Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Flanker2
Posts: 1724
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

oldblueeyes wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 20:14
Flanker2 wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 18:38
In the end, LH will have to take the deal that is on the table or give up their hopes of state aid and decide by themselves whether they want to recapitalize it or let it go insolvent.
Those are the only 3 options for LH.

I think that LH will recapitalize it in small bits to the bare minimum to keep it afloat and keep dark clouds hanging over SN to try to get free money.
They won't take any deal that is structururally different than what they have negotiatied in other countries. Not for the smallest/end of the tail entity.

With the German deal signed and approved by the shareholders, there is no pressure on the company - this is a fundamentally different situation than it was several weeks ago, as the LH management was rather under pressure to demontrate to the shareholder that it can master the crisis.

And what if we turn the question around - if all other govenrments were able to close deals with Lufthansa and they are somewhow having a similar logic, why is the Belgian not able to do it now, as the benchmarks are already set and thus the intellectual contribution is not anymore needed?Excess of pride and incapacity?
How is the Belgian proposal structurally different from the Austrian one? LH accepted a worse deal from the Austrians than what Belgium is offering.

kazansky137
Posts: 16
Joined: 09 Apr 2018, 10:25

Brussels Airlines Flights to Africa post COVID

Post by kazansky137 »

Hello,

Does anyone have any idea why Brussels Airlines flights to Africa (DLA, NSI, KGL, EBB, ROB, ABJ, DSS...) and flight numbers 1XYZ instead of XYZ were changed?

Previously, XYZ flights used to leave in the late morning and now in the late afternoon as 1XYZ .

Is it time to clean the cabin thoroughly? Thanks already.

/AKN

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 435
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines Flights to Africa post COVID

Post by rwandan-flyer »

I remmember, that they sometimes uses the SN14X flight number to Kigali, when they operate a flight to KGL, a day where they are not supposed to operate, or they cancel the flight in the morning and the flight is operated in the evening, with sometimes a different routing.

Sometimes, it was via Entebbe, iso Bujumbura or Nairobi (when SN served Nairobi), iso Bujumbura

brabel
Posts: 175
Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 10:51

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brabel »

SN cancels her plans for reactivating more planes from August onwards, due to financial problems (e.g. only 2 long haul instead of 5)
They urgently need a deal between Lufthansa and the Belgian government

Flanker2
Posts: 1724
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

brabel wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 13:49
SN cancels her plans for reactivating more planes from August onwards, due to financial problems (e.g. only 2 long haul instead of 5)
They urgently need a deal between Lufthansa and the Belgian government
It's going to rain vouchers.

I ask again, why do they need a deal with the Belgian government if they already got 9 billions from the German government?
There is no rationale there, LH can send them the cash they need.

We have a whole bunch of other companies that need help.

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Conti764
Posts: 1775
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

brabel wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 13:49
SN cancels her plans for reactivating more planes from August onwards, due to financial problems (e.g. only 2 long haul instead of 5)
They urgently need a deal between Lufthansa and the Belgian government
Belgian government :roll:

These idiots will once again abandon thousands of employees.

Maybe it's better not to have an aviation industry if this government screws it up time after time.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

brabel wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 13:49
SN cancels her plans for reactivating more planes from August onwards, due to financial problems (e.g. only 2 long haul instead of 5)
They urgently need a deal between Lufthansa and the Belgian government
The long-haul relaunch is not cancelled but delayed by only one week (from 1 to 8 August). 7,000 passengers affected.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... in-august/
André
ex Sabena #26567

Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1241
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

" ... it will postpone the extension of its flight schedule in August, due to its worsening financial situation."

Why cancel the flights if you have passengers paying for it?

Say 3 (additional) A330s, flying each 5x2 flights in one week = 30 segments.
7000 Pax : 30 = 233 Pax/flight. Not a bad load factor.

Supposing each Pax paid 500 EUR (return) = 3 500 000 EUR.

How does getting an additional 3.5M€ revenue worsen your financial situation ? Doesn't this cover the direct costs?
Of course cashing the money and not flying helps, but not for long I'd say.

H.A.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 16:57
" ... it will postpone the extension of its flight schedule in August, due to its worsening financial situation."

Why cancel the flights if you have passengers paying for it?

