Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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rwandan-flyer
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Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by rwandan-flyer »

JOVAN2 wrote: 09 May 2024, 19:00 DELTA KLM AF has over 35 destination in USA and DN.
With sometimes 2 or 3 flights a day.
Also UK is primary market, as Scandinavia and Poland.
AMS and CDG are huge Hubs with many African destinations.

Thanks to genius CS and his sergeants SN stands there in its underwear.
UA would already have done a lot more if BRU and SN were worth it. LH has treated SN as a leprosis airline for over 15 years now, systematically exhausting them as a vulture-shareholder.

You may continue with your gaslighting adoration of LH. Result will be zero for SN.Nada.
You have a perspective from the Belgium side by thinking that everything is perfect at Air France. And that the airline is invincible. Air France has not succeeded in everything and it has closed some long haul routess in recent years (Kuala Lumpur, Amman, Seychelles, Damas, Brasilia, Teheran, Guangzhou, Chennai, Taipei, Wuhan, Male, Colombo, Muscat, Jeddah, Ryad, Monrovia, Banjul, Freetown, Montevideo, Santo Domingo)

Air France is probably more criticized in France (member of parliament, independent commission, ministers, population) than Brussels Airlines in Belgium

Back to Africa

I don't invent anything, i m not pro LH, i just repeat what Ben Smith (which if i m right the Air France CEO who has the access to all data) has said about Air France network in Africa. The AF network in Africa is probably huge but not adapted to the current trend.

Focused on the former French Colonial Empire, low frequencies on many routes, too many tags service and probably before the arrival of B Smith many routes were served by Aircraft not retrofited with new cabins.

Douala and Yaounde could have a better capacity by using bigger aircraft but you have tag the flights with Bangui and Malabo by using the A330-200. Strange since they dropped OUA, Accra is more and more served by 777-200ER replacing the A330 operated via OUA


Niamey (suspended), N’Djamena, Nouakchott Bangui, Ouagadougou (suspended), Cotonou (in the winter) are not served daily. Djibouti only one flight a week. And they are not most competitve market in Africa.

Turkish Airlines, Ethiopian Airlines or Qatar Airways are rubing their hands. Turkish Airlines is non African airline which has the biggest network in Africa.

Since the arrival of B Smith, Air France has opened a regional HQ in Kenya (https://theaviator.co.ug/air-france-klm ... n-nairobi/) like...... Lutfhansa Group did, started to target premium customer (https://www-lechotouristique-com.transl ... r_pto=wapp)

Since the crisis in late 2000s, AF was not focused to Africa. The arrival of Ben Smith late 2010s has seen AF back to Africa.

Interview of B Smith about Africa network
he looked at Air France’s Africa network, one of the company’s jewels. France no longer rules much of the continent, but Air France retains air rights other airlines covet.

Smith didn’t like what he saw. In his previous job, as chief operating officer of Air Canada, he preferred simplicity and consistency, and Air France’s network is, well, complicated. Many routes operate less than daily, and some go in a circle, like AF 775, which twice weekly departs Paris for Bangui, capital of the Central African Republic, before stopping in Yaoundé, capital of Cameroon, and sitting for about four hours before returning home.

Sometimes there are reasons for odd routings, like security concerns, but worldwide, Smith said, the airline’s operation is more complex than it needs to be, a reason the carrier underperforms its peers on many financial metrics.
“You go look at the Air France African network and you just go, ‘What is this?'” Smith said. “It’s like this tangled web.”
He’s not the first person to notice Air France’s complexity. Rivals often talk about the airline’s potential, saying they envy its strengths, including its iconic brand, vast global route network, and Paris hub. But since its 2004 merger with KLM, Air France has languished as its two main European rivals overhauled their businesses. Rivals have cut bloated infrastructure; Air France retains a legendary bureaucracy.
https://skift.com/2019/07/02/new-air-fr ... ir-france/
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TimTam
Posts: 55
Joined: 19 Mar 2024, 19:04

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by TimTam »

Still @obe, the time of loss making State owned airlines is indeed over. Look at Aegean, LOT and now even TAP. Time has done some clean up.

fcw
Posts: 782
Joined: 01 Nov 2006, 23:20

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by fcw »

