Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Flanker2
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Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

If SN is in negative equity, a loan won't change that.
The good thing is that LH is injecting equity to the tunes of 170 Millions, to bring the company back into solvency.

As for the loan, the government has SN's shares as collateral, meaning that they either repay it or the government becomes owner of SN.

The question now is not whether LH will pay the loan back in 6 years, but how long SN will last with this lifeline.
460 Millions is a lot of money, but it won't last forever.

Another question is how long LH will last with their 9 billions. I don't think that they'll last much longer than the Spring of 2021.
If the Parent Company goes under, all subsidiaries go under. We've seen that recently with Thomas Cook.

LH really showed some commitment here, with the equity infusion and by putting the company's ownership as collateral for the loan.
I also doubt that LH will be able to turn SN around before significant profits are made, but they will have to try harder this time, what choice do they have?

As a fervent critic and taxpayer, I can find peace with this deal.


I hope that they stop talking about A321XLR's for North America.
Those aircraft cost as much in capital costs as used A330's for only half the capacity.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 01:45 Another question is how long LH will last with their 9 billions. I don't think that they'll last much longer than the Spring of 2021.
Another one of those Nostradamus predictions that will go lost in the www basements. Though predicting the Lufthansa bankruptcy surpasses your prediction, in 2014, that Brussels Airlines would cause an Ebola pandemy because they kept flying to Africa (on request of the medics) when the continent was hit.

Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 01:45 If the Parent Company goes under, all subsidiaries go under. We've seen that recently with Thomas Cook.
Wrong. Subsidiaries can survive when their parent company goes under. It depends on the commitments (example: bonds, bank guarantees) and the rights that the parent company has (example: Apple Store).

Thomas Cook Belgium went bankrupt because the Belgian nv/sa had wired their cash surplus (mainly clients' deposits) to the groups' cash pool in the UK. The Belgian curator/curateur is investigating a € 5M cash transfer just two weeks before THC UK went bankrupt.

Flanker2
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Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

Passenger wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 16:42
Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 01:45 Another question is how long LH will last with their 9 billions. I don't think that they'll last much longer than the Spring of 2021.
Another one of those Nostradamus predictions that will go lost in the www basements. Though predicting the Lufthansa bankruptcy surpasses your prediction, in 2014, that Brussels Airlines would cause an Ebola pandemy because they kept flying to Africa (on request of the medics) when the continent was hit.

Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 01:45 If the Parent Company goes under, all subsidiaries go under. We've seen that recently with Thomas Cook.
Wrong. Subsidiaries can survive when their parent company goes under. It depends on the commitments (example: bonds, bank guarantees) and the rights that the parent company has (example: Apple Store).

Thomas Cook Belgium went bankrupt because the Belgian nv/sa had wired their cash surplus (mainly clients' deposits) to the groups' cash pool in the UK. The Belgian curator/curateur is investigating a € 5M cash transfer just two weeks before THC UK went bankrupt.

SN and Gustin put Belgium at risk during the Ebola crisis and 6 years later SN needs to be rescued to avoid bankruptcy anyway, so that risk was in the end unnecessary and wouldn't have changed a thing in SN's trajectory. So my prediction was right, it was unnecessary risk and it should have been avoided.
The Belgian government took the same risk again with Covid and this time we are paying a high price.
I'm not sure there s anything for you to brag about here.

When the parent company goes under, meaning that they fail financially, by definition all subsidiaries do as well, because a parent company is the sum of all subsidiaries and eventual core activity.
In bankruptcy some subsidiaries or even the parent company can then be sold in bulk or as separate entities and keep living on under new ownership, but that doesn't change the fact that they have to go through a bankruptcy process.

Mark March 1st 2021 on your calendar. If LH isn't begging for more money by then, I'll eat my hat.

Matt
Posts: 137
Joined: 14 Nov 2018, 09:20

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Matt »

Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 19:49
Mark March 1st 2021 on your calendar. If LH isn't begging for more money by then, I'll eat my hat.
For the love of God, someone, SCREENCAP THIS

teddybAIR
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by teddybAIR »

Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 19:49 When the parent company goes under, meaning that they fail financially, by definition all subsidiaries do as well, because a parent company is the sum of all subsidiaries and eventual core activity.
If 'goes under' means 'go into bankrupcy' then this statement is factually wrong. If a subsidiary is a seperate legal entity, then bankrupcy of a parent company has no automatic repercutions on the financial viability of the subsidiary. Examples we all know well are Sabena/DAT/Sobelair/Sabena Technics/etc., Swissair/Crossair. Sometimes it is even one of the contributing factors why the construction of a seperate legal entity is chosen in the set-up of the activities: to build financial circuit breakers that avoid insolvency/bankrupcy to affect the entire group.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

As of 3 August, THE LOFT and Lexus lounges will open again, with limited opening hours: Monday - Friday from 06h30 to 18h30. They've implemented a series of measures, including 1.5m distance between seating and an adapted food and beverage service.
André
ex Sabena #26567

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 466
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Belgium blocks Kigali bound passengers from boarding SN Brussels flight

Kigali bound passengers on SN Brussels were on Tuesday, August 4 barred from boarding their flight to Kigali by Belgian authorities.

