Ryan air Stress

[tolipanebas]

but surely opening the doors isn't a complicated and costly solution to come up with , nor does it involve great captaincy to order it: in fact it is plain common sense to do so and so is the decision to deboard everybody, even if the airport at EIN is just a small one: it's becoming a general health and safety issue even, so I really wonder what they were waiting for: the first cardiac arrest?

Which they eventually did after only 45 min which is in fact not very long. You are just plain ignorant and the fact that you do nothing else then bashing colleagues of you who are no more but also NO LESS then what you are is just disgusting. It doesn't matter which colours are on the side of an airplane, at the end of the day we are all in the same boat and we should stick up for each other

OMG, 45 minutes is an awfully long time to be sitting inside a fully closed aircraft all without any use of air conditioning while it's 35 degrees outside, my friend!

Maybe you as a crew can get used to it when you have to do it by company policy on a daily basis or something, but young children, elderly people or people with cardiac problems may very well have passed out by then as the temperature and humidity inside must have been those of a sauna almost!

Extreme conditions like those call for immediate action from the captain in order avoid uncomfortable situations from turning into uncontrolled emergencies, without need to first consider the most cost-effective option or ask for instructions from your OCC.

Let me get this absolutely straight: you don't ask your operations what your decision must be as a captain in these cases, you simply advice them about yours: at least that's how we do it at Brussels Airlines, but clearly at Ryanair, the captain of all flights is called MOL and he sure as hell isn't a collleague of mine!

[sean1982]

Its not really company policy to sit 45 min daily in an airplane as believe it or not, most of our flight are actually on time.
You are totally clueless about the professionals that work for us. Off course they cannot all be gods gift to aviation like you claim to be. 99% of our captains would have probably taken a different decision.

This is what an FR captain had to say about this

Few summers ago, whilst working for RYR, I had a similar situation. On stand ready for boarding but no ground conditioned air available and a limitation on APU usage imposed by airport regulations (no longer than -5min prior to off block). OAT around 35 degrees Celsius. Refused to start boarding process until either ground conditioned air available or authorisation to use APU outside the airport regulations received. Kept pax in a nicely airconditioned terminal until things were sorted out, causing a significant delay.

At the end of the duty wrote a small report explaining circumstances and decisions made. Was backed up by the management. No stress and no management pressure. It is a captain's call, even in RYR.

And let me get this straight: don't call me "my friend" cause you're not

[tolipanebas]

And let me get this straight: don't call me "my friend" cause you're not

Well, don't ask to be 'on my boat' then, all right?

[sean1982]

your boat? you are alone in the ocean with an attitude like that, on my boat professional pilots have a whole different way of acting

[ezis]

your boat? you are alone in the ocean with an attitude like that, on my boat professional pilots have a whole different way of acting

Actually you both are rather behaving like little frustrated kids.

Just both please come with arguments and try to be polite

Thank you.

[sean1982]

I'm sorry, I'm not the one who has no arguments. I think my arguments are perfectly clear

[shockcooling]

I actually liked that boat comment

herse some more detailed info from another forum;
Plane arrived late from PMI, approx. 2hrs. Onblock 12:28 with a CTOT 12:35. At 12:49 they're informed about a new CTOT 12:52. All pax on board 12:50, but due to APU inop and use of airstart they missed their slot. New CTOT 13:39. Around 13:20 PAX started complaining, after swapped their plane for the NYO plane and same crew + Pax continued.

[convair]

@Sean1982

1.You say this incident is blown out of proportion; I don't think so but people like you trying to justify the unjustifyable contribute to this becoming an endless topic.

2. You criticize Tolipanebas because he is not supporting a colleague. So, for you, a pilot can do anything and he will always be right and receive your blessing.

3. You, yourself, say that "probably 99% of the Ryanair pilots would have reacted in a different way". So finally that one in EIN did not act the normal way then !

And, on top of that, you proudly present youself as a Ryanair PU !

