Nearmiss above Stockel ?

[Air_Lac]

The following message has been published in print media and circulated by e-mail (I have it in French only)

It relates to a nearmiss above populated area (Woluwe St. Pierre) involving a MD11 form EvaAir last Staturday at around 18h20. Has anybody any news on this ?

Communiqué de presse du Bourgmestre VANDENHAUTE : ABORDAGE EVITE DE JUSTESSE, ET CONFIRME, le député Fédéral de DONNEA interpellera prochainement le Ministre de la Mobilité.

Le Bourgmestre de Woluwe-Saint-Pierre, Jacques VANDENHAUTE, persiste et signe : une collision aérienne entre deux avions en phase finale d'approche sur la dangereuse piste d'atterrissage 02 de l'Aéroport de Bruxelles-National a bien été évitée, de justesse, samedi dernier 28 janvier 2006 à 18 heures 20 au-dessus de la Place Dumon à Stockel-Woluwé.

Suite aux renseignements que j'ai pris auprès de pilotes d'avions, de contrôleurs aériens en service et d'experts, je dois malheureusement constater que le Ministre Landuyt, son Cabinet Ministériel, l'Administration de l'Aéronautique et BELGOCONTROL n'ont pas répondu HONNETEMENT à mes questions ni au problème réel qui s'est bien posé ce samedi soir au-dessus de ma commune.

Il est inadmissible que BELGOCONTROL affirme toujours que rien ne se soit passé, alors que j'ai assisté à la totalité de cet incident, et que 6 autres témoins se sont manifestés.

Ce matin, l'Aéronautique parle d'une enquête qui est en cours et ne veut rien dire, Belgocontrol dit toujours qu'il n'y a pas eu d'incident, enfin le Médiateur de l'Aéroport reconnaît l'existence d'un problème mais se refuse à communiquer sur ce sujet car on lui impose dès qu'il y a un incident aérien de ne plus parler puisque ce genre de "plaintes" n'entre plus dans ses attributions légales.

Puisque tout le monde pratique, avec un grand art, la "langue de bois", j'ai démandé au Député Fédéral François-Xavier de Donnea, Ministre d'Etat et ancien Bourgmestre, d'interpeller le Ministre de la Mobilité lors de la prochaine séance de la Commission de l'Infrastructure du Parlement Fédéral, puisque les autorités n'ont pas le courage de révéler ce qui s'est réellement passé.

En tant que Président de la zone de Police Montgomery, Bourgmestre chargé de la coordination de la protection de mes administrés, et de la coordination des secours dans ma commune, mais aussi de l'application correcte du Plan Catastrophe, j'ai le droit de connaître les raisons pour lesquelles certains avions se suivaient à une distance trop courte et rapprochée l'un de l'autre.

En fait, un premier avion cargo gros porteur de type MD-11 de la compagnie EVA-AIRCARGO était en phase d'atterrissage à 18 heures 18 sur la piste 02, il était suivi trop rapidement par un autre avion cargo de type Boeing 757 de la compagnie DHL, qui lui-même était suivi par un avion passager de type MD-80 de la compagnie ALITALIA.

Pour une raison inconnue, l'avion d'ALITALIA a quitté le couloir final de la piste 02 aux environs de l'ancien hippodrome de Groenendaal en virant légèrement sur la droite de l'axe de la piste, puis il a recoupé le couloir d'approche à hauteur du carrefour Léonard en descendant jusqu'à la Place Dumon et à ce moment là il a entamé un large virage à 90° vers la gauche en direction du Val des Seigneurs et des cliniques Saint-Luc pour repartir en prenant de l'altitude à pleine puissance des réacteurs, en faisant à basse altitude un énorme circuit de survol de tout Bruxelles.

L'avion italien ayant presque coupé la trajectoire du Boeing de DHL, un abordage a bien été évité de justesse samedi dernier. De plus le Boeing 757 se trouvait dans la zone de turbulence du MD-11 et le MD-80 dans celle du Boeing 757 !!!!

Je regrette que le Ministre Landuyt, le Président de la Mobilité Damar, le Directeur de l'Aéronautique Van Nuffel, malgré les sévères avertissements déjà adressés l'année dernière, continuent à sous-estimer les risques et atteintes à la sécurité du trafic aérien et des populations survolées qui ont été décuplés avec l'application du Plan de Dispersion ainsi qu'avec l'utilisation intensive de la courte, dangereuse et moins bien équipée piste d'atterrissage 02.

