Groundless: not based on any good reason
Still ... I don't understand
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They said FCO would be their 5th 'major hub' (after FRA, MUC, ZRH, VIE - yes unfortunately even compared to VIE, BRU is not as much of a hub as the others...), so normally a hub focussed operation. In terms of long haul I assume something in between VIE and ZRH ('main routes' + some more niche type routes that work well via FCO). In terms of short/medium-haul I don't know the FCO hub of AZ well enough to judge on that.sn26567 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 20:32 Alitalia, together with the Italian Government, reportedly will sign an agreement on the sale of the carrier to Lufthansa by 19 December 2017 for about US$353 million. The fleet of 120 aeroplanes is expected to be reduced to just over half.
Lufthansa should only acquire the operational unit of Alitalia.
As a network airline or a point-to-point airline?
Germany’s Lufthansa has offered 250 million euros to take on most of Alitalia’s fleet of aircraft and half of its staff, a source close to the matter said on Tuesday (19 Dec 2017).
Short/medium-hauls from fco are relatively strong. The long-hauls are already rather weak so I don't know where they will cut ..RoMax wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 21:17
They said FCO would be their 5th 'major hub' (after FRA, MUC, ZRH, VIE - yes unfortunately even compared to VIE, BRU is not as much of a hub as the others...), so normally a hub focussed operation. In terms of long haul I assume something in between VIE and ZRH ('main routes' + some more niche type routes that work well via FCO). In terms of short/medium-haul I don't know the FCO hub of AZ well enough to judge on that.
VIE is a much bigger short/medium-haul hub for OS than BRU for SN. SN is 'gifted' with a stronger local market (which however also attracts more competition) and it's focus is much more on a proper mix of hub/network and point-to-point traffic while OS is more focused on connectivity. Is there more potential in BRU for a hub operation? Of course, but no need to start dreaming about a second ZRH or something. But ok, that's not the topic now, it was just a side comment in the reasoning on why LH says '5th hub' (which excludes BRU).sn-remember wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 21:08 I don't think VIE is a hub more than BRU .. In fact I think Bru has more future potential bcs it was insufficiently developped. If you compare the l/haul fleets, OS currently operate 11 W/bodies (6 B767-300 + 5 B777-200) while SN operate 10 w/bodies (4 A332 + 6 A333) ... So it all depends on the strategy the lh group will decide to follow .. I personally think BRU has a card to play and a role to acquire.
NBO and JNB are planned to be relaunched in spring 2018, both 4/week with A330.sn-remember wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 21:58 To my knowledge, AZ dropped NBO and JNB long ago, also LOS and ACC were dropped but more recently so ...
Indeed, although not new markets for LHG AZ would definitely improve its position there besides LH and to some extent OS (OS has a very strong position on some of those M/E markets, but is virtually absent in others and LX has a different focus in which those routes don't fit that well).sn-remember wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 21:58 To Middle-East they have more weight than VIE or ZRH to places like CAI, AMM, IKA, BEY, ALG, CMN, TUN , etc none of which are currently served by LX to my knowledge.
In terms of long haul LX and AZ are close, but ZRH is the stronger global hub there. Overall volume FCO would exceed ZRH indeed due to short/medium haul. But AZ is also well past its top period on the short/medium haul segment and LHG would never be allowed to take over all of it.sn-remember wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 21:58 In my view they should overweight LX i.t.o. trafic volume (and OS by far).
BRU definitely has a hub future and it should and will grow. But percentage wise it will always remain more focused on the local market than FRA, MUC, ZRH, VIE and FCO and that's not necessarily a bad thing But of course in particular for long haul a hub operation is simply essential. Just like EW will notice in DUS that if they don't offer a working feeding operation, it will be very difficult to survive on those new long haul routes which are of a total different breed than their current leisure long haul network out of CGN.sn-remember wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 21:58 And Bru could/should have a hub future as well as Vie (as a side issue)
In terms of PAX BRU is bigger ( a little bit for sure ) than VIE, no ?sn-remember wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 21:58
And Bru could/should have a hub future as well as Vie (as a side issue)
Yes, but that in itself doesn't say anything about the hub size of BRU vs. VIE, at BRU there is much more competition. The market share of OS at VIE is a lot bigger than SN's at BRU. I'm not sure about the market share when including codeshare partners (in particular Star Alliance partners, with the focus on the word 'partners', so SAS or TK at BRU doesn't count as SN doesn't actively work together with them), but Im quite sure VIE is still quite a lot bigger than BRU 'as a hub', but that's mainly due to the large focus of OS on the short/medium haul hub network because in terms of long haul they are not quite impressive.
I don't think so. At least not in 2016. I think this year BRU might become a bit bigger, but it is not sure.nordikcam wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 23:10In terms of PAX BRU is bigger ( a little bit for sure ) than VIE, no ?sn-remember wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 21:58
And Bru could/should have a hub future as well as Vie (as a side issue)
I think this is indeed correct. The pax connecting in VIE to East-European destinations is impressive. That is also why SN is considered P2P and OS is considered a network airline in the LH group. For example on flights i was recently on to destinations in the Balkan such as Sarajevo the amount of pax transfering was 80 to 90% (I was even upgraded to Sarajevo to business because of overbooking, it was an A320 - daily connection!). On the other hand the CEO of SN said in an interview in a newspaper (don't remember which one that was) that they aim at having at least 40-50% O&D, even on long haul. That is the difference.RoMax wrote: ↑19 Dec 2017, 23:17Yes, but that in itself doesn't say anything about the hub size of BRU vs. VIE, at BRU there is much more competition. The market share of OS at VIE is a lot bigger than SN's at BRU. I'm not sure about the market share when including codeshare partners (in particular Star Alliance partners, with the focus on the word 'partners', so SAS or TK at BRU doesn't count as SN doesn't actively work together with them), but Im quite sure VIE is still quite a lot bigger than BRU 'as a hub', but that's mainly due to the large focus of OS on the short/medium haul hub network because in terms of long haul they are not quite impressive.