Jet Airways out of Brussels

[lumumba]

Certainly there ties with Skyteam is a reason.

[White Light]

It must be said they still sound cautiously openminded to alternatives at present, but that's most likely because of the law Renault which forces them to officially reconsider during 3 months: I think they have definitely made up their mind and are simply going to close BRU.

I fully agree. Very good analysis of the situation.

Whatever the outcome of the consultative process, Jet Airways will continue to serve the Belgian market and offer connectivity to its guests through a combination of its own operations [/u][/b]along with its extensive interline partner network.

This extract from the Holding Statement posted by Boeing767copilot, however indicates they will maintain some operations to BRU, like for instance ? :

Does this sound like bye bye Toronto and Newark and a codeshare with DL between Brussels and New York JFK while maintaining Mumbai and / or New Delhi?

And DL flying to BRU with a large aircraft ?

In De Tijd, they mention BRU is saddened but isn't really surprised by the announcement either. Also they explicitly state they are currently working with Brussels Airlines and its STAR alliance partners to create alternatives for the routes lost.

One of the problems already hinted at in other threads or posts is that SN apparently doesn't have the money to "acquire" additional long-haul aircraft and its shareholders are not prepared to put the necessary money on the table.

Otherwise, the first thing that comes to mind (to me) is to negotiate with AC that AC will operate Toronto nonstop and SN will take over Montreal as from the next summer timetable.

The second thing that comes to mind is the long discussed evening flight to New York (by SN).

If SN could at least achieve this, it would not be bad at all in the current situation.

[Jetter]

And DL flying to BRU with a large aircraft ?

Why would they do that out of BRU when they serve 9 USA destinations out of AMS, if JET wants to work with Delta that makes a move to AMS obvious.

[Atlantis]

This is all very confusing. So what exactly were no-nonsense and Atlantis on about just yesterday, both CONFIRMING Jet was not leaving???

Indeed, confirmation was in that Jet Airways was going to stay at the airport with their 4 daily flights and even confirmed to offer seats on all those destinations till after Winter 2016-2017.
Other confirmation was that they don't have any slots at AMS because it's completely full there and for Jet Airways it's impossible to set up a hub like they do there at BRU.
And the founder of Jet Airways is very pleased with Brussels Airport and with the very good figures, loaf factor and yield they have on BRU.

So what was today in the press is totally unexpected as the confirmation that they were going to stay dates from the 4th of November, so two days ago.

[Jetter]

This is all very confusing. So what exactly were no-nonsense and Atlantis on about just yesterday, both CONFIRMING Jet was not leaving???

Indeed, confirmation was in that Jet Airways was going to stay at the airport with their 4 daily flights and even confirmed to offer seats on all those destinations till after Winter 2016-2017.
Other confirmation was that they don't have any slots at AMS because it's completely full there and for Jet Airways it's impossible to set up a hub like they do there at BRU.
And the founder of Jet Airways is very pleased with Brussels Airport and with the very good figures, loaf factor and yield they have on BRU.

So what was today in the press is totally unexpected as the confirmation that they were going to stay dates from the 4th of November, so two days ago.

Confirmation by whom? Where is it written?

Maybe it wasn't expected by you, but it was expected by many others, just check thuis thread to confirm.

[LJ]

Source is Jet Airways.
No official public statement is to be found as there is nothing to communicate about.
Unfortunately, Jet Airways has been subject to many rumours and assumptions.
Maybe it is time to put a halt to it?!
It is starting to get a bit annoying and has all the characteristics of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yet it's 9W which always feeds these rumours as they request (and receive) slots at AMS for such a move. They did it 1,5 year ago and doing it again now. FYI they have received slots for 3 daily flights at AMS (BOM, DEL and YYZ) as of January 2016. Thus if 9W would stop requesting these slots at AMS we would stop these rumours.

Again, seeing is believing and it looks like 9W is using these AMS slots more as a bargaining chip than actual leaving BRU. The most apparant reason for this is that they started with announcing a daily BOM-AMS (and where 9W explicitly mentions that nothing more was going on. Yet suprisingly their 3 daily slots popped up in the slot allocation list (needless to say they were approved). However, as we learned with QR, between the first allocation of slots and actual starting flying to AMS, can be many months (it took QR 3 to 4 slot allocations before they finally started flying to AMS).

Other confirmation was that they don't have any slots at AMS because it's completely full there and for Jet Airways it's impossible to set up a hub like they do there at BRU.

As stated above this is incorrect. They have slots at AMS arriving just after 08:30 and leaving around 10:00 for all three daily flights (flight nubers would be 9W231/2/3/4).

[Passenger]

A while ago I wrote already that Jet Airways will not leave the BRU tarmac that soon and today it is confirmed. There are many reasons why the top of Jet Airways decided to stay at Brussels Airport. Jet Airways even confirmed that they will offer their seats till after Winter season 2016-2017!!!! Jet Airways will stay at Brussels Airport with their 4 daily flights.

It's a shame such nonsense is posted on this otherwise informative forum. Opinions and ideas are much appreciated, but I'd consider being a bit more careful before making outright wrong claims based on undisclosed sources.