Le Plan de Dispersion de Bert Anciaux en imposant des procédures de vol dangereuses, des croisements de pistes et des utilisations risquées de pistes moins bien équipées diminue fortement les marges de sécurité ( Rapport IFALPA " Plan Anciaux UNSAFE ").


Jacques VANDENHAUTE
Bourgmestre de Woluwe-Saint-Pierre
Sénateur honoraire
Président de l'asbl UBCNA - BUTV vzw
Avenue du Haras, 100
B - 1150 BRUXELLES
TEL : + 32.2.773.05.36 - FAX : + 32.2.770.94.19

[sn26567]

My opinion is that Mr Vandenhaute, well known since many years as Chairman of UBCNA-BUTV opposed to flights over his peaceful village (and to Brussels airport altogether!), makes more noise than the planes flying over him. A way to draw the public attention to his organisation...

[Zorba]

Any translation for the Dutch speaking people?

[foxtrot_lima_yankee]

interesting article!
thanx air_lac!

[RadarContact]

Luckily approach controllers are not controlling by looking to the sky, they use radar. Judging their work by interpreting aircraft movements as seen from the surface is just stupid. An example? Look at the pictures of the London "near miss" in that other topic!
Let controllers do their job, they are the qualified persons, not some chairman of UBCNA-BUTV.

[744rules]

If this really happened, we must admit all those witnesses have an incredible observation capabillity.

May I remind everbody we have elections comming up this year

[regi]

If airlines would impose a tax depending on the postal code ( inhabitants of communities where there are many anti airport screamers) all the rattle would stop at once.
Nobody wants to answer them anymore, it is a non topic.
And about that sujet De Donnea: in the days he was a federal minister, how did he fly to international meetings you think? By balloon?
This is just a bunch of bourgeois creatures who are lucky that Stalin didn't come this far.
It is time we start a website with all the private addresses of all those little screamers so union demonstrators know where to go. I will borrow them my tomtomgo so they find the addresses quick enough.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

This is just a bunch of bourgeois creatures who are lucky that Stalin didn't come this far.

Totally agree! The Stockel area is certainly not the poorest are of Brussels lol

We still need info about the Alitalia MD80 though. Why did it apparently behave so strangely??? Was it about to land? Bad communication between ATC and pilot? Anyway hope everyone involved will provide a clear explanation about what exactly happened! Hiding things will certainly make people speculate even more. Will encourage people to make up ridiculous stories and won't help the case of BRU airport at all!

[pascal-air]

I do not think there was an air-miss !. May be an anormal approach. Anyway, I heard that belgoControl is making some investigations, and may be things will be more clear with radar track etc... So let's belgo control doing its job.

But for sure, I am living near the 02 path, I saw some aircrafts, having a strange approach: I am used to see aircraft, and some of them (of course a minority) are completely missing their approach: in the way they are too low, too high, or really far away from the axis of the runway. For a small aircraft, this is acceptable, but for a jumbo-jet, I think it is completely strange, because they can set their auto pilot mode into approach miles away, so I do not why why they are approaching completely out of the glide scope !

But of course this is the minority... But it remains strange...

Pascal

[elnombre]

Guys
Careful what you say. I live in and around Stockel and hae no problem with the aircraft. There are many people in this area who also are tolerant and understand the reason why there is aircraft noise.
Many of the contributors on this thread are just as guilty of sweeping generalisations and wild inaccuracies as many of the noise complainers. If you wish to be taken seriously, calm down and think things through before posting, you do yourself no favours.
As for the comment about being wealthy in Stockel, yes it's true and you know what.. It's great.
A very angry
El Nombre

[realplaneshaveprops]

Just a simple missed approach, Belgocontrol will try to find out what went wrong. Controller or pilot mistake?

A lot of decibels for a small case!

Koen

[vc-10]

a lot of decibels come from an Alitalia MD80........