Say 3 (additional) A330s, flying each 5x2 flights in one week = 30 segments.
7000 Pax : 30 = 233 Pax/flight. Not a bad load factor.

Supposing each Pax paid 500 EUR (return) = 3 500 000 EUR.

How does getting an additional 3.5M€ revenue worsen your financial situation ? Doesn't this cover the direct costs?
Of course cashing the money and not flying helps, but not for long I'd say.

H.A.
Simply because they are keeping the money and gving "vouchers". It's putting 3.5m EUR in their pocket that needs to be paid back whenever THEY say you can use your voucher. Criminal.

Darjeeling
Posts: 255
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 10:13

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Darjeeling »

Situation is seriously worsening at SN.
With such a financial slope, they won’t make it until the end of August. And this comes from a very good and highly ranked source inside SN.
The “fake bookings” aren’t a long term treasury solution and they even play with fire in keeping it on that way. Many Belgian travel agents have now been told to avoid booking at SN due to unstable situation.
With no real Belgian Federal government in sight, I don’t expect any solution anytime soon.

Passenger
Posts: 6825
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Now, deduct from those 7.000 those who have accepted a rerouting for a few weeks later. Then deduct the tickets that have not been issued on SN's 083 code (remember: LH tickets have been reimbursed, or are in processing, as refund is part of the agreed German rescue plan). Then deduct the tickets that haven't been paid/invoiced yet (example: business accounts). Then deduct the tickets that have been refunded indeed. And then tell me what is left from the 3,5M (I don't know as I don't have the above figures).

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Darjeeling wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 17:52
Many Belgian travel agents have now been told to avoid booking at SN due to unstable situation.
Source please.

oldblueeyes
Posts: 91
Joined: 13 Apr 2020, 12:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by oldblueeyes »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 16:57
" ... it will postpone the extension of its flight schedule in August, due to its worsening financial situation."

Why cancel the flights if you have passengers paying for it?

Say 3 (additional) A330s, flying each 5x2 flights in one week = 30 segments.
7000 Pax : 30 = 233 Pax/flight. Not a bad load factor.

Supposing each Pax paid 500 EUR (return) = 3 500 000 EUR.

How does getting an additional 3.5M€ revenue worsen your financial situation ? Doesn't this cover the direct costs?
Of course cashing the money and not flying helps, but not for long I'd say.

H.A.
What if we do have an example of misscommunication?

Your judgetment is totally right if we calculate the 7.000 pack with the ommon sense approach of the large public.

But what if a technical calculation of the airline was not converted properly by the PR towards the public?

Two facts:
- airlines count pax by sectors - so if one person is booked via a hub it will be counted twice
- on long haul the majority of pax are rather transfer pax than O&D -as we speak about tiny routes, the majority might be in this situation

Assuming 50% would be transfer pax, than the number of physical pax would go down by 1/3, as the hub users would be counted twice. And than suddenly the average number of pax per flight drops to 158 , so more or less slightly above 50% of a A333.

Depending on the booking classes, it might be more eocnomical to wait one more weak, since this additonal week by such a LF would anyhow mean a cash bun.

Boeing767copilot
Posts: 1308
Joined: 13 May 2004, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Has the time not come to examine and prepare a Plan B? For example, a restart with the support of or the cooperation of Tui fly Belgium?

oldblueeyes
Posts: 91
Joined: 13 Apr 2020, 12:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by oldblueeyes »

Boeing767copilot wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 19:58
Has the time not come to examine and prepare a Plan B? For example, a restart with the support of or the cooperation of Tui fly Belgium?
The patriots won't like a German company again.

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MD-11forever
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by MD-11forever »

Just had two great flights with Brussels Airlines (both perfectly on time):
BRU - NAP on 30/06 (A320, OO-SNL), loadfactor around 80%
NAP - BRU on 14/07 (A320, OO-SNK), loadfactor around 50-60%

On both flights, there was a very friendly cabin crew, especially on the return flight as there was a cabin crew member who chatted a few times with my 6-year old daughter and was really interested in what she was doing. You could really hear and see (behind the face mask) his passion for his job.
Great job Brussels Airlines!

