Last election of Belgium

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regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

jan_olieslagers wrote:You want the "white planes" of the 15W, than you have to take and FEED and PAY their principal users too... };-)
and pay the A400's as well ( besides of manufacturing some parts in Wallonie at Sonaca )

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

Desert Rat wrote:I really think Republiek van vlaanderen is a better option for everybody.

you keep the F16's in KB, the navy and the Sykorsky...

We take the C130's/A400M,A333,Embraer and the F16's in Florennes.

Deal???

:D
We keep the Sikorskys to pick Walloon tourists out of the sea, but we will charge them the full bill 8-)

Desert Rat
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by Desert Rat »

regi wrote:We keep the Sikorskys to pick Walloon tourists out of the sea, but we will charge them the full bill 8-)
The Walloon's don't go to the Vlaams kust anymore, they go the French Cote D'opale...it's cheaper...and we are welcomed overthere.... 8-)

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

Desert Rat wrote:
regi wrote:We keep the Sikorskys to pick Walloon tourists out of the sea, but we will charge them the full bill 8-)
The Walloon's don't go to the Vlaams kust anymore, they go the French Cote D'opale...it's cheaper...and we are welcomed overthere.... 8-)
Strange...why is it that my son has to speak French to customers at a restaurant at the coast during the summer? Some German and occasionally English as well- besides of Dutch of course.
His boss told me that the French speaking clientele is probably from Wallonie or Brussels, but no French people. ( they see it on the VISA cards from foreign banks )

chornedsnorkack
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by chornedsnorkack »

How long have you lacked a government? And shall you get another, ever?

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sn26567
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by sn26567 »

chornedsnorkack wrote:How long have you lacked a government? And shall you get another, ever?
We have a caretaker government that, as the name suggests, takes care of everything in the meantime; so, why worry?
André
ex Sabena #26567

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

chornedsnorkack wrote:How long have you lacked a government? And shall you get another, ever?
We don't care. (as long as it doesn't hurt us in the pocket )

Desert Rat
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by Desert Rat »

http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/belgique ... 835107.php

A special one for Regi...;-)))...

Check the forum as well....;-)))...

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

Desert Rat wrote:http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/belgique ... 835107.php

A special one for Regi...;-)))...

Check the forum as well....;-)))...
Thank you for the lead.
The article is just a bit chit chat. But the forum: mon dieu ! :o
I was not aware about the hostility of the French speaking minority of Belgium towards the majority who pays their bills.
A French speaking CEO of Liège told me last week he is happy with the customers I bring him from Flanders, because his Walloon customers prefer Turkish suppliers. :roll:

Specific detail: the French speaking customers seem to find it normal that they are attended to in French at the Flemish coast. But are they also aware that the employers have great difficulties to find French speaking youngsters during holidays to come to work there? They easely have 1500 euro nett, food and boarding for free. But still, no youngsters from Brussels or Wallonie seem to find it attractive enough to work in Flanders - despite they can speak their own language.
Towards those hostile French speakers I would say: send your spoiled brads over to the Flemish coast to learn what working means, and what earning an income is.

Positive side note:
having a quick expresso at arrivals at Zaventem last Friday, I was spoken to in Dutch, despite the waiter is native French speaking. I think it is the first time in the > 20 years I come at Zaventem that French speaking service staff adopted to the customer.

Extra note:
Those French speaking customers who prefer to stay away from the coast "to leave no money with those Flemish", are they aware about the millions of British who fly Ryanair, headquartered at Ireland? :twisted:

Desert Rat
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by Desert Rat »

regi wrote: Thank you for the lead.
You are welcome Khun Regi!!

I will not fully comment your post I will just ask you ...who was paying the bills 50 years ago?...

Anyway, I keep my fingers crossed for your new and perfect future country: de Republiek van Vlanderen.

Sawadee krab... ;) ...

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

Desert Rat wrote:
regi wrote: Thank you for the lead.
You are welcome Khun Regi!!
I will not fully comment your post I will just ask you ...who was paying the bills 50 years ago?...

Anyway, I keep my fingers crossed for your new and perfect future country: de Republiek van Vlanderen.
Sawadee krab... ;) ...
The Flemish were paying for the bills by working at low wages in the factories of the Société Générale.
Personnal family related example: BN , the train factory at Bruges. Constructed here because of massive availability of cheap labour.
Very sad for the Flemish was that they had no - zero - nada - promotion opportunities because their French was not sufficient. Just when things started to get a bit better, Congo got its independance and thousands of Belgian colonial employees returned to Belgium and were given jobs at the same level. Again, it were French speaking ex colonials who got mid managment functions at BN instead of the Flemish.
The same situation existed at ACEC at Gent and at the coal mines in Limburg. I wonder what Flemish Sabena anciens can add to that. :roll:
It is an insult to the thousands of poor Flemish migrant workers who did the dirty work at the coal mines and steel factories to claim that Wallonie was paying the bills.
The big difference with the past is that we see "no" Walloon workers at West-Flanders, but many French border labourers.
No Flemish employer understands that Walloon workers stay away despite high unemployment numbers in Brussels and Wallonie. The wages are the same.
So the jobs are filled by Polish and other immigrants and French border labourers.
As a good example how I witness Walloon mentality: companies I know very well at Moeskroen, Wallonie, cannot find Walloon workers, and half of their personnel is ...Flemish, and a considerable amount is French.
Job agencies in Nord-Pas De Calais organize Dutch language lessons to improve the job opportunities of unemployed French people from the north.
Just had my son his employer on the line. Frustrated because of lack of personnel in his restaurant at the coast. 12 euro / hour as a waiter is still not attractive enough for the youngsters of Brussels or Charleroi. :(

