijdcheque / Cheque Repas.
By the way, your last saying is just crap. We're not demanding this at all! So check your sources.

LX-LGX wrote:
Taking innocent people hostage is a serious crime in Belgium, aggravating the sentence.

Only unions get away with it. Every time again.

Shame on them, and all those who support this criminal act.
This is calling us criminals! Glad you didn't try to deny the fact that you're calling us real dangers, people unable to handle stress and potential killers. Otherwise I would still be busy to use the copy and paste
functions of my computer.

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by b720 »

regardless of who is right and who is wrong, the strike should have been announced earlier..days in advance as to give passengers enough time to reschedule.. the way the strike took place was obvious, punishing the passenger.. we need to grow out of the mentality of taking the consumer for granted in this country.

EBAW_flyer
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by EBAW_flyer »

regardless of who is right and who is wrong, the strike should have been announced earlier..days in advance as to give passengers enough time to reschedule.. the way the strike took place was obvious, punishing the passenger...
That is not the purpose of a strike. You affect more people (and therefore attract more attention to your cause) when it's announced just prior to the strike.
Otherwise the airlines could prepare themselves for the strike and the impact would be less.
we need to grow out of the mentality of taking the consumer for granted in this country
Sorry, but that's just very small-minded. Strikes happen everywhere over the world. ATC strikes happened in France (last year or this winter, don't remember), Greece (about every summer), Spain, ...
And airlines as well, remember Lufthansa Cityline this winter, and Air France as well...

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by b720 »

Lovely, that's the whole point..whenever someone criticizes some reply with comparisons.. and look what you compare with, France, Spain, and Greece... I rest my case.. still think what happened is lack of respect to clients that is bread and butter.. pre anounced strike gives people fliexibilty.. and wil catch attention, don't worry. Your argument is very small minded indeed, and will get you no where in the long run.. except to unemployment.. where you probably belong.

EBAW_flyer
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by EBAW_flyer »

First of all, I'm not an ATCO, but in the aviation sector.
Second, I understand it can be frustrating for passengers (and you probably are one of them) but this is a legal method used in all sectors and all (democratic) countries.
I will do anything to avoid a strike in my company, but if it's the last resort and all other means fail, it's the only thing to do.
Emloyees don't like to strike, but see it as a necessary evil.
If they strike, it affects me too, and it will be hell, but even then I try to think that they have no other solution.
We are all human after all, and if all that is said here and in the media is true, I can understand their actions.

LX-LGX
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by LX-LGX »

EBAW_flyer wrote: You affect more people (and therefore attract more attention to your cause) when it's announced just prior to the strike. Otherwise the airlines could prepare themselves for the strike and the impact would be less.
"Otherwise airlines could prepare themselves and impact would be less", you say. Well, we couldn't get a clearer statement about the hidden agenda from those who have organized the strike and about the scandalous behaviour from those participating to it. Because like toy say: airlines are paying the bill.

Your strike was against Belgocontrol management, not against airlines - remember?

Causing damage to airlines not involved in your dispute and using passengers as hostage: this is Belgian aviation 2009. Shame on you.

Vosje
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by Vosje »

First of all, I can completely understand the reasons for a strike. Being a member of the Belgian postal services I am very much aware on conditions of having few on staff topped by sickness giving us extra stress and workload, long days, growling colleagues and public. And it's us the young replacements who get hit the hardest as we stand weakest when confronted with extra work, extra Saturdays and such. But we still have to do it. We get in newbies to fill in the gaps, without training on the round and with a lot of mistakes as a consequence.

Now, getting letters scrambled up and put in the wrong box can hardly be compared with your job. Lives are indeed at stake with what you do, and so it's even less convenient to just hire people from the street. This is a very technical job, so it cannot be easy to just hire people on a short term. So what can be done? What do you wish to achieve by these strikes? Do you want short term reinforcements like from the military or other airports? Do you want money and compensation? What would foil further strikes, on short term?

RCMike
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by RCMike »

New strike planned tonight between 23:00 and 01:00???

Mirror
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by Mirror »

RCMike wrote:New strike planned tonight between 23:00 and 01:00???
Confirmed via notam, new strike 23h-01h.
Mirror

Nevihta
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by Nevihta »

Local or Z ?

if it's local, it's not going to be very bothering, if it's Z, then it's a pain in the neck for TNT

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Zorba
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Re: Brussels Airport: air traffic control ATC on strike

Post by Zorba »

There was flow (0 accepted) between 21:00 and 23:00Z, but is cancelled after the meeting with the ministry of Transportation...
Tot hier en verder

Vosje
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Re: Brussels Airport: air traffic control ATC on strike

Post by Vosje »

Zorba wrote:There was flow (0 accepted) between 21:00 and 23:00Z, but is cancelled after the meeting with the ministry of Transportation...
Meeting the Transport minister was a condition. Is this meeting confirmed anywhere? And does this mean no further strikes this week (especially on Saturday...)?

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Zorba
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Re: Brussels Airport: air traffic control ATC on strike

Post by Zorba »

Vosje wrote:
Zorba wrote:There was flow (0 accepted) between 21:00 and 23:00Z, but is cancelled after the meeting with the ministry of Transportation...
Meeting the Transport minister was a condition. Is this meeting confirmed anywhere? And does this mean no further strikes this week (especially on Saturday...)?
Meeting took place and there will be an audit before the opening of the new center late November. I have absolutely no idea if this means no more actions.
Tot hier en verder

FlightMate
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Re: Brussels Airport ATC strike between 1800 and 2000 LT today ?

Post by FlightMate »

LX-LGX wrote: The problem with Belgian ATC management and/or board is that they allow people like you to work as ATC. You are a real danger because decisions from people like you -who clearly cannot handle stress- may kill people. You should advise your supervisor asap that you are unsuitable for the job - although technicall( (computerwise) qualified. Hence your nice salary. "Feeling tired", you say? Then please immediately call yourself off. I don't want to be guided by such an ATC. We need people who love the job and who accept that not every aspect from their job is sit back and relax, like unability to enjoy lunch at a restaurant at their work.
Isn't it what they just did? Call themself off because they're understaffed and tired, meaning unsafe?
I'm glad they did! Don't want to be guided through another aircraft!
Remember uberlingen?

It would be nice to give notice, but you don't know you are tired before you effectively are...

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