Atlantis is right. There are enough reasons to believe that Jet Airways will not leave Brussels. Maybe they will open one route out of AMS, but not four.

Anyway, Jetter, the above post is your first post here. Would be great if we can continue to discuss this Jet Airways story with facts, statements and personal opinions, and not with remarks like "it's a shame such nonsense is posted". Thank you.

[Jetter]

Atlantis is right. There are enough reasons to believe that Jet Airways will not leave Brussels. Maybe they will open one route out of AMS, but not four.

Anyway, Jetter, the above post is your first post here. Would be great if we can continue to discuss this Jet Airways story with facts, statements and personal opinions, and not with remarks like "it's a shame such nonsense is posted". Thank you.

Why would Jet inform their personnel if they don't really expect to leave? There have been rumors for a long time, but they haven't taken such steps before afaik.

I agree it should be about facts, statements and opinions. My point was just that Atalantis shouldn't confuse opinions with facts and present them as such. That's why I later asked about his sources for 9W BRU flights in 2017 and no new 9W slots in AMS (which contradicts other LJ's info). You're right I should have done that straight away instead of assuming it was just his opinion.

[teach]

A while ago I wrote already that Jet Airways will not leave the BRU tarmac that soon and today it is confirmed.

There are many reasons why the top of Jet Airways decided to stay at Brussels Airport. Jet Airways even confirmed that they will offer their seats till after Winter season 2016-2017!!!!

Jet Airways will stay at Brussels Airport with their 4 daily flights.

It's a shame such nonsense is posted on this otherwise informative forum. Opinions and ideas are much appreciated, but I'd consider being a bit more careful before making outright wrong claims based on undisclosed sources.

Atlantis has shown in the past on multiple occasions that he is 'in the know' on matters concerning BRU (I assume that's part of his job). A VERY valuable and knowledgeable member for the forums. If you're new here as you are, it's a terribly bad idea for your first post here to one in which you're slamming one of the most respected members. In fatc, it's an awful idea for your first post to be one slamming anyone, it sets a very bad tone, and makes an awful first impression.

If Atlantis says Jet confirmed just two days ago that they'd be stayin in BRU, that means that Jet DID confirm this two days ago. Apparently they've changed their minds since.

[Jetter]

If Atlantis says Jet confirmed just two days ago that they'd be stayin in BRU, that means that Jet DID confirm this two days ago. Apparently they've changed their minds since.

Atlantis didn't say what his source was. And as I'm new on this forum I don't know who is who. But I do know that if 2 days ago 9W didn't have AMS slots and planned to stay in BRU then it's unthinkable that they inform personnel otherwise 2 days later. You don't inform personnel overnight after changing your mind about something that's months ahead. So you're wrong when you say the unnamed sources must have been right and that 9W have changed their mind since.

Also, I can infer LJ can't be trusted as he disputes Atlantis' info regarding the slots?

[Passenger]

There are plenty of reasons why one can assume that Jet Airways will not take up the slots they’ve asked and, apparently, recieved in AMS. Actually, just a few months ago, another carrier did the same major announcement “Amsterdam, here we come!”. But finally, they’ve cancelled all their slots except for one destination (Dublin).

So why this announcement to the staff?

Maybe Jet Airways wants to put pressure on Brussels Airport because Amsterdam Airport last week announced they were going to lower their airport fees & charges with 11,6% as from next year?

Maybe Jet Airways wants to put pressure on Brussels Airlines to increase SN's allotments on codesharing flights? Or maybe Jet Airways wants to get better conditions on SN add-ons?

Maybe Jet Airways will indeed move the Delhi flight from BRU to AMS? So they will need less staff at BRU, and they want to play it safe with Belgian labour legislation?

[Jetter]

It seems pretty far fetched to me to misinform personnel to put pressure on a 3rd party, but I do hope you're right.

[convair]

Anyway, there are not necessarily inconsistencies in 9W's behaviour/statements: if they are leaving BRU altogether, they couldn't ackowledge that before officially talking to their personnel, so they acted prudently when they denied leaving BRU 2 days ago; for the same reason, they had to keep everyone in the blue regarding the future use of the slots they had asked for and obtained in AMS.

I might certainly be wrong but it looks to me their mind is made up and their decision taken.

[LJ]

There are plenty of reasons why one can assume that Jet Airways will not take up the slots they’ve asked and, apparently, recieved in AMS. Actually, just a few months ago, another carrier did the same major announcement “Amsterdam, here we come!”. But finally, they’ve cancelled all their slots except for one destination (Dublin).

Correct, the most obvious is the fact that we're currently in November and not even their initial announced plan (BOM-AMS) is not in the GDS.

9W falls in the same category as QR in this respect, I'll believe they'll be flying to AMS when a 9W actually lands at AMS (and not for a diversion from BRU). Hence why I didn't post this when they received their slots mid-September (though it surprised me that this wasn't picked up here as it was mentioned in the usual forums).

It seems pretty far fetched to me to misinform personnel to put pressure on a 3rd party, but I do hope you're right.