TimTam wrote: 08 May 2024, 23:27 If you see the expansion plans of EasyJet it is again obvious to me that SN needs A321 long range to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western abd Central Africa.
Seriously?
What on earth do the plans of easyJet have in common with SN operations to Africa? You’ll probably feel bashed, but this would be exactly the same as saying: if you see Real Madrid is buying Mbappé it is again obvious to me that Beerschot needs Erling Haaland…
Last edited by fcw on 12 May 2024, 13:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Atlantis
Posts: 4995
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Atlantis »

Delta Sierra wrote: 08 May 2024, 13:42
nordikcam wrote: 08 May 2024, 12:50
Delta Sierra wrote: 02 May 2024, 09:20 OO-SFC still in MAN for C-check till the 8th of May.
OO-SFD will leave today to SIN for C-check probably till the end of May.
OO-SFB will normally go to the paintshop at the end of May
OO-SFC apparently extends its English stay...
OO-SFF will go to MAN on Friday for C-check and
OO-SFC will return home on Friday.

D-AIKG did a test flight on the 29th of April but still not confirmed when the aircraft will be ferried to Brussels.
And if it is not enough, OO-SFX, A330 had AOG at BRU.

OO-SSN, A319, is parked. No idea why as it was operating till recently.

TimTam
Posts: 55
Joined: 19 Mar 2024, 19:04

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by TimTam »

fcw wrote: 12 May 2024, 13:25
TimTam wrote: 08 May 2024, 23:27 If you see the expansion plans of EasyJet it is again obvious to me that SN needs A321 long range to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western abd Central Africa.
Seriously?
What on earth do the plans of easyJet have in common with SN operations to Africa? You’ll probably feel bashed, but this would be exactly the same as saying: if you see Real Madrid is buying Mbappé it is again obvious to me that Beerschot needs Erling Haaland…
OK, mentioning Easyjet because it starts flying to West Africa was a mistake because, so far, they will only fly to Cape Verde.

As to your comparison Beerschot/Haaland I think you missed my point. I am not suggesting a 777X for SN, "just" the A321LR to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western Africa without triangular flights.

Homo Aeroportus
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Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Atlantis wrote: 12 May 2024, 13:26
Delta Sierra wrote: 08 May 2024, 13:42
nordikcam wrote: 08 May 2024, 12:50

OO-SFC apparently extends its English stay...
OO-SFF will go to MAN on Friday for C-check and
OO-SFC will return home on Friday.

D-AIKG did a test flight on the 29th of April but still not confirmed when the aircraft will be ferried to Brussels.
And if it is not enough, OO-SFX, A330 had AOG at BRU.

OO-SSN, A319, is parked. No idea why as it was operating till recently.
SN501 to JFK : Cancelled on 25APR, 07MAY, 10MAY, 12MAY.
SN515 to IAD : Cancelled on 04MAY, 11MAY.

The Propaganda Abteilung will explain you why this is not significant, BRU being such small place and SN flying to such derelict places.

Comes a moment when arrogance makes them blind.

H.A.

fcw
Posts: 782
Joined: 01 Nov 2006, 23:20

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by fcw »

TimTam wrote: 12 May 2024, 14:17 OK, mentioning Easyjet because it starts flying to West Africa was a mistake because, so far, they will only fly to Cape Verde.

As to your comparison Beerschot/Haaland I think you missed my point. I am not suggesting a 777X for SN, "just" the A321LR to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western Africa without triangular flights.

EasyJet will only fly from some of their Portugese bases to Sal.
As for missing your point, I think you are missing your own point! The A321 could be a good idea but using a LCC flight from Portugal to Cabo Verde as an argument to justify it is the same nonsense as Beerschot buying Haaland.

oldblueeyes
Posts: 275
Joined: 13 Apr 2020, 12:44

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

Easyjet is a LCC without any focus on cargo business.

I would assume that SN is counting on some belly cargo revenue, which won't be part of the economics in any 321LR.

Not surprisingly, LH is seeing the 321LR and XLR rather as a part of Eurowings and the current 40 A320family options may be part of this game.

But - in such case Eurowings would look to serve "the South" as well, which means obviously Africa.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4fQKiG ... 5dec164a79

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 1010
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by rwandan-flyer »

TimTam wrote: 12 May 2024, 14:17
fcw wrote: 12 May 2024, 13:25
TimTam wrote: 08 May 2024, 23:27 If you see the expansion plans of EasyJet it is again obvious to me that SN needs A321 long range to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western abd Central Africa.
Seriously?
What on earth do the plans of easyJet have in common with SN operations to Africa? You’ll probably feel bashed, but this would be exactly the same as saying: if you see Real Madrid is buying Mbappé it is again obvious to me that Beerschot needs Erling Haaland…
OK, mentioning Easyjet because it starts flying to West Africa was a mistake because, so far, they will only fly to Cape Verde.