The decision was explained to the passengers as part of the implementation of travel restrictions to reduce incoming flow at external borders of the European Union as well as discouraging outbound travel of EU citizens and residents to reduce vulnerability against Covid-19.

https://www.newtimes.co.rw/news/belgium ... els-flight

It seems that next flights to Kigali are already canceled

Stella_Caeli
Posts: 95
Joined: 07 Apr 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Stella_Caeli »

rwandan-flyer wrote: 04 Aug 2020, 20:12 The decision was explained to the passengers as part of the implementation of travel restrictions to reduce incoming flow at external borders of the European Union as well as discouraging outbound travel of EU citizens and residents to reduce vulnerability against Covid-19.
Fake news. They were offloaded because as of August 1, RW requires that "passengers and airline crew have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result issued at most 72 hours before arrival" (source).

The pax in question didn't have a medical certificate, nor did they have a Rwandan passport which would let them enter without the certificate. It has nothing to do with the EU border, they are not involved in this at all. The "explanation" mentioned above makes no sense, the medical certificate has clearly been explained to the affected pax as the reason.

Many pax were caught by surprise by this new rule. Those on transit were all returned to their origins as they couldn't enter Schengen, and couldn't get a test here. Not sure why they were allowed to fly to Belgium in the first place without their documents for their connecting flight in order, presuming it was on the same ticket.

Stella_Caeli
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Stella_Caeli »

Happy that the European "fancy" branded fares are going away and will be replaced with the more serious branded fare structure of the LH Group, as it was always difficult to match booking class with the applicable fancy branded fare.

I still believe there an Economy Flex Y fare should be offered that includes refunds with no penalties.

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 466
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Stella_Caeli wrote: 05 Aug 2020, 22:30
rwandan-flyer wrote: 04 Aug 2020, 20:12 The decision was explained to the passengers as part of the implementation of travel restrictions to reduce incoming flow at external borders of the European Union as well as discouraging outbound travel of EU citizens and residents to reduce vulnerability against Covid-19.
Fake news. They were offloaded because as of August 1, RW requires that "passengers and airline crew have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result issued at most 72 hours before arrival" (source).

The pax in question didn't have a medical certificate, nor did they have a Rwandan passport which would let them enter without the certificate. It has nothing to do with the EU border, they are not involved in this at all. The "explanation" mentioned above makes no sense, the medical certificate has clearly been explained to the affected pax as the reason.

Many pax were caught by surprise by this new rule. Those on transit were all returned to their origins as they couldn't enter Schengen, and couldn't get a test here. Not sure why they were allowed to fly to Belgium in the first place without their documents for their connecting flight in order, presuming it was on the same ticket.
Rwandese were allowed to fly to Kigali. It's means that all UE passeport holdesr on this flight didn't make the PCR test 72hrs before ? The PCR test was announced,weeks ago, by GoR, on the biggest Rwandans Medias, Travel website, CNN, social networks,...

There are differents versions ( i talk about Rwanda, not Uganda).

4 août
Over 20 Ugandans from different European cities are stranded in Brussels after being denied to board a Brussels Airlines flight a few hours ago.Apparently the flight didn't get permission to bring passengers to Entebbe yet it's coming to pick some.
Kanyomozi District
@PatriqKanyomozi
All of them had gone through all the necessary health checks but the Airline told them that someone in authority has denied them permission to bring them.They were all going to quarantine at their cost. The Rwandese were allowed to board to Kigali https://twitter.com/PatriqKanyomozi/sta ... 6181827584

I think It's not about the medical certificate, but Belgium has decided to put somes rules, as UE Embassy in Kigali has said. BE doesn't allow people coming back, from the 15 countries, on UE green list https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/detai ... d=10536934

I understand for people living in Belgium who want to go to Rwanda, but the guy who has work permit in Rwanda (and thus lives in Rwanda), can't even go to Rwanda. But i m probably wrong

Anyway, SN flights to Kigali are canceled till mid August 2020 (for the moment...)

Image

Poiu
Posts: 847
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Matt wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 08:09
Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 19:49
Mark March 1st 2021 on your calendar. If LH isn't begging for more money by then, I'll eat my hat.
For the love of God, someone, SCREENCAP THIS
Seen today’s results chances of Flanker eating their hat are pretty slim.

Matt
Posts: 137
Joined: 14 Nov 2018, 09:20

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Matt »

Poiu wrote: 06 Aug 2020, 16:04
Matt wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 08:09
Flanker2 wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 19:49
Mark March 1st 2021 on your calendar. If LH isn't begging for more money by then, I'll eat my hat.
For the love of God, someone, SCREENCAP THIS
Seen today’s results chances of Flanker eating their hat are pretty slim.
How unfortunate.