That depends on what 9W actually communicated to its staff. Remember, news articles tend to overreact and statements from a union don't have to reflect the context nor exact contents of the information 9W supplied to its staff. Moreover, according to news articles it's not about moving to AMS, but having a hub in Europe or not. Using slots at other airports as a bargaining chip isn't so strange, but this seems unrelated to the review (as the slots were received mid-September and the review has been reported now).

[LJ]

wrong edit my apologies

[DannyVDB]

See official statement of BRU on the matter ...

http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/mediaroom/news/65599/

Now it becomes also clear why there is some delays / waiting in the communication of Brussels Airlines.

I guess the Trans-Atlantic JV (Star Alliance) must have busy times in evaluating/re-evaluating on what to do and when
I am also sure that LH is looking into this and how they can recover as much pax as possible between Belgium and India ...

Danny

[Jetter]

That depends on what 9W actually communicated to its staff. Remember, news articles tend to overreact and statements from a union don't have to reflect the context nor exact contents of the information 9W supplied to its staff. Moreover, according to news articles it's not about moving to AMS, but having a hub in Europe or not.

There's a press release by 9W itself that echoes what is supposedly said to staff and it does imply moving (albeit not to AMS specifically):

"Door significante veranderingen in het competitief scenario in Brussel en Europa, is de hub economisch onrendabel en onhoudbaar geworden. Jet Airways zal hierdoor haar activa en diensten elders moeten inzetten.”

[teach]

If Atlantis says Jet confirmed just two days ago that they'd be stayin in BRU, that means that Jet DID confirm this two days ago. Apparently they've changed their minds since.

Atlantis didn't say what his source was. And as I'm new on this forum I don't know who is who. But I do know that if 2 days ago 9W didn't have AMS slots and planned to stay in BRU then it's unthinkable that they inform personnel otherwise 2 days later. You don't inform personnel overnight after changing your mind about something that's months ahead. So you're wrong when you say the unnamed sources must have been right and that 9W have changed their mind since.

If you had bothered to read a bit through Atlantis' posting history here, it's quite obvious he works at BRU, in a position where he is privy to certain information. He has a very long track record here of not posting nonsense or rumors, but facts. The fact that on top of that, on the very same day another new member posted the exact same thing here (official confirmation from Jet that they'd stay) means that it's more than just a bit likely that there was indeed an official communication from Jet to BRU that they'd stay.

And 'I don't know who is who' is not an excuse. When you're new somewhere, you look around first, and hold off on attacking other members until you DO find out who's who. You don't charge in like a bull in a china shop the way you did.

[Jetter]

If you had bothered to read a bit through Atlantis' posting history here,

As new member it's impossible to view user posts, so your suggestion was impossible (I tried).

The fact that on top of that, on the very same day another new member posted the exact same thing here (official confirmation from Jet that they'd stay) means that it's more than just a bit likely that there was indeed an official communication from Jet to BRU that they'd stay.

I've asked this before but it isn't answered yet: what was said confirmation and by whom was it made. This surely could be revealed if it's 'official'. If it was made to BRU and credible, how come that BRU now states it isn't surprised about 9W possibly leaving???

The lack of any concrete information about it and the fact that it's refuted by respectable news outlets in just days made me doubt posters claiming such confirmations.

[Passenger]

I've asked this before but it isn't answered yet: what was said confirmation and by whom was it made. This surely could be revealed if it's 'official'. If it was made to BRU and credible, how come that BRU now states it isn't surprised about 9W possibly leaving??? The lack of any concrete information about it and the fact that it's refuted by respectable news outlets in just days made me doubt posters claiming such confirmations.

Sure. Of course. There is no firm proof that Jet Airways will stay. But first, this isn’t a court room where statements are only accepted when accompagnied by a firm proof on paper, to be judged as true by a judge. And second, this also works in both ways, thus the move to AMS. I don’t regard the “Holding Statement”, reported here yesterday by lz-member Boeing767copilot, as a firm confirmation that they will move from BRU to AMS:

…Jet Airways has today started a consultative process with its employees' representative in Brussels to determine future steps regarding its operations at Brussels Airport and informed,its employees accordingly.

…Jet Airways may therefore have to evaluate redeploying its assets and services.

… No final decision has been taken with regard to Jet Airways' operations to and from Brussels.

Maybe that Holding Statement, and the announcement to the employees, were more a statement and an announcement to the airport's operator? “BRU, give us better conditions or we will ll move”. From that same Holding Statement:

...While from an operational standpoint, the gateway was a success, its financial viability has become a challenge primarily due to external factors such as a less favourable global economic climate, especially in Europe, realignment of partnership and alliance structures and fierce price competition.

… However, due to significant changes in the competitive scenario in Brussels and Europe, the gateway has become economically unviable and unsustainable. Jet Airways may therefore have to evaluate redeploying its assets and services.

… The consultative process is in line with Jet Airways’ approach of engaging with its employees in a transparent manner regarding key business decisions and is also fully in compliance with Belgian laws.

...No final decision has been taken with regard to Jet Airways' operations to and from Brussels.

… Whatever the outcome of the consultative process…