You refer to a splendid Flemish Republic. I rather would have a kind of heriditary leadership instead of a presidency. :?: It saves a lot on election costs. Sadly enough, the title of Count of Flanders is given to the Belgian prince. I have my doubts about the acceptability of prince Filip as Count of Flanders to underwrite the laws made by the Flemish Parliament. :) . I accept royalty/heriditary leadership with very limited power as a matter of stability cfr. the role of the Thai king Bhumiphol in the 1992 conflict between Suchinda and Chamlong. ( so not every Flemish is a republican, and not every Flemish nationalist is in favour of BDW 8-) )

I have no doubt that in case of a split, the leaders of Flanders will search the money in every corner to fill the gaps. Maybe they will adopt the most recent plan of the Dutch government who wants to adjust disability payments and widow pensions to the cost of living of the country where the receiver lives. ( not yet for pensioners, and at this moment only pointed towards people who live outside the EU) The Dutch government also wants to scrap child support for children living outside the EU. I am quite sure that few Flemish would disagree that somebody with a back problem living in Thailand would get less than living in France. And when this person dies , his Thai widow would get less than in a more expensive country. If she objects, she can always return to the land of friet met stoofvlees and get the full pay out. Thailand is a bad example: We all know that this new plan is not directed towards the rather few foreigners living in Thailand, but is directed towards the Morroccon and Turkish community.

Wow, what a reply. :mrgreen:

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

Desert Rat wrote:
regi wrote: Thank you for the lead.
You are welcome Khun Regi!!
I will not fully comment your post I will just ask you ...who was paying the bills 50 years ago?...
Anyway, I keep my fingers crossed for your new and perfect future country: de Republiek van Vlanderen.
Sawadee krab... ;) ...
and to stick with the numbers, the problem child Wallonie is costing us more and more.
Just in Dutch:
http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... d=UD39E2FJ

So this report proves that the current situation costs every Flemish 1800 € a year, on the one way highway of monetary transfer southbound.

With the unification of Germany, they solved this quite practically: West-German companies received high subsidies to take over companies from the Treuhand as long as they could guarrantee at least some jobs. And general wages were just 60% in East-Germany. Result was that many young East Germans fled the region towards the large cities in West Germany. But we saw also a complete new breed of inventive, responsable East Germans who could do at last what they had in mind for so many years: to be an entrepreneur.

In the UK it was solved in a different way. The power of the unions was clipped, the mines were closed in the north and the new car companies in the north were given special conditions to employ jobless. ( flexability, lower wages, no union action allowed in the new companies) That were the days of Thatcher.

Wallonie and Brussels have to be very careful that the Flemish at a certain moment would say" OK, if we are not allowed to interfere how the money is spent, keep your system and pay it yourself"

By the way, a split doesn't have to be painful. You don't hear many complaints from Czechs or Slovaks after their arranged marriage was dissolved.

Desert Rat
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by Desert Rat »

I totally agree with you khun Regi, a split will solve a lot of problems between both communities...

I'm just counting the day to vote again for NVA... ;) ...

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

Desert Rat wrote:I totally agree with you khun Regi, a split will solve a lot of problems between both communities...

I'm just counting the day to vote again for NVA... ;) ...
Euh, I am not sure if we have to split at all!
The easiest thing to do would go back to a unified Belgium. The outside world thinks that the Flemish would oppose that idea most vigerously. But reality is that the communities which profited most of the federal state model are the politicians in Wallonie and Brussels.
Just start counting all the parliaments we have and you know enough.
The federal state of today protects the French speaking minority of having to live according the laws of the majority.

To be honnest, I have no clear idea about what would be the best solution. But when I see every week the difference in living conditions of the Flemish and the Walloon people, I am convinced that it would be better for the Walloon people to throw their PS State overboard and get real. We Flemish had here also our CVP state in the 70'ies and eighties. And we realised that such a monopolistic encapsulation was suffocating society.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Still surprised we are allowed to continue this thread...

I tend to agree with Regi on several points: I see no more urge to split the country than he does; actually I remember the old Volksunie slogan "Met Belgie als het kan, zonder Belgie als het moet"* which still holds true for me today. And it seems obvious indeed that the only reason the PS could ever be convinced to accept federalisation was the huge amount of titles and functions it created - so many clients who could be satisfied!

