Air Belgium: a rebirth?

[Bralo20]

l' Echo article: https://www.lecho.be/economie-politique ... 18/9948143

Normally it isn't behind a paywall (at least here).

[JOVAN]

Oh, and according to 'l Echo one of the requirements of the Wallonian government was that AB has to operate from an airport in Wallonia and Air Belgium has to find private European investors (necessary since the airline has to be 51% European owned) before they join in the capital.

Also according to 'l Echo the other destination in China is Macao while other destinations remain secret.

No Bralo.
It says that MACAO is the other SAR.
Hong Kong has special status.
Macao as well.
Both are SAR.

Article does not say they will fly to Macao.

Lisez à nouveau !

[JOVAN]

The article also says that AB could fly from CRL since there is a Walloon investment ... and that CX will fly to HKG from BRU. On n'est pas sorti de l'auberge as we said in french ( capital/finances and airport ) but we are used to wait...

lisez à nouveau svp

[Passenger]

"...If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline..."

(Quote from a wellknow captain of industry)

[Bralo20]

French is only my 3th language, so mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

[nordikcam]

...Soit Air Belgium démarre des activités de Charleroi dès son lancement, soit elle s’engage à y prévoir des vols dans un avenir proche. Il faut un lien avec la Wallonie", résume une source bien informée.
This means :
Either Air Belgium starts Charleroi's activities as soon as it is launched, or it commits to planning flights in the near future. You need a link with Wallonia ", summarizes a well-informed source.

Source : l'ECHO

[JOVAN]

...Soit Air Belgium démarre des activités de Charleroi dès son lancement, soit elle s’engage à y prévoir des vols dans un avenir proche. Il faut un lien avec la Wallonie", résume une source bien informée.
This means :
Either Air Belgium starts Charleroi's activities as soon as it is launched, or it commits to planning flights in the near future. You need a link with Wallonia ", summarizes a well-informed source.

Source : l'ECHO

correct.
Longer runway in CRL is for after 2020.
Wait and see .

[JOVAN]

French is only my 3th language, so mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

vous faites très bien

[sn26567]

Longer runway in CRL is for after 2020.
Wait and see .

Works will start mid-2018, according to the Walloon 2018 budget. Are 2 years needed to lengthen a runway?

[Passenger]

I have now read the article in L'Echo, and honnestly: the article is a cascade of wrong facts and wishful thinking.

L'Echo mentions that the starting capital is 20,000,000 Euro: "Air Belgium affiche un capital de départ de 20 millions d’euros". Wrong. It's 200,000 Euro by Air Belgium plus 5,000,000 Euro by Avia Invest.

They write that the SFPI and SRIW have decided to step in (at 12,5% each), but a few paragraphs later they say that nothing has been decided yet: En attendant, des partenaires institutionnels publics ont fait part de leur intérêt de monter à bord de la belle aventure aérienne de Niky Terzakis. La Société fédérale de participations et d’investissement (SFPI) et la Société régionale wallonne d’investissement ont décidé de participer au tour de table.

L'Echo also writes that one of the reasons for the delay is the late delivery of the aircraft: "Plusieurs éléments expliquent le retard dans le démarrage des opérations de la nouvelle compagnie. Il y a d’une part la livraison des avions qui a pris du retard..." The aircraft have been stored since months! And the reason they give, is really funny: "Les discussions avec Airbus se sont favorablement clôturées et le premier appareil, un A340-300, devrait être livré à Air Belgium à la mi-novembre". Translated: the discussion with Airbus has been finalized. Euh... Information for the A343's shows that the aircraft don't belong to Airbus, but to Finnair Finance Ltd or another lessor.

Same applies for the commercial plan. "Ils auraient déjà aussi un accord avec des tour-opérateurs chinois pour remplir leur avion à près de 80%". That's not the way it goes in real life. Touroperators work with allmotments: fixed dates, fixed routings, numbers of seats. Air Belgium can't confirm that, so there can't be a contract. Sure, some Chinese touroperators will have told them that they're interested. But with Hainan (active) and Cathay (as from March 2018), there is fierce competition. And allotment contracts include a cancellation fee, so Chinese touroperators can't switch to Air Belgium because they offer better rates.

I'm not going to comment on the designated airport (BRU/LGG/CRL), but L'Echo also writes a lot of nonsense there. They assume that Brussels Airport will accommodate them till the runway at Charleroi Airport has additional length and the terminal has been amended to accommodate the AB Business Class passengers. Seriously? A Business Class lounge for 6 x 18 pax/week?

[Desert Rat]

Finnair bought A350 from airbus, hence I guess Aib owns the 343 and is responsible to resale them.

[Bralo20]

Finnair bought A350 from airbus, hence I guess Aib owns the 343 and is responsible to resale them.

