Air Belgium: a rebirth?

[Passenger]

I see - but look at their history on Airfleets.net:
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Finn ... d-a340.htm
OH-LQB - Stored 07/2016 - To Air Belgium
OH-LQC - Stored 07/2016 - as F-WXAG - To AIr Belgium
OH-LQD - Stored 10/2016 - to Air Belgium
OH-LQE - Stored 01/2017 - To Air Belgium

F-WXAG: Il y a 0 aéronef pour votre recherche
cfr http://www.immat.aviation-civile.gouv.f ... liste.html#

On 10th May 2017, OH-LQC flew from Helsinki to Teruel (Spain).
On 17th May 2017, Ch-Aviation.com added in its file: "Remarks: to be re-registered as F-WXAG"
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/aircraft/11323

Airfleets.net also noted that F-WXAG. Apparently, its has already been deregistered since.

[DannyVDB]

Longer runway in CRL is for after 2020.
Wait and see .

Works will start mid-2018, according to the Walloon 2018 budget. Are 2 years needed to lengthen a runway?

In China: 2 months
In Belgium : between two and five years....

Maybe, but delivery of the AOC might just be delayed because there is no clear financial guarantee things will work out (no sound business plan). How many airlines did start in the past without appropriate funding ... At the end it is the tax payer and pax that will have to pay if things go wrong. Maybe Airbus only wanted (rightfully) to sign an agreement when there were real guarantees and no 'vague' promises and to be honest I don't like the 'hold-me-or-I-do-somthing bahaviour': claims and big plans are easy to shout about, but real operational/commercial/... set-up of an airline is another matter.

By the way, I think the most probable scenario for AB - if it takes off - is that they start some operations, but they are taken over by SN/EW after a few years (when lack of money will push them to the exit).

I loved city bird (especially their dark green livery ) but they were also absorbed by SN after a few years ... .

D

[Passenger]

Maybe, but delivery of the AOC might just be delayed because there is no clear financial guarantee things will work out (no sound business plan). How many airlines did start in the past without appropriate funding ... At the end it is the tax payer and pax that will have to pay if things go wrong.

I'm quite sure that they had a very solid business plan when they started, back in February 2016. They had the brains (with Niki Terzakis) and they had overseas investors. But seriously: it's very abnormal that the CAA needs almost two years to give them their AOC.

Maybe Airbus only wanted (rightfully) to sign an agreement when there were real guarantees and no 'vague' promises and to be honest I don't like the 'hold-me-or-I-do-somthing bahaviour': claims and big plans are easy to shout about, but real operational/commercial/... set-up of an airline is another matter.

There is no problem with Airbus. It's brought now in that newspaper article, as kind of excuse not to blame only the Belgian CAA.

[JOVAN]

Maybe, but delivery of the AOC might just be delayed because there is no clear financial guarantee things will work out (no sound business plan). How many airlines did start in the past without appropriate funding ... At the end it is the tax payer and pax that will have to pay if things go wrong.

I'm quite sure that they had a very solid business plan when they started, back in February 2016. They had the brains (with Niki Terzakis) and they had overseas investors. But seriously: it's very abnormal that the CAA needs almost two years to give them their AOC.

Maybe Airbus only wanted (rightfully) to sign an agreement when there were real guarantees and no 'vague' promises and to be honest I don't like the 'hold-me-or-I-do-somthing bahaviour': claims and big plans are easy to shout about, but real operational/commercial/... set-up of an airline is another matter.

There is no problem with Airbus. It's brought now in that newspaper article, as kind of excuse not to blame only the Belgian CAA.

You should know that this FODs (federal agencies) and similar "units" are run like little kingdoms.
The so-called "Top ambtenaren" and (part of ) their administration are acting like little masters of the universe.

In the same newspaper where I found the article about Air Belgium, (de Tijd), there is an article with title "Van Overtveldt fluit fiscus terug .." On page 4 of the same Newspaper you can read that the Administration of this Minister is going there own way about interpreting some (fiscal) laws.

Same or similar situation with the Immigration and Airport Police (via their Unions).
Same or similar situation with Belgian CAA.
little states within the state.

Ministers have (almost) no influence and are not followed by their own administration.

I hope AB will start soon, and succeed.
But the long, long waiting time is really exaggerated.
MR. Terzakis is really a gentleman and very patient.

If he fails, I hope one day we will know about what happpened and who / why / ... there was such a big obstruction to a beautiful project.

[TLspotting]

According to ch-aviation,the ICAO code of Air Belgium will be ABB

[sn26567]

According to ch-aviation,the ICAO code of Air Belgium will be ABB

No IATA code yet? AB should become available soon...

[ZavCity]

Hallo
this is the same ICAO code as the old AIR BELGIUM
gtz
paul

[sn26567]

this is the same ICAO code as the old AIR BELGIUM

The old Air Belgium had AJ as IATA code. But the new one cannot adopt it, as it now belongs to AeroContractors of Nigeria. Hence my idea that AB might be transferred from Air Berlin which has disappeared.

[ZavCity]

Hi
On "teletext" in the old days, the abbreviation was ABB (737/757)although...
gtz
paul

[Desert Rat]

There is no problem with Airbus. It's brought now in that newspaper article, as kind of excuse not to blame only the Belgian CAA.

