New high-speed railwaystation at LHR

[JOVAN]

According an article in the FT, British Government is about to approve the building of a high-speed railway station at LHR.

Apparently something all big Airports have or plan to have: a connection to the high-speed railway network in Europe.
FRA, AMS, CGG are already well connected.

How are latest plans at BRU ?

[Acid-drop]

A slow train connection is enough to receive high speed trains, they don't need to fly at 300km/h up to the platform. There are so many potential airports that could do that that this news is almost uninsteresting

[brussels airlines]

There is a project called Diabolo and one of the things in the plan is the HST (High Speed Train) wich should go under Brussels Airport.

I don't knwo the details, but I certainly know there are other people on this forum who do.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Especially since this article is a rehash. The Arup study is high level study, so definately not thought through enough, and Lord Adonis is not talking on behalf of the government! There are plenty of things on the wishlist of the UK government concerning transport, unfortunately few projects actually happen!

We've discussed BRU & the need for a HSL in a a previous topic... No need to bring up again unless something really new comes up! (And nothing happened...)

[Conti764]

How are latest plans at BRU ?

As soon as Diabolo is completed, high speed trains can stop at BRU. I only hope the NMBS will do something about the old '80-ish look of the station, if necessary with BAC money, since the station is not quite welcoming in my opinion, definitely not for high speed trains.

After edit: they can already stop at BRU of course, but it's not very attractive to them. You can only enter the airport station from Brussels or Leuven, meaning all trains coming from the north (Netherlands) have to pass trough Brussels before they can stop at BRU, which in turn is a headstation, so this limits operational advantages even further.

[Atlantis]

Apparently something all big Airports have or plan to have: a connection to the high-speed railway network in Europe.
FRA, AMS, CGG are already well connected.

How are latest plans at BRU ?

How many times do we have to say that the Diabolo project will be finished by 2012! The tunnels, 1 big and 1 sub-tunnel, are almost finished. The tracks and the refurbishment of the station are a matter of time.

This has nothing to do with Brussels Airport. This is an investment sponsored by the government and public affairs. Lots of paperwork, lots of time, etc, etc. This is not Dubai where slavery is the rule!!

[regi]

What has that line about slavery in Dubai to do with a railway link at Zaventem ?

[Atlantis]

What has that line about slavery in Dubai to do with a railway link at Zaventem ?

In Dubai they work 24h/24h, 6days a week. Some people on this forum think that you can finish such a huge project in one single year.

[JOVAN]

How many times do we have to say that the Diabolo project will be finished by 2012! The tunnels, 1 big and 1 sub-tunnel, are almost finished. The tracks and the refurbishment of the station are a matter of time.

This has nothing to do with Brussels Airport. This is an investment sponsored by the government and public affairs. Lots of paperwork, lots of time, etc, etc. !!

You know so much Atlantis: Which high-speed trains are going to pass and stop at BRU: Thalys ? Albatros ? ICE ? ...and from when onwards ?

What more can you tell us about the refurbishment of the 80's-looking station?

[jan_olieslagers]

One thing at a time Jovan. You might as well ask which routes will be served by B787 or what planets will be served by WhiteKnight or whatever. For this once Atlantis is absolutely right: the Diabolo project is going its way; it is an infrastructure project, no more, no less. When the infrastructure is done, the exploitation/operations guys can come and get some trains running.

[JOVAN]

One thing at a time Jovan. You might as well ask which routes will be served by B787 or what planets will be served by WhiteKnight or whatever. For this once Atlantis is absolutely right: the Diabolo project is going its way; it is an infrastructure project, no more, no less. When the infrastructure is done, the exploitation/operations guys can come and get some trains running.

Jan, when such an investment is done, there is probably some plan or a feasibility study. Some commitment made hereor there ????

You mean " a millions of euros costing project " is going its way......without any further plans or commitments ?? Wait and see ??

What kind of people are you to just accept things to happen as they happen ??

If you do not know, never mind but do not bs.

If somebody knows about studies or agreements made for HST to stop at BRU, let me know.. Tks.

[LX-LGX]

How many times do we have to say that the Diabolo project will be finished by 2012! The tunnels, 1 big and 1 sub-tunnel, are almost finished. The tracks and the refurbishment of the station are a matter of time.

This has nothing to do with Brussels Airport. This is an investment sponsored by the government and public affairs. Lots of paperwork, lots of time, etc, etc. !!

You know so much Atlantis: Which high-speed trains are going to pass and stop at BRU: Thalys ? Albatros ? ICE ? ...and from when onwards ?

What more can you tell us about the refurbishment of the 80's-looking station?

Jovan, strange that you haven't heard from Diabolo yet. Anyway - as you will see on the map, it will link St-Tropez and Vladivostok to Brussels. And Antwerp, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Paris, Liège, Aachen, Frankfurt, Cologne, Münich, ...

Dutch map:
http://www.b-rail.be/projects/media/vis ... er03nl.gif
French map:
http://www.b-rail.be/projects/media/vis ... 7rer03.gif

[brussels airlines]

You mean " a millions of euros costing project " is going its way......without any further plans or commitments ?? Wait and see ??

What kind of people are you to just accept things to happen as they happen ??

If you do not know, never mind but do not bs.

If somebody knows about studies or agreements made for HST to stop at BRU, let me know.. Tks.

Do you think there is any airport in the world who knowes wich airlines are serving them in 2012?

There can happen a lot in 3 years. Now, we can just make a speculation of wich trains will come. So they can say probably Thalys, ICE...but there is nothing official, wich is normal: Which airline does know its destinations for over 3 years?