Well, I hope never to fly on a plane on which you "execute" your duty !

[sean1982]

If you look at the the information presented in the comment above by shockcooling, they would have had to wait about 9 minutes more before engine could be started and they would have been on their their way airconditioned and all. instead they chose too stage a mutiny and get themselves another 2 hour delay.

I also do not except everything a pilot does, cause i you have read my comment to B.Inventive I said that I would have voiced my opinion probably a bit stronger.

I also did not say the captain in EIN was right or wrong, I just pointed out other people might have done another thing, however with the new info from shockcooling it looks like the crew did the best they could given the situation.

If the topic if endless to you, you could have spared yourself 1 useless post.

I have no problem presenting myself as an FR PU, is that something to be ashamed about? I have been doing my job professionally with FR for about 10 years now. I have flown many luchtzak members who have expressed their gratitude and I always try to convince my crew to be friendly, professional and safe when dealing with passengers. In fact throughout this summer me and my crew have regularly received comments from pax about our friendliness and professionalism. You sir are just annoyed that I am defending Ryanair with proper arguments and you for whatever reason clearly have something against this company.

Having said that, if you ever step onboard an airplane where I am PU, you are always welcome to offload yourself, it would probably be the best for both of us

[tolipanebas]

I'm sorry, I'm not the one who has no arguments. I think my arguments are perfectly clear

Your main argument is basically to aks everybody shut up, in my case by appealing to some kind of sense of collegiality I am supposed to feel here and to offend me for not wanting to do that...

Having said that, if you ever step onboard an airplane where I am PU, you are always welcome to offload yourself, it would probably be the best for both of us

Very professional attitude towards paying customers... good interpersonal skills skills too, BTW.

[sean1982]

I'm not asking everybody to shut up, I'm just trying to explain why the crew did what they did. I knew I shouldn't have asked for collegialty from you as you feel far above "lo-co" crew

Well, I hope never to fly on a plane on which you "execute" your duty !

euhm excuse me, I'm not going to let myself being bullied by convair on an open forum. This has nothing to do with my attitude against customers AT ALL. By you neither btw If you wanna talk interpersonal skills, I suggest you start looking at yourself first

[convair]

I've never worked for any airline and I said several times on this forum that FR is playing a useful role in aviation.

I would have had the same criticsm for the EIN incident, whichever airline was involved.

However, I must admit that MOL's repeatedly stressing profitability (pay-toilets, standing-up pax, extra fees whenever possible...) and the recent 3 incidents in Valencia are giving me doubts about the free decision-making ability of FR's employees, and the unconditional support by some of its people on this forum does nothing to re-assure me.

I do however feel some sympathy for the FR captains who must take decisions while having, in their mind, the image of MOL barking at them.

[sean1982]

Thank you convair for a civilised answer. I can assure you that most of FR captains don't really give a cr*p about MOL's barking at all. As far as most crew are concerned, he can bark whatever he wants, they will take the safe decision.

[tolipanebas]

I knew I shouldn't have asked for collegialty from you as you feel far above "lo-co" crew

May I point out it is YOU who took offense in being called 'a friend'?

Indeed, as a fellow forum member I gave you this interpersonal appreciation, yet you felt the need to publicly decline the use of this because I happen to fly for another airline you loathe: fine, but then please also cut all the crap about collegiality too then: you can't have one without the other...

[sean1982]

I loathe?? I don't loathe any airline. Your use of the word "friend" was not in a friendly manner, it was used in a demeaning manner. Further more as you seem to think all the crew in FR are just MOL little minions which couldn't be any more further from the truth! I do strongly believe that all airline crew are , as I said, in the same boat. I don't care if somebody flies for a lo-co, national or charter airline. I have good friends who work for JAF, FQ, E6 etc etc.