There might be some problems...not with Airbus, but with the A/C's themselves, when they were returned by Finnair , they were probably at the end of some structural potential, meaning some heavy inspections/repairs needed to be C/O, and leadtime for some specific structural A340 parts sometime is long due to obsolescence/out of production A340 parts. These parts need to be manufactured and are not anymore on shelves. That could explain the delay...may be!

[sn26567]

There is no problem with Airbus. It's brought now in that newspaper article, as kind of excuse not to blame only the Belgian CAA.

There might be some problems...not with Airbus, but with the A/C's themselves, when they were returned by Finnair , they were probably at the end of some structural potential, meaning some heavy inspections/repairs needed to be C/O, and leadtime for some specific structural A340 parts sometime is long due to obsolescence/out of production A340 parts. These parts need to be manufactured and are not anymore on shelves. That could explain the delay...may be!

Are you sure? 95% of the A340 is the same as the A330 which is still produced.

[Desert Rat]

5% difference means sometimes 6 months leadtime...also around the cruciform / primary structure there's some very specific parts...it's just a guess though...i'm not involved in this business, it's just to explain that sometimes parts are not on the shelves anymore and it can creates delay in return to Ops of specific type of A/C's, and 340 is a good exemple.
On the other hand I wonder what's the monthly lease rate of a 340 that already clocked a significant life of operation...
500k$?

[Passenger]

There is no problem with Airbus, there is no technical problem with the four designated aircraft, there is no problem with A340 parts. The only source for those problems is unreliable. It's that famous article in L'Echo, and the journalist was mislead. His source didn't want a press article, focussing on public servants, over-acting their duty to safeguard the Belgian airspace. The Belgian CAA indeed. Hence the source invented a second reason: "a problem with Airbus".

[sean1982]

There is no problem with Airbus, there is no technical problem with the four designated aircraft, there is no problem with A340 parts. ".

source for that statement?

[Passenger]

There is no problem with Airbus, there is no technical problem with the four designated aircraft, there is no problem with A340 parts. ".

source for that statement?

Source: the A340's aren't grounded.

So you tell me what the technical problem is, with source for that please.

[sean1982]

There is no problem with Airbus, there is no technical problem with the four designated aircraft, there is no problem with A340 parts. ".

source for that statement?

Source: the A340's aren't grounded.

So you tell me what the technical problem is, with source for that please.

Im not saying otherwise, just wondering what the source is of the fact that these airplanes are in top state and no work in them is needed?

A good friend of mine was offered a job with them as SCCM and showed me the preliminary contract which looks a bit laughable to be honest:

2100€ brutto basic
3€/hr on duty
Pension and medical plan

Quite below industry average.

[Passenger]

Source: the A340's aren't grounded.So you tell me what the technical problem is, with source for that please.

Im not saying otherwise, just wondering what the source is of the fact that these airplanes are in top state and no work in them is needed?

The source for the fake news that there is a technical problem with the aircraft, is that article in L'Echo. Their AB-source didn't want to say that only the Belgian CAA is delaying their startup because such statement would lead to even more delay. So the AB-source said to the journalist that there was also a problem with Airbus, hoping that the journalist would not write that only the CAA is to blame. Freddy Van Gaever / VG Airlines did so when his AOC was delayed, and his comments on tv caused even more CAA delay.

So L'Echo launched this fake news: "...Il y a d’une part la livraison des avions qui a pris du retard, de même que les procédures d’obtention du droit de trafic (le fameux AOC), qu’Air Belgium n’a toujours pas encore... Les discussions avec Airbus se sont favorablement clôturées et le premier appareil, un A340-300, devrait être livré à Air Belgium à la mi-novembre..."

Airbus has moved the AB-aircraft from Helsinki to Tarbes and Teruel. Why would Airbus do that, when there is a technical problem? (I don't call the paintwork a technical problem.) Toulouse is then the place to be.

[KriVa]

"Technical problem" might cover a wide range of issues, though.
It could also mean that the aircraft are coming quite close to a heavy check, and that parts needed for those heavy checks are not available yet. In this case, it wouldn't be a problem to get the aircraft to fly around from Finland to Spain, but the time remaining on the frames might not be enough to actually get some useful commercial life out of them.
I have absolutely NO information about the proceedings within Air Belgium, so this is just a train of thought.
In any case, without proper source, just guesstimating based on history is not going to get us much further. The "problem with Airbus" can neither be denied, nor confirmed, in my eyes. We'll see mid November when the first aircraft should be delivered...

[Passenger]

"Technical problem" might cover a wide range of issues, though.
It could also mean that the aircraft are coming quite close to a heavy check, and that parts needed for those heavy checks are not available yet. In this case, it wouldn't be a problem to get the aircraft to fly around from Finland to Spain, but the time remaining on the frames might not be enough to actually get some useful commercial life out of them.
I have absolutely NO information about the proceedings within Air Belgium, so this is just a train of thought.
In any case, without proper source, just guesstimating based on history is not going to get us much further. The "problem with Airbus" can neither be denied, nor confirmed, in my eyes. We'll see mid November when the first aircraft should be delivered...

French is not my mother language, but I think I understand it well enough to know that there was no mention at all about a technical issue in that article. Stored since July 2016 for Air Belgium (cfr. Airfleets.net) and Airbus not able to get them airworthy before November 2017???

If there was any problem at all with Airbus, "les discussions avec Airbus" seems to point more to a financial one:
"...Il y a d’une part la livraison des avions qui a pris du retard..."
"... Les discussions avec Airbus se sont favorablement clôturées..."

[SLM]

Any updates?