As to your comparison Beerschot/Haaland I think you missed my point. I am not suggesting a 777X for SN, "just" the A321LR to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western Africa without triangular flights.
SN is already serving Africa with good frequencies. We can see on some markets there is room to add more flights, like Kigali which will be served daily or some West African routes that will see more flights with the adding of another A330 (Accra, Lome, Banjul)

LH Group will use the right aircraft (A321LR or A330) for the right market. It's not because that TAP uses A321Neo / A321Neo on all its West African services that it will be succesfull for Brussels Airliens with the A321LR on its West African routes.

They are too many factors and data that we don't know: yield, cost of fligt for the airline, cargo demand, point to point demand, demand via a hub (from A to C via B**),...

** point to point demand btw Kigali and Montreal is 15 160 pax from Sept22 to Aug23 (13 121 between Washington and Kigali)

An average of 42 passengers fly every day between YUL & KGL and 35 IAD & KGL . How many pax Brussels Airlines can have ? Based on the fact that KLM, Turkish Airlines and Qatar Airways (RwandAoir seves Doha in code share with QR) serves Montreal from Kigali via their hubs, but also Ethiopian (direc flight to Washington) and Kenya Airways via Nairobi and New York. Even Egyptair to IAD but with a long layover

You have do the same calculation for all African destinations serve by SN with all SN network and all Star Alliance airlines serving BRU.
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TimTam
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Joined: 19 Mar 2024, 19:04

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by TimTam »

fcw wrote: 12 May 2024, 15:01
TimTam wrote: 12 May 2024, 14:17 OK, mentioning Easyjet because it starts flying to West Africa was a mistake because, so far, they will only fly to Cape Verde.

As to your comparison Beerschot/Haaland I think you missed my point. I am not suggesting a 777X for SN, "just" the A321LR to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western Africa without triangular flights.

EasyJet will only fly from some of their Portugese bases to Sal.
As for missing your point, I think you are missing your own point! The A321 could be a good idea but using a LCC flight from Portugal to Cabo Verde as an argument to justify it is the same nonsense as Beerschot buying Haaland.
I think you did not understand my two very different paragraphs.

TimTam
Posts: 55
Joined: 19 Mar 2024, 19:04

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by TimTam »

Homo Aeroportus wrote: 12 May 2024, 14:32
Atlantis wrote: 12 May 2024, 13:26
Delta Sierra wrote: 08 May 2024, 13:42

OO-SFF will go to MAN on Friday for C-check and
OO-SFC will return home on Friday.

D-AIKG did a test flight on the 29th of April but still not confirmed when the aircraft will be ferried to Brussels.
And if it is not enough, OO-SFX, A330 had AOG at BRU.

OO-SSN, A319, is parked. No idea why as it was operating till recently.
SN501 to JFK : Cancelled on 25APR, 07MAY, 10MAY, 12MAY.
SN515 to IAD : Cancelled on 04MAY, 11MAY.

The Propaganda Abteilung will explain you why this is not significant, BRU being such small place and SN flying to such derelict places.

Comes a moment when arrogance makes them blind.

H.A.
I agree with you, but I am probably the only one here.
Others will say that within the Group's strategy, there is no problem rerouting pax on these cancelled flights through FRA is no problem. They keep their eyes wide shut.
All this has bad taste of deja vu.

TimTam
Posts: 55
Joined: 19 Mar 2024, 19:04

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by TimTam »

Homo Aeroportus wrote: 12 May 2024, 14:32
Atlantis wrote: 12 May 2024, 13:26
Delta Sierra wrote: 08 May 2024, 13:42

OO-SFF will go to MAN on Friday for C-check and
OO-SFC will return home on Friday.

D-AIKG did a test flight on the 29th of April but still not confirmed when the aircraft will be ferried to Brussels.
And if it is not enough, OO-SFX, A330 had AOG at BRU.

OO-SSN, A319, is parked. No idea why as it was operating till recently.
SN501 to JFK : Cancelled on 25APR, 07MAY, 10MAY, 12MAY.
SN515 to IAD : Cancelled on 04MAY, 11MAY.

The Propaganda Abteilung will explain you why this is not significant, BRU being such small place and SN flying to such derelict places.

Comes a moment when arrogance makes them blind.