[Conti764]

Jan, when such an investment is done, there is probably some plan or a feasibility study. Some commitment made hereor there ????
You mean " a millions of euros costing project " is going its way......without any further plans or commitments ?? Wait and see ??

I don't know if it's still around, but there once was a 'study' or at least a public part of it of Diabolo online from the website of the NMBS. The goal of Diabolo is to connect the airport directly with the Northern part of the country and onwards without having to pass trough Brussels first. Will the Thalys stop at BRU? Probably. For sure? I don't know. Unlike the NMBS itself, Thalys is a private, economic entity in which the NMBS participates. They will open and close routes depending on profits. They already did this with pax from CDG to BRU, but that never became a success since SN Brussels Airlines (which had an agreement with Thalys) was to weak to fill many trains and CDG wass (is) a better or even just as good airport for connections.

Now it seems quite logic the Thalys or another high speed train will stop at BRU, bringing in passengers from Southern Holland, some from AMS maybe,... But Diabolo is also very important for people coming in from Antwerp and the surrounding area, who then can come to the airport in a quick and easy way, without having to pass trough Brussels.

What the plans will be in the end, I don't know. Not many people know, I guess. And those who know, won't be telling you or me before anything will be finalized.

What kind of people are you to just accept things to happen as they happen ??

If you do not know, never mind but do not bs.

If somebody knows about studies or agreements made for HST to stop at BRU, let me know.. Tks.

Well, first of all, we are aviation enthusiasts. Some of us know more then others and they sometimes tell us something about it. But they cannot just say everything they know. So for the majority of us, it's up to draw conclusions from all the bits and peaces we find on the internet.

[Acid-drop]

I only hope the NMBS will do something about the old '80-ish look of the station, if necessary with BAC money, since the station is not quite welcoming in my opinion, definitely not for high speed trains.

Lol, you can say that. I think this station deserve the award of the ugliest and scariest station in western europe.

About diabolo, I hope we can finally see one day a fast (200km/h) IC train between Liège and Antwerp with a stop in BRU.

[Conti764]

Lol, you can say that. I think this station deserve the award of the ugliest and scariest station in western europe.

Yep, but that's up to the NMBS, not BAC. If you see the money they invest in railway cathedrals in Antwerp, Leuven or Guillemins, it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest a fraction of that money in BRU station since, for many foreign travelers, it's the first station they see.

About diabolo, I hope we can finally see one day a fast (200km/h) IC train between Liege and Antwerp with a stop in BRU.

Well, in theory, it's possible, but I don't think we will see a Thalys do Antwerp - BRU - Liege since the NMBS has their own equipment that can do 200 km/h which is fast enough for national service in Belgium.

[Buzz]

Lol, you can say that. I think this station deserve the award of the ugliest and scariest station in western europe.

Yep, but that's up to the NMBS, not BAC. If you see the money they invest in railway cathedrals in Antwerp, Leuven or Guillemins, it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest a fraction of that money in BRU station since, for many foreign travelers, it's the first station they see.

It will probably be updated anyway, since as far as I know the station will be transformed from a terminal station to a normal (drive-thru) station when the tunnels in the direction of Antwerp are ready.

Wasn't the NMBS station given an award in 2007? I believe I read something about that... I don't think it's that bad, it just needs an update.

diabolo, I hope we can finally see one day a fast (200km/h) IC train between Liege and Antwerp with a stop in BRU.

Well, in theory, it's possible, but I don't think we will see a Thalys do Antwerp - BRU - Liege since the NMBS has their own equipment that can do 200 km/h which is fast enough for national service in Belgium.

IC trains are InterCity NMBS trains, wich indeed can run at 200 km/h. They can run on the high-speed rail link from Brussels to Liège.

[Atlantis]

What kind of people are you to just accept things to happen as they happen ??

It's all about politics. You can't buy new terminals, gates, parking's, train-stations or new train connections without permission of the local authorities and Flemish/Federal government.
You can't even attract new carriers and new destinations without permission of the government.

Why do you think it took so long to get permission for only 200m of tracks for the last leg to Schaarbeek over the E19? Correct: politics.

It's a game and because we have more governments in Belgium then necessary, Brussels Airport will loose the battle and not because of no vision or what ever but due to political games.

Two examples: 1) 3 to 4 communities (not so close to the airport) are against the new LCT. Even, one of those mayors visited the wharf without permission of Brussels Airport.

2) The Flemish government can't or will not give a long term vision for the airport!! Can you believe that in terms of economical crisis and with the airport as second biggest economical pool of this country.
In the next couple of weeks they would try again to have a debate.

Do you see the picture?

[euroflyer]

According an article in the FT, British Government is about to approve the building of a high-speed railway station at LHR.

Apparently something all big Airports have or plan to have: a connection to the high-speed railway network in Europe.
FRA, AMS, CGG are already well connected.

How are latest plans at BRU ?

Why would LHR need a high-speed railway station? There is nothing what we 'in Europe' would call a high-speed railway net in the UK

[LX-LGX]

According an article in the FT, British Government is about to approve the building of a high-speed railway station at LHR.

In the first post here, JOVAN told us 'the British Goverment is about to approve". JOVAN hasn't given us the link to the article, so I've looked for it. Please read the article: "about to approve" is not what I read:

Example: "...Gordon Brown said last month that the government was drawing up ambitious plans for transport infrastructure to bolster Britain’s competitiveness once the recession is over. But ministers admit the Treasury will take some convincing that such schemes are financially sustainable. Public spending until 2015 is facing a tight squeeze as the government tries to map out a route to sustainable public finances..."

Full article - upon this discussion here is based:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/18748e5e-da7c ... 07658.html