Spotting military aircraft on radar?

[TiboJ]

Hello everyone,

Is there any way to see military aircraft on something like Flightradar24?
I have also heard about Mode-S receivers but I don't know if it's legal.

Regards,
Tibo

[andorra-airport]

You can try this: http://www.live-military-mode-s.eu/

[TiboJ]

Thank you.
Would be great if it was live feed
I think the locations doesnt match?
Why aren't military aircrafts available on FR24?

[KriVa]

If you think about it, the answer kinda speaks for itself, doesn't it?

[TiboJ]

It seems logical but I actually mean what makes it possible to track an aircraft and why it isn't that easy with military. Something with the transponder? So it's more a technical question..

[KriVa]

Ah! If that's what you mean, the answer is rather simple.
In layman's terms: While both are using the same mode of communication with the ground, a civilian plane will also broadcast it's position. A military aircraft will not do this. Of course, there are ways to ge around this, but these are mostly less than legal, or very hard to do on your own.
One of these ways is MLAT, or MultiLATeration, which is described here: http://www.coaa.co.uk/planeplotter.htm

Multilateration of aircraft without ADS-B
Some aircraft transmit Mode-S messages without transmitting the ADS-B formats that include position. Provided that there are sufficient suitable users receiving such an aircraft, PlanePlotter can can determine the position using the arrival time of the Mode-S transmissions at each user.

In fact, MLAT kind off works like GPS does, by comparing the times between received signals.
Once again, this is a very simple explanation of the way it works.
These days, FR24 also uses MLAT to some extent, but they don't show military traffic (yet?).

[TiboJ]

Thanks for the answer
It would be a dream to see what's flying around here instead of only civil aircrafts...

I have rarely seen military flights on FR24.

[TiboJ]

I am using PlanePlotter with a R820T Dongle ADS-B/Mode-S receiver for a few weeks now, and it's awesome!
I can sometimes see for example some F16's using Mlat method and know when they are going to flyby!

Anyone else using PlanePlotter?
It would be nice if we can increase the Belgian users/ground stations count for PlanePlotter.
If that happens, Mlat will work much better and military aircraft tracking will work much better.

Who's interested?

[woutertheboy]

I am using PlanePlotter with a R820T Dongle ADS-B/Mode-S receiver for a few weeks now, and it's awesome!
I can sometimes see for example some F16's using Mlat method and know when they are going to flyby!

Anyone else using PlanePlotter?
It would be nice if we can increase the Belgian users/ground stations count for PlanePlotter.
If that happens, Mlat will work much better and military aircraft tracking will work much better.

Who's interested?

Mlat coverage is already quite good at FR24, I mainly choose it above planespotter for use in Belgium.

[TiboJ]

You really can't compare PlanePlotter's functions with Flightradar24.
FR24 doesn't show all mil aircraft
I have both and I can see MUCH more mil aircraft on PP, I even think I can see everything, but not always with position. It there isn't position information, the aircraft will be displayed in the Aircraft List with information like altitude and reg. number.

Do you feed data to FR24 or PP?

We need more data feeders in Belgium because there will be more change to request the position of an positionless aircraft then.

Regards,
Tibo

[KriVa]

I feed data to FR24, covering an area from Ostend until well past EGLL (mostly upper levels, ±8000 ft and up there).
However, the extra cost in licensing for Planeplotter has always put me off.

[TiboJ]

What receiver do you use?

The €25 is really worth the money.

If there are more PP sharers in Belgium, there would be seen more much, if not all, mil aircraft.
FR24 shows some Mlat's but doesn't use the technic to determine position like in PP.

I mainly feed data around EBBE/EBBR.

[KriVa]

For me personally, I just don't see myself using it enough to get those 25€ back, in added value.
The only thing I would use it for, is the occasional Sea King flight, or the occasional C-130 when back at home. And for me personally, that just isn't worth the money.
I'd love it if there was some scenario where you could use Planeplotter for free, if you were adding data to the network. Just like FR24 does with the FR24 premium service. I do think this would stimulate a lot of other users to actually feed the network.

[TiboJ]

Ok
For me personnaly, it adds a value to aircraft spotting.
I live nearby an air base and now I can sometimes see when there is something coming in.
I also want to increase the coverage for other users in Belgium. If that increases, we will see much more mil on the virtual radar PP.
When you feed data to PP, you get the Master User status for free, which is normally €12/year.
With Master User status, you can do Mlat requests and much more.

Hopefully, some Belgians get motivated to use this

You probably use the FR24 receiver?

edit: I forgot to mention that I also feed date to FR24.

[KriVa]

Actually, no. I'm using an SBS-3. And even though it was quite an expensive receiver, those extra 25 euro's just aren't worth it to me.

[TiboJ]

Regrettable...
I also want a receiver like that soon. Where have you bought is?


For people that doesn't understand Mlat/calculating position of unknown aircraft, here is it explained in an easy way:
http://www.multilateration.com/surveill ... ation.html

[sn26567]

TiboJ, your proposal sounds interesting and I sincerely hope that with the help of some of our members you succeed to attract enough people to get it working.

[KriVa]

I bought it in the UK, in a shop I honestly wouldn't really recommend.
It's not that I had problems, but they had no stock of SBS-3s, and communication was quite slow, to stay positive.
I won't mention their name in public, though. If you want to know, send me a PM

[TiboJ]

TiboJ, your proposal sounds interesting and I sincerely hope that with the help of some of our members you succeed to attract enough people to get it working.

Thank you.
The help of other members is always welcome!

I bought it in the UK, in a shop I honestly wouldn't really recommend.
It's not that I had problems, but they had no stock of SBS-3s, and communication was quite slow, to stay positive.
I won't mention their name in public, though. If you want to know, send me a PM

Ok, if you have had bad experiences with that shop, I'll buy there neither
I saw a few for sale on some webshops.