This was a one-day return in economy class. The BA/SN codeshare monoply has pushed the prices up to a hefty €598, which is still cheaper than what LH asks for the shorter trip between BRU and FRA.
1. BRU-MAN SN2173
I arrived early at BRU airport, and checked in at an automatic machine, which never asks for the weight of my hand luggage (it was anyway more than the allowed 6 kg), and I was assigned seat 10F (the SN database remembered I prefer window seats). But I also looked at the very short queues at the SN counters. The tellers seemed to be very efficient.
During my wait, I first had an orange juice and a coffee at the Diners Club lounge (a nice feature when you have the Diners credit card and are not allowed the airline business lounges). And ten I walked around pier B to see if there was anything special.
The SLR B767 flight to Varadero and Cancun departed on time. The SN Avro RJ85 OO-DJQ still has a blue belly with Qualiflyer titles!
And then I saw this Canadair OY-RJA of Danish regional airline Cimber Air:
What was this plane doing in BRU? Could it be operating the Maersk/SN flights to Billund?
My plane was SN2173 departing 09.30. It was operated with an Avro RJ85 OO-DJT. On-time boarding. Load factor 60%. Usual Avro seating (five abreast, leather seats).
The purser was Patrick, and he was assisted by a blonde stewardess, but no other names of crew members were mentioned. It is the first time I see only two f/a's on an SN Avro, instead of the usual three.
Due to strong winds and rain, take-off was on time but bumpy, but soon te weather cleared up and it was possible to see the Scheldt river and the North Sea. New clouds and a bumpy descent to Manchester.
Nice breakfast (orange juice or Spa water, ham and mustard sandwhich, hot croissant, tea or coffee, and two Belgian chocolates), swiftly served by smiling staff. And on-time arrival at 9:50 after an excellent 1 hr 20 min flight.
2. MAN-BRU BA1620
What a difference for the return flight! I tried to check in at a BA automatic machine, but it did not accept my ticket because it was issued under an SN number. I thus had to queue, and the line was much longer than in Brussels. I got seat 10A. I did not notice any special planes during my wait.
Boarding was on time. The aircraft was an Avro RJ100 of Bristish Airways CityExpress; I did not even bother to check the registration after I saw the seating, but it looked like this:
Seating was, as I feared, 6 abreast, although with leather seats. But in C class, the seats were five abreast, and there were 7 passengers for seven rows (meaning a load factor of only 20%). In economy, for the remaining rows, load factor was 65%. That means that there should have been less rows in C and more in Y.
Nevertheless, there were two neighbours on my right side, and we were like sardines in a box. Departure was on-time at 17:30 and smoother than in the morning flight.
The meal was a single all day deli (mozzarella and onion marmelade on tomato bread: surprising, but not bad). It was quickly served, as there were no less than 4 stewardesses on board (here the number can replace the quality). With that I had a 33 cl can of the only available beer: a UK-brewed Stella Artois. That was also OK.
Brussels was reached in one hour, and after some delay at getting to the gate, I disembarked on time at 19:55.
I said "never again in an Avro with 6 seats abreast", and I confirm; but when you have in a hurry to get home and no other choice, except waiting two and a half more hours for a SN flight, what do you do?
BRU-MAN with SN, MAN-BRU with BA (13 Jan 04)
BRU-MAN with SN, MAN-BRU with BA (13 Jan 04)
Last edited by sn26567 on 14 Jan 2004, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
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SN2173 haha - I go on SN2174 in September!
So you drunk some fake Stella - dreadful. The Belgian variety is much better. The SN sounded good, but flying with BA - you would have been better with VLM, can't beat them.
A cabin crew of 2? I had that on my first ever Sabena flight in an Avro so it is not unique.
Instead of an Avro with 6 abreast you should have gone for a Fokker 50 with four abreast leather seats - with VLM.
EI BAe 146s were 6 abreast, but they weren't that bad.
Great report and the photos really add to it!
So you drunk some fake Stella - dreadful. The Belgian variety is much better. The SN sounded good, but flying with BA - you would have been better with VLM, can't beat them.
A cabin crew of 2? I had that on my first ever Sabena flight in an Avro so it is not unique.
Instead of an Avro with 6 abreast you should have gone for a Fokker 50 with four abreast leather seats - with VLM.
EI BAe 146s were 6 abreast, but they weren't that bad.
Great report and the photos really add to it!
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
In that star ranking website, BA and SN both have four stars, but for economy class, SN still has four, whereas BA has only 3. For business class, both have four stars, and for first, BA has five stars. It is nice to lure high-paying passengers, but not at the expense of economy travellers.
Maybe for small people, but if you weigh 80 kg for 1.83 m, they are too small, whatever the airline. An Avro is built to have 5 seats abreast, not 6. And the airlines that put 6 seats are cheating their customers.EI BAe 146s were 6 abreast, but they weren't that bad.
André
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It also sounds like an expensive trip - over 500 Euros!!! My day trip with SNBA in March is costing £96.30 for a return. You are being ripped off somewhere! BA don't sound half as good as SNBA or especially VLM! At least VLM serves proper beer (Maes or Jupiler) and not fake rubbish.