I don't know if you realise this tolipanebas but you do come across when talking about lo-co's as them being down ther and you being up there. Now you might think that about a company culture, but i do think it's very wrong to think exactly the same about the people working for them. And seriously I do not loath your employer. On the contrary, I am proud as a belgian on a company like Bru.Air and I sincerely hope they will thrive in the near future, with the JFK service seeming to be a good step in the right direction.

I hope I have said the record straight now by pointing out my point of view

[BrusselsAirlines]

Luchtzak will never change - kind if the online version of a cheap soap ())

[Squelsh]

Good to see our best-paid purser has some time to spare in between fuel-forms to come and stirr childish posts in here. It's getting predictable Life is beautiful.
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If it's warm in the cabin, it's equally warm in the flightdeck. Do you think they enjoy sitting in the blistering heat? Maybe he had good reason to keep pax onboard, but if these kind of "hero" passengers start producing trouble, the situation might become a lot more difficult. Then you are not only dealing with a tech problem (APU INOP), an ATC problem but also a disruptive pax problem.

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So if I read you correctly, the customer is not allowed to complain more severely if all of his efforts are ignored and left unanswered? First a few indeed need to go down? If ANIMALS were found being transported under this kind of conditions the transporter/forwarder would get official complaints and get immediate stop/offload right there and then. So the smartass "hero" must undergo the whole thing without standing up for his fellow-passengers who are by then maybe already too weak to speak out their mind (or too small in age)? Where do you live or how old are you? Schindler would have opened the firehose on this wagon.
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On top of that I'm sick of people thinking it is ok just to film cabin crew when they are under stress and then totally violate their privacy by throwing it on youtube. I really hope this pax is taken to court by Ryanair just for that reason alone!!!

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Love how you give the whole story a twist. In your eyes, the passenger has no right whatsoever if I scan your post. But happy pictures/vids are allowed, right? Love the propaganda talk.
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In fact the only thing I read was the CREW calling the police to deal with abusive passengers cause they felt threatened. WHich apparently is acceptable this day and age.

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About as acceptable as the whole furnace situation, but don't even dare to complain or stirr it up before it really gets out of hand and bodies start hitting the floor. They will just call the cops on you, because you, the passenger, the paying customer, is the problem. I think the police on site was not sharing your idea and ONE look in the cabin was enough to establish where the root of the problem originated. V bad problem-solving skills.
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(..) Which they eventually did after only 45 min which is in fact not very long. You are just plain ignorant and the fact that you do nothing else then bashing colleagues of you who are no more but also NO LESS then what you are is just disgusting.

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Off-topic, but this was where it started going downhill

[sean1982]

Squelsh your opinion does not matter to me at all

Happy pictures are also not allowed btw, no propaganda, just privacy
Everybody has the right to complain, not to take charge

Enjoy your day

[airazurxtror]

A lot of contributors on this site earn their bread by working for Brussels Airlines and they do all they can to keep their job. It's normal, one can understand that.
Ryanair represents a most dangerous competitor for Brussels Airlines, and these contributors do their little bit to try and "get rid of FR", as their boss once said. It's only human, even if some of their arguments border on the dishonesty - but one can understand, they are getting desperate ...
On the other hand, Ryanair can rely on some twenty million (or more) happy customers who have booked more than 77 million seats in the past twelve months.
And some of these customers voice their opinion here, as is their right, until further notice - sorry if that does not agree with the Brussels Airlines lobby.

[Tomskii]

The thing I always find rather intriguing is the fact that when it happens on FR everybody bashes on the company because it's FR anyways so were allowed to do so, on top of that in many cases people blow everything out of proportion. (PS: I'm guilty as well sometimes)

Then when this happens to another company, people do not say: Oh it's UA/SN/U2/LH/KL/AF/SK/.... anyways. The reason why is that people are prejudged, on top of that I'm sure some are bashing on FR whilst they have never flown them before so they only bash because they heard FR is 'bad'.

Think about those 2 points before starting to say it's FR again when some companies have done the same without anyone making a big deal out of it.