Correct, it was part of the A350 order where they also bought A340's. The deal with the A350's included Airbus buying 4x A340-300's from Finnair.

[Passenger]

I see - but look at their history on Airfleets.net:
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Finn ... d-a340.htm
OH-LQB - Stored 07/2016 - To Air Belgium
OH-LQC - Stored 07/2016 - as F-WXAG - To AIr Belgium
OH-LQD - Stored 10/2016 - to Air Belgium
OH-LQE - Stored 01/2017 - To Air Belgium

L'Echo writes: Plusieurs éléments expliquent le retard dans le démarrage des opérations de la nouvelle compagnie. Il y a d’une part la livraison des avions qui a pris du retard, de même que les procédures d’obtention du droit de trafic (le fameux AOC), qu’Air Belgium n’a toujours pas encore. Les discussions avec Airbus se sont favorablement clôturées et le premier appareil, un A340-300, devrait être livré à Air Belgium à la mi-novembre...

Translated: one of the two reasons why the startup has been delayed, is because of the late delivery of the aircraft... Negociations with Airbus have now been ended successfull and the first A340-300 will be delivered mid November 2017.

Do we have to believe that it took 15 months to negociate the lease of a stored A340-300? No: the only reason why the startup is delayed, is because of the Belgian Civil Aviation Authority, refusing to approve a fair AOC request. Just like they did 15 years ago, with the delay for the AOC for VG Airlines. But Air Belgium can't publicly blame the CAA, because that would lead to even more delay. Hence the "late delivery... Airbus...". And Air Belgium doesn't has an escape route like SHS Aviation / VLM Airlines has via Slovenia.

[JOVAN]

Longer runway in CRL is for after 2020.
Wait and see .

Works will start mid-2018, according to the Walloon 2018 budget. Are 2 years needed to lengthen a runway?

In China: 2 months
In Belgium : between two and five years....

[Desert Rat]

Market for 340 is quite limited nowadays, i'm sure AB got an excellent deal from AIB asset management for the 343 leasing...Probably a bridge towards a more efficient A/C in the future.
350???

[Acid-drop]

Passenger is right, its an awful piece of "journalism" work. Again.

They assume that Brussels Airport will accommodate them till the runway at Charleroi Airport has additional length and the terminal has been amended to accommodate the AB Business Class passengers. Seriously? A Business Class lounge for 6 x 18 pax/week?

People with money will find other options.
CRL can only be cattle class from china to europe.
Bit then why re-invent the wheel, LGG has done that and it seems to work.

Forget the rich/business belgians... who is crazy enough to not fly a serious airline with miles from a serious airport with service

[Passenger]

CRL can only be cattle class from china to europe.
Bit then why re-invent the wheel, LGG has done that and it seems to work.
Forget the rich/business belgians... who is crazy enough to not fly a serious airline with miles from a serious airport with service

This is what L'Ecgho wrote about BRU-LGG-CRL:

En filigrane, on peut déceler le souhait du fonds d’investissement public wallon de voir la nouvelle compagnie organiser des vols au départ d’un aéroport wallon. La plateforme régionale susceptible d’accueillir des vols d’Air Belgium n’est autre que Brussels South Charleroi Airport (BSCA), Liege Airport ayant été écarté du radar pratiquement depuis le début du projet. "Soit Air Belgium démarre des activités de Charleroi dès son lancement, soit elle s’engage à y prévoir des vols dans un avenir proche. Il faut un lien avec la Wallonie", résume une source bien informée. Cette condition de la SRIW pose la question du choix de l’aéroport devant servir de base aux activités d’Air Belgium. Jusqu’il y a peu, Brussels Airport tenait la corde, loin devant Charleroi Airport. L’aéroport national offre plusieurs avantages. Il accueille quotidiennement des dizaines de vols réguliers et offre la connectivité.

[JOVAN]

Passenger is right, its an awful piece of "journalism" work. Again.

Media, Politicians, Bankers,..
indeed ..."telling stories" or "manipulating things"
If half the story is correct, it will be a success.

[Bralo20]

I see - but look at their history on Airfleets.net:
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Finn ... d-a340.htm
OH-LQB - Stored 07/2016 - To Air Belgium
OH-LQC - Stored 07/2016 - as F-WXAG - To AIr Belgium
OH-LQD - Stored 10/2016 - to Air Belgium
OH-LQE - Stored 01/2017 - To Air Belgium

F-WXAG: Il y a 0 aéronef pour votre recherche

cfr http://www.immat.aviation-civile.gouv.f ... liste.html#

[jan_olieslagers]

F-Wxxx ae temporary registrations, used for test flying newly built planes but perhaps also for other situations.