H.A.
I am probably the only one here to agree with you.
Others will say that within the Group's strategy there is no problem rerouting pax on these cancelled flights through FRA. It's amazing that some are observing this bad taste of deja vu with their eyes wide shut.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Atlantis »

Why do you think that you are the only one? I think many. You can reroute pax via your partners in the group but when it's happening on a weekly basis, it's not OK. Business pax don't want to fly via, they want to fly direct. The same for other pax.

On this way they will not grow in pax and in profit. If the CEO is saying that they depend on the tenth A330, then you have to make sure that all other 9 are flying too.

Winter is the more calmer time but almost no A330 was in maintenance. Now there are several even one for painting. Paint cannot wait?

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 »

OO-SFP (D-AIKG) should be transfered to BRU this week. She will keep her Lufthansa livery with Brussels Airlines sticker untill winter when she will go to the paint shop.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Atlantis »

crew1990 wrote: 13 May 2024, 10:38 OO-SFP (D-AIKG) should be transfered to BRU this week. She will keep her Lufthansa livery with Brussels Airlines sticker untill winter when she will go to the paint shop.
D-AIKG was really some time out of roulation. First maintenance but after a couple of weeks just standing in DUS. Could that time not be used to fly it directly to the paintshop? Now there is a mix of 3, 4 liveries on long haul.

As you know, I'm pro SN but this is insane. This is bad for your brand image.

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 »

It s not beacause an aircraft is not flying that it's free to go somewhere else to be painted. OO-SFP is simply having some work done to be ready to integrate the SN fleet. No there is no time to go to the paintshop, this aircraft is needed at the homebase asap

oldblueeyes
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Joined: 13 Apr 2020, 12:44

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

An interview with the CEO (in German) but pretty straight forward strategic choices on fleet. And addiitonal insights to phantasies circulating here about the A321XLR and it "lost opportunity" for armchair CEO's.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/

Key messages:

- new A320NEO's to join the fleet likely in 1-2 years
- A319 would stay for the time being so the 320NEO's would be added as expansion
-A321NEO are also considered for routes with heavy demand (London, Nice, Malaga)

- A321XLR is not an option - traffic to Africa is ethnic and the average baggage per customer is 70kg! - thus cargo space needed
- A330 NEO is not an option due to noise restriction
- the new generation replacing the A330CEO should be either A350 or B787; existing 330 can fly until they are 25 y old


- B737 MAX is rather not an option
-A223 has no commonality yet with the A320

- average growth plan of 2 narrov bodies per year
- SN can afford to expand by 1 widebody per year
- 45 or 46 aircraft end of 2025

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lumumba
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Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba »

oldblueeyes wrote: 13 May 2024, 12:40 An interview with the CEO (in German) but pretty straight forward strategic choices on fleet. And addiitonal insights to phantasies circulating here about the A321XLR and it "lost opportunity" for armchair CEO's.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/

Key messages:

- new A320NEO's to join the fleet likely in 1-2 years
- A319 would stay for the time being so the 320NEO's would be added as expansion
-A321NEO are also considered for routes with heavy demand (London, Nice, Malaga)

- A321XLR is not an option - traffic to Africa is ethnic and the average baggage per customer is 70kg! - thus cargo space needed
- A330 NEO is not an option due to noise restriction
- the new generation replacing the A330CEO should be either A350 or B787; existing 330 can fly until they are 25 y old


- B737 MAX is rather not an option
-A223 has no commonality yet with the A320

- average growth plan of 2 narrov bodies per year
- SN can afford to expand by 1 widebody per year
- 45 or 46 aircraft end of 2025
But the A330 NEO he doesn't make any more noise they share the same technology with there new engines?!

For the A321 XLR It's not possible they can take as much baggage as they want without problem, the problem is rather at the cargo level on these destinations you will fly very little cargo that's true.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

oldblueeyes
Posts: 275
Joined: 13 Apr 2020, 12:44

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

One major point was that BRU has noise cap as from 2031/32, thus the number of flights can't be rather increased after a certain level, thus the only solution would be larger aircraft.

So likely in the overall picture there may be additional factors putting the 330 NEO outside or at least at the edge of the scorecard results.

TimTam
Posts: 55
Joined: 19 Mar 2024, 19:04

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by TimTam »

Apparently, the A330neo will be too noisy when landing and will not meet the future noise caps at BRU.
On long thin routes to Africa, triangular flights are "accepted". Or acceptable ?

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