I also seem to discern a trend to improvement in Wallonia: I know several Wallonians who seem to have well understood they can't live forever on the long gone glory of their heavy industries. They see the need to WORK, for themselves and for the others - and incidentally the same people make serious efforts of speaking Dutch, some of them to very good results. But Wallonia has to recover from a very long winter sleep, they can't be expected to change overnight. On the longer term, Flanders and Wallonia could be good neighbours; actually as things are going, I'd not be surprised to see Wallonia overtaking Flanders in a couple of decades, at least in matters of trade and economy.

The one problem that remains is Brussels - I know several Brussels people who see no need at all to change from the style and habits of their parents and grandparents; they still take it for granted they can go and live where they please and behave there as they like - hence the BHV argument, totally irrelevant for Wallonia. And it is in Brussels that I know a couple of guys who stubbornly refuse to even try speaking Dutch. Admittedly, even in Brussels youngsters seem to be less stubborn; yet some of them still seem to wonder "et on voudrait qu'je sois serieux" **

And yes, the media have a heavy responsability in this matter. For myself I mainly blame the Brussels French-language media, both broadcast and printed. And it is no surprise to me that there remains little or no Wallonian newspapers of any national importance.

* "With Belgium if it can be done, without Belgium if we have to"
** "And they really want me to be serious?" from the Jaques Brel chanson "C'etait au temps..."

Desert Rat
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by Desert Rat »

You are really funny Jan...Can you just remind me who left the Vlaaams Radio Televisie and join your holly-glory nationalistic party?

Siegfried...and I'm not talking about the line....

No problem with your media then??...hmmm interresting, no biaised informations at all you think?

Keep on dreaming my friend.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Check the exact meaning of "mainly" before making white vs. black responses. I never said NO problem. And do not over-magnify the example of one single person. Serious discussion is very welcome, but even in a pub one should be honest in discussion.

I have to agree, though, that our public broadcast organisations have a long tradition of close interweaving with politics - that at least is a constant value in ALL of Belgium!

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

jan_olieslagers wrote:Still surprised we are allowed to continue this thread...
"
No problem, we are in the pub and could keep our nerves in control of insulting eachother. 8-)

Still a aviation related question somewhere buried in my too long response: Can somebody give a testimony how it was to be a Flemish in the old Sabena days ? ( career opportunities, incentives, shedules for personnel etcetera )

chornedsnorkack
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by chornedsnorkack »

regi wrote: You refer to a splendid Flemish Republic. I rather would have a kind of heriditary leadership instead of a presidency. :?: It saves a lot on election costs. Sadly enough, the title of Count of Flanders is given to the Belgian prince. I have my doubts about the acceptability of prince Filip as Count of Flanders to underwrite the laws made by the Flemish Parliament. :) . I accept royalty/heriditary leadership with very limited power as a matter of stability cfr. the role of the Thai king Bhumiphol in the 1992 conflict between Suchinda and Chamlong. ( so not every Flemish is a republican, and not every Flemish nationalist is in favour of BDW 8-) )
Which member of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha dynasty would you prefer as the Count or Countess of Flanders?

regi
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Re: Last election of Belgium

Post by regi »

chornedsnorkack wrote:
regi wrote: You refer to a splendid Flemish Republic. I rather would have a kind of heriditary leadership instead of a presidency. :?: It saves a lot on election costs. Sadly enough, the title of Count of Flanders is given to the Belgian prince. I have my doubts about the acceptability of prince Filip as Count of Flanders to underwrite the laws made by the Flemish Parliament. :) . I accept royalty/heriditary leadership with very limited power as a matter of stability cfr. the role of the Thai king Bhumiphol in the 1992 conflict between Suchinda and Chamlong. ( so not every Flemish is a republican, and not every Flemish nationalist is in favour of BDW 8-) )
Which member of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha dynasty would you prefer as the Count or Countess of Flanders?
legitimate or no legitimate decendant? :twisted:
Maybe...euh...Delphine Boël ? ( her family name provokes immediately controversy by writing it in Dutch : BOEL, meaning argument, problem) It would bring some colour to our establishment.
No, the problem is that the official title has been taken over by the existing royalty. And I doubt if this dynasty still would be accepted in the case of a split. So we could democratically apoint a citizen to become Count of Flanders and make it hereditary. So for example Count Bart I :P . With his 4 offsprings we have already a guarrantee for the succession. And as a self declared WCM ( White Christian Male ) he reflects the majority of the Flemish (male) population.
Other proposals are Wouter Van Bellingen. His name sounds almost mediaval. Bellingen is a small village just north of the language barrier, so still Flemish. He has also already 2 offsprings, and he is protestant. And his adoptive parents are from real pro-Flemish backgrounds. Not so white as some people would wish, but that is just a detail that will be erased by further inbreeding with "real" Flemish. :)
And for those who say that the Count should have been born on Flemish soil, we still can ask it at Wouter Van Besien.

Come on guys, let's have a laugh...

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