But I can't believe those star ranking sites because of the rubbish written about VLM.
But I can't believe those star ranking sites because of the rubbish written about VLM.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
I just looked at the cheapest quotes on Galileo for a day-trip on 16 Jan with the flights I have taken (BA/SN codeshare) and with VLM. Amazing results:
BA: €309.12 (non-refundable)
SN: €419.12 (non-refundable, for exactly the same flights)
VLM via LCY: €594.44 (refundable).
One more reason not to fly LCC (!) VLM. Furthermore, with VLM I should have left at 7:20 instead of 9:30 (so I stayed in bed two more precious hours), and I would have come back at 22:30 instead of 19:55 (I was in the arms of my beloved wife two and half hours earlier ).
No, VLM is not really an option for a hurried businessman.
PS: I had a refundable ticket for flexibilty.
BA: €309.12 (non-refundable)
SN: €419.12 (non-refundable, for exactly the same flights)
VLM via LCY: €594.44 (refundable).
One more reason not to fly LCC (!) VLM. Furthermore, with VLM I should have left at 7:20 instead of 9:30 (so I stayed in bed two more precious hours), and I would have come back at 22:30 instead of 19:55 (I was in the arms of my beloved wife two and half hours earlier ).
No, VLM is not really an option for a hurried businessman.
PS: I had a refundable ticket for flexibilty.
André
ex Sabena #26567
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Tip for cheaper SNBA tickets - Expedia and the SNBA website itself - both quoted me the same price for my March flights. They are rigid in not allowing changes, but they are at times I want so I wouldn't be changing anyway!
I think you need to shop around alot with internet buying though. I checked out a day trip from BHX to Jersey with Flybe for 12th May - less than £100 for a morning flight out and evening return (I think it was £56) but the same flights on the same day from Expedia were about £90 more!! I know who I prefer to buy from in that example!
If VLM are "low cost" how come it can cost over £100 from LCY to BRU when it is only costing £96 with SNBA? And you get the full service with VLM like you do with SNBA. From what I read about SN their service is identical to that of VLM.
I think you need to shop around alot with internet buying though. I checked out a day trip from BHX to Jersey with Flybe for 12th May - less than £100 for a morning flight out and evening return (I think it was £56) but the same flights on the same day from Expedia were about £90 more!! I know who I prefer to buy from in that example!
If VLM are "low cost" how come it can cost over £100 from LCY to BRU when it is only costing £96 with SNBA? And you get the full service with VLM like you do with SNBA. From what I read about SN their service is identical to that of VLM.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
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Sorry I didn't see this part of the message before. How tall is 1.83m in feet and inches? Is it tall? I agree that six abreast in an Avro can be cramped, but what I also mean is that the seats themselves on the Aer Lingus aircraft were nice and comfortable (they were leather ones all the way through). The MD-82 was also five abreast, and that was a superb aircraft, I found.sn26567 wrote:Maybe for small people, but if you weigh 80 kg for 1.83 m, they are too small, whatever the airline. An Avro is built to have 5 seats abreast, not 6. And the airlines that put 6 seats are cheating their customers.EI BAe 146s were 6 abreast, but they weren't that bad.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
Thanks for this very nice report André.
It's a pitty you got the BA 6 abreast Avro
Greetz
Chris
8)
It's a pitty you got the BA 6 abreast Avro
It's amazing that the prizes aren't the same or nearly the sameBA: €309.12 (non-refundable)
SN: €419.12 (non-refundable, for exactly the same flights)
That's indeed a very expensive LCCVLM via LCY: €594.44 (refundable).
Greetz
Chris
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VLM are expensive because they ain't a low cost carrier
Will really miss them this year - and LCY. Manchester has a flat boring approach, and LCY with an Avro is not as good as LCY with a Fokker 50. I have filmed both types on the approach, and no aircraft dives as steeply as the Fokker on the final descent!
Will really miss them this year - and LCY. Manchester has a flat boring approach, and LCY with an Avro is not as good as LCY with a Fokker 50. I have filmed both types on the approach, and no aircraft dives as steeply as the Fokker on the final descent!
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
That's not what they are sayingComet wrote:VLM are expensive because they ain't a low cost carrier
Why have you chosen SNBA if you don't want to miss LCY with the F-50 ?Comet wrote:Will really miss them this year - and LCY. Manchester has a flat boring approach, and LCY with an Avro is not as good as LCY with a Fokker 50. I have filmed both types on the approach, and no aircraft dives as steeply as the Fokker on the final descent
Ciao
Chris
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We chose SNBA because we always liked Sabena and we wanted to try SNBA, but SNBA don't use LCY like Sabena did, so we have to put up with Manchester.
I have no doubt at all that I will love flying with SNBA but I will still miss VLM because I flew with them for the past couple of years.