[pascal-air]

Guys
Careful what you say. I live in and around Stockel and hae no problem with the aircraft. There are many people in this area who also are tolerant and understand the reason why there is aircraft noise.
Many of the contributors on this thread are just as guilty of sweeping generalisations and wild inaccuracies as many of the noise complainers. If you wish to be taken seriously, calm down and think things through before posting, you do yourself no favours.
As for the comment about being wealthy in Stockel, yes it's true and you know what.. It's great.
A very angry
El Nombre

I am agree and this is not the topic of the thread, here it is: airmiss or not. Concerning what is said, this is completely contradictory. Sometimes people are saying they bought cheap house so they have not to complain, sometimes they are saying there are Bourgeois with 600 sq meters villa and swimming pool etc. Anyway, the purpose of this thread is to know if there was a real airmiss or not. And me, personally, I don't know, (I was not there) but, like I said in my previous post, that I saw some of the landings that are far away (very far away) from the glidescope, and approach plate. My question is that i would like to know if approaches are studied after (radar track) in order to make some recommendations because for me, when you are responsible of a large aircraft, any hazardous approach (non-precision) must be justified.

Pascal

[BrightCedars]

I was flying Alitalia from Malpensa to Brussels in the early days of January and we had an exact same approach. We came from the East over Liège and headed towards the airport. Then, to my surprise, we didn't land but overflew the airport and North Brussels, went West then South of Brussels all the way to Wavre, only to turn back to meet carrefour Léonard and start a descent to 02.

Nothing seemed exceptional and I would tend to think that our wobbling politician friend should worry much more about other things than what his old men's eyes and brain reveal to him of reality.

[elnombre]

overflew the airport and North Brussels, went West then South of Brussels all the way to Wavre, only to turn back to meet carrefour Léonard and start a descent to 02.

This of course being the normal approach for 02 from that direction.

This is what happens, people don't know what they are talking about and therefore make something out of nothing.

Trail by television, newspaper or internet serves no-one

El nombre

[Vinnie-Winnie]

I was flying Alitalia from Malpensa to Brussels in the early days of January and we had an exact same approach. We came from the East over Liège and headed towards the airport. Then, to my surprise, we didn't land but overflew the airport and North Brussels, went West then South of Brussels all the way to Wavre, only to turn back to meet carrefour Léonard and start a descent to 02.

That's rather strange to me... Did they change runways at the last minute, meaning that your plan could not land on runway 25R/25L? In any case if runway assignment had been changed earlier say when the plane had been over Liege, couldn't the plane have banked west then north again to meet runway 2? cause here it seems like the plane had done a 270 degree turn...

[website-info]

overflew the airport and North Brussels, went West then South of Brussels all the way to Wavre, only to turn back to meet carrefour Léonard and start a descent to 02.

This of course being the normal approach for 02 from that direction.

This is what happens, people don't know what they are talking about and therefore make something out of nothing.

Trail by television, newspaper or internet serves no-one

El nombre

Got to agree with you here El Nom, a little knowledge is very dangerous, especially if it involves the press. Ah we'll lets go burn a few Euros to feel better in this rich area !

T

[JulietHotel]

Yes, Mr. Vandenhaute's press release is propaganda. But reading certain reactions in this forum I see that some people are influenced by other types of propaganda.
No matter whether you live in an area supposedly rich or not (by the way Vlaams Brabant is one of the richest regions of Europe... and there are social apartments around Stockel, so what's the point here ), and whatever your native language (the usual argument in this country), I think you deserve respect... including respect of your safety and health.

I do not live in Stockel, but not very far, and indeed I have witnessed the "go-around" of an MD80 at 1820 last Saturday. You can hardly ignore this when it happens at about 1000 ft above the city, as it makes significantly more noise that the landings!

When you start playing with runway allocation and make controllers and pilots' lives more difficult, what else can you expect but incidents? But let's be honest, this time it seems that the use of RWY02 was relevant (wind 060/08kt).

I love my airport job. I also love the place where I live for 12 years. There must be a way to preserve both.

[JulietHotel]

If airlines would impose a tax depending on the postal code ( inhabitants of communities where there are many anti airport screamers) all the rattle would stop at once.
Nobody wants to answer them anymore, it is a non topic.
And about that sujet De Donnea: in the days he was a federal minister, how did he fly to international meetings you think? By balloon?
This is just a bunch of bourgeois creatures who are lucky that Stalin didn't come this far.
It is time we start a website with all the private addresses of all those little screamers so union demonstrators know where to go. I will borrow them my tomtomgo so they find the addresses quick enough.

How will you call your website: www.radio_mille_collines.be ?