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 466
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

rwandan-flyer wrote: 04 Aug 2020, 20:12 Belgium blocks Kigali bound passengers from boarding SN Brussels flight

Kigali bound passengers on SN Brussels were on Tuesday, August 4 barred from boarding their flight to Kigali by Belgian authorities.

The decision was explained to the passengers as part of the implementation of travel restrictions to reduce incoming flow at external borders of the European Union as well as discouraging outbound travel of EU citizens and residents to reduce vulnerability against Covid-19.

https://www.newtimes.co.rw/news/belgium ... els-flight

It seems that next flights to Kigali are already canceled
Passengers finnaly arrived to Kigali, last saturday, with KLM, which now serves Kigali and will add a 2nd weekly flight, from Sept2020.

They had all papers, they are now in the hotel at Kigali, waiting for the Covid-19 test results.

https://www.newtimes.co.rw/news/strande ... 0ljJO-vpvw

Brussels Airlines still planning to resume flights to Kigali, from 15Aug20

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

rwandan-flyer wrote: 11 Aug 2020, 09:16 Passengers finally arrived to Kigali, last Saturday, with KLM, which now serves Kigali and will add a 2nd weekly flight, from Sept2020.
This is a shame, and a missed opportunity when every cent counts in those difficult times!
André
ex Sabena #26567

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Recent EuroControl data shows that SN is the continental European network airline most affected by Corona.

Image

Poiu
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Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Jetter wrote: 12 Aug 2020, 07:23 Recent EuroControl data shows that SN is the continental European network airline most affected by Corona.
This should not come as a surprise, the unsustainable growth during recent years made SN very vulnerable.

DannyVDB
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Joined: 12 Aug 2003, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by DannyVDB »

And SN did not yet start long haul, so not only no African and US figures but also almost no transfer passengers. Currently SN is not and can't be a 'network' airline ...

D

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 466
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

sn26567 wrote: 11 Aug 2020, 10:22
rwandan-flyer wrote: 11 Aug 2020, 09:16 Passengers finally arrived to Kigali, last Saturday, with KLM, which now serves Kigali and will add a 2nd weekly flight, from Sept2020.
This is a shame, and a missed opportunity when every cent counts in those difficult times!
SN was planning to serve KGL 2 times a week, but according to the website, for August, 1st flight will be operated on 15 Aug, the second one on 19Aug and the last one for August, will be operated on 29Aug. Then, from Sept, during a week, they will operate 2 flights (Wed and Sat), and the next week, one flight (Sat) and then 2 fligths week. It will be the case till 24oct (end of iata summer season).

I did not see for others SN flights to Africa

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 466
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

rwandan-flyer wrote: 13 Aug 2020, 19:07
sn26567 wrote: 11 Aug 2020, 10:22
rwandan-flyer wrote: 11 Aug 2020, 09:16 Passengers finally arrived to Kigali, last Saturday, with KLM, which now serves Kigali and will add a 2nd weekly flight, from Sept2020.
This is a shame, and a missed opportunity when every cent counts in those difficult times!
SN was planning to serve KGL 2 times a week, but according to the website, for August, 1st flight will be operated on 15 Aug, the second one on 19Aug and the last one for August, will be operated on 29Aug. Then, from Sept, during a week, they will operate 2 flights (Wed and Sat), and the next week, one flight (Sat) and then 2 fligths week. It will be the case till 24oct (end of iata summer season).

I did not see for others SN flights to Africa
a day stop in Kigali

The flights resumed. For Kigali, I have just saw that the SN A330 makes a day stop at KGL.It is quite unusual, SN operates flights to Kigali in the evening (arrival around 7:00 p.m. and departure at 8:20 p.m.)

The plane arrives at 12:50 a.m. and departs the same day at 9:10 p.m. The crews sleep logically in Kigali, instead of Kampala. The flight is Brussels-Entebbe-Kigali-Bru

Noted KLM has resumed its flights to Uganda (repatriation flights), but they have suspend tag service via Kigali (it was the case in 2015). Thus, crews sleep in Uganda. The plane also made a day stop at EBB. KLM serves Kigali via DAR.

Image
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Duke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Duke »

rwandan-flyer wrote: 16 Aug 2020, 10:18

The flights resumed. For Kigali, I have just saw that the SN A330 makes a day stop at KGL.It is quite unusual, SN operates flights to Kigali in the evening (arrival around 7:00 p.m. and departure at 8:20 p.m.)

The plane arrives at 12:50 a.m. and departs the same day at 9:10 p.m. The crews sleep logically in Kigali, instead of Kampala. The flight is Brussels-Entebbe-Kigali-Bru

So this means that passengers flying from Entebbe to Brussels (if any these days...) have to wait for about 9 hours in Kigali...
Not an interesting "direct flight" if you ask me...

Regards,

Duke

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