I have no doubt at all that I will love flying with SNBA but I will still miss VLM because I flew with them for the past couple of years.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
Re: BRU-MAN with SN, MAN-BRU with BA (13 Jan 04)
Thanks for the very detailled report :thumbsup2:sn26567 wrote:2. MAN-BRU BA1620
What a difference for the return flight! I tried to check in at a BA automatic machine, but it did not accept my ticket because it was issued under an SN number. I thus had to queue, and the line was much longer than in Brussels. I got seat 10A. I did not notice any special planes during my wait.
Boarding was on time. The aircraft was an Avro RJ100 of Bristish Airways CityExpress; I did not even bother to check the registration after I saw the seating, but it looked like this:
Seating was, as I feared, 6 abreast, although with leather seats. But in C class, the seats were five abreast, and there were 7 passengers for seven rows (meaning a load factor of only 20%). In economy, for the remaining rows, load factor was 65%. That means that there should have been less rows in C and more in Y.
Nevertheless, there were two neighbours on my right side, and we were like sardines in a box. Departure was on-time at 17:30 and smoother than in the morning flight.
The meal was a single all day deli (mozzarella and onion marmelade on tomato bread: surprising, but not bad). It was quickly served, as there were no less than 4 stewardesses on board (here the number can replace the quality). With that I had a 33 cl can of the only available beer: a UK-brewed Stella Artois. That was also OK.
Brussels was reached in one hour, and after some delay at getting to the gate, I disembarked on time at 19:55.
I said "never again in an Avro with 6 seats abreast", and I confirm; but when you have in a hurry to get home and no other choice, except waiting two and a half more hours for a SN flight, what do you do?
No wonder SNBA is such a success in the UK!
From my ARJ 85's rememberances (12/1997 and 11/2003) I would not like to sit in the 6 seats abreast configuration
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André,
As far I understand, your flight was OK after-all (and safe).
It's obvious that for the amount you paid (unfortunatelly) you would have expect (at least a little) more ..... but that's the market/(code share agreements) at the moment. No competition, .... pay the price (and remember this is a high yield/demanded route).
I agree that as a business men, you look for time/facility ... that's obvious.
It's quit normal, I wouldn't do (or didn't) otherwise.
VLM wouldn't have been any advantage at all ... au contraire !
I have nothing against VLM, but I do agree with the statement of A318.
Greetz,
As far I understand, your flight was OK after-all (and safe).
It's obvious that for the amount you paid (unfortunatelly) you would have expect (at least a little) more ..... but that's the market/(code share agreements) at the moment. No competition, .... pay the price (and remember this is a high yield/demanded route).
I agree that as a business men, you look for time/facility ... that's obvious.
It's quit normal, I wouldn't do (or didn't) otherwise.
VLM wouldn't have been any advantage at all ... au contraire !
I have nothing against VLM, but I do agree with the statement of A318.
Greetz,
Thanks for this excellent trip reprot André!!
This makes people appreciate even more the 5 abreast configuration of SN.
As you said that your return flight was not full, I was wondering how many times the 6-abreast Avro's have an 100%LF, and if the sacrifice of some seats would not benefit most operators of that type.
ciao,
TriStar
This makes people appreciate even more the 5 abreast configuration of SN.
As you said that your return flight was not full, I was wondering how many times the 6-abreast Avro's have an 100%LF, and if the sacrifice of some seats would not benefit most operators of that type.
ciao,
TriStar
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Erwin - can you please tell us all how many times you have flown with VLM that you are such an expert on their in-flight service?A318 wrote:Comet, you really know how to create your own perfect VLM world!
I should call them one time and tell the management they are not a LCC, maybe they change their minds in the future, or they even ask oyu to be the new CEO!!!
Dream on girly and get serious.
Erwin
I would really love to know
If you look at their prices from the UK to Belgium you will see that they are anything but "low cost", indeed SNBA are cheaper! (And I am not very happy at SNBA at the moment )
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
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Re: BRU-MAN with SN, MAN-BRU with BA (13 Jan 04)
You go on one of these of coursesn26567 wrote:
when you have in a hurry to get home and no other choice, except waiting two and a half more hours for a SN flight, what do you do?
What is it? It's the interior of a Fokker 50 that's what!!
Who does it belong to? VLM, that's who. The same VLM who have never screwed up my flight reservations!!!!!!!!
Now that is what I call a comfortable interior (and those seats have a 32" pitch). For a small aircraft they are very comfortable.
Roll on VLM again in 2005!
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
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STOP it NOW. Comet: I don't want to hear one word anymore about VLM in this topic, ok?
Fantastic and well written report, André! I'm surprised the load factor was quite low.
I wondered about one thing: why didn't you check in for your MAN-BRU together with your BRU-MAN? It would surprise me when SN wouldn't allow this when the flight is operated by BA.
Frederic
Fantastic and well written report, André! I'm surprised the load factor was quite low.
I wondered about one thing: why didn't you check in for your MAN-BRU together with your BRU-MAN? It would surprise me when SN wouldn't allow this when the flight is operated by BA.
Frederic
Brussels Airlines - Flying Your Way