When I compare this with my Ryanair flight to and from VLC in February, there was a large difference. The Ryanair crew seemed rather bored and was just doing what they were supposed to do. I know you cannot judge a company on two flights each (just want to prevent an off topic discussion, knowing the tensions over here ;) ), but it really felt this time like we were flying home.

I really hope they manage to get through the current crisis, as it really felt like a Belgian company, and it would be a shame to loose such a great and warm airline!

Oh, and before I'm getting accused of preferring one airline over the other: I had a great experience with TUIFly as well over the last few years.

Passenger
Posts: 6825
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

After last weeks' hearing in the Parliament with Dieter Vranckx (Brussels Airlines), Arnaud Feist (Brussels Airport) and Freek De Witte (DHL), there was another important meeting today. The Parliamentary Commission "Finances" has discussed 'aviation' today. The report of the meeting isn't online yet. But if minister Alexander De Croo really said there what VRT News reports that he has said (see down below), the negociations between Lufthansa and Belgium have ended without success. On 7th July, Dieter Vranckx said what will happen then.
VRT: Dat Brussels Airlines net vandaag communiceerde dat de uitbreiding van het vluchtaanbod tijdelijk op pauze wordt gezet, betreurde De Croo: "Ik betreur dat Brussels Airlines vandaag de expansie van haar vluchten stillegt. Ik denk dat dat een slag is in het gezicht van de werknemers die zware inspanningen leveren. Ik hoop dat de activiteiten snel kunnen hernemen. Maar dat zal niet aan ons zijn, dat ligt aan de responsiviteit van Lufthansa." Met die laatste opmerking geeft De Croo een duidelijke sneer aan het adres van Lufthansa, de moedermaatschappij van Brussels Airlines. De regering hekelt het feit dat de Duitsers erg traag gereageerd hebben en reageren op de Belgische voorstellen de voorbije maanden. Tussen 11 mei en 11 juli kwam er zelfs géén reactie op de Belgische voorstellen klinkt het. Het zet meteen de toon van de finale gesprekken die nu nog plaatsvinden.
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/07/15 ... n-uitblij/
Translation of the above VRT news report:
Google Translate: De Croo regretted the fact that Brussels Airlines just communicated today that the expansion of the flight offer is being temporarily put on hold: "I regret that Brussels Airlines is now stopping the expansion of its flights. I think that is a blow in the face of the employees who hard work. I hope the activities can resume quickly. But that won't be up to us, that's the responsiveness of Lufthansa. " With this last remark, De Croo gives a clear sneer to Lufthansa, the parent company of Brussels Airlines. The government criticizes the fact that the Germans have reacted very slowly and respond to the Belgian proposals in recent months. Between 11 May and 11 July, there was not even a reaction to the Belgian proposals. It immediately sets the tone for the final conversations that are still taking place.

Belgaviation
Posts: 35
Joined: 04 Jan 2015, 23:06

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Belgaviation »

Latest news

19:41: Brussels Airlines : Les discussions avec Lufthansa se concentrent toujours sur les modalités de l'aide belge

20:46: Brussels Airlines : Discussies met Lufthansa concentreren op modaliteiten Belgische steun

Passenger
Posts: 6825
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Belgaviation wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 22:51
Latest news:
19:41: Brussels Airlines : Les discussions avec Lufthansa se concentrent toujours sur les modalités de l'aide belge.
20:46: Brussels Airlines : Discussies met Lufthansa concentreren op modaliteiten Belgische steun
It seems that these are evening reports about today's parliamentary meeting.

Passenger
Posts: 6825
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Passenger wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 22:18
After last weeks' hearing in the Parliament with Dieter Vranckx (Brussels Airlines), Arnaud Feist (Brussels Airport) and Freek De Witte (DHL), there was another important meeting today. The Parliamentary Commission "Finances" has discussed 'aviation' today. The report of the meeting isn't online yet. But if minister Alexander De Croo really said there what VRT News reports that he has said (see down below), the negociations between Lufthansa and Belgium have ended without success. On 7th July, Dieter Vranckx said what will happen then.
VRT: Dat Brussels Airlines net vandaag communiceerde dat de uitbreiding van het vluchtaanbod tijdelijk op pauze wordt gezet, betreurde De Croo: "Ik betreur dat Brussels Airlines vandaag de expansie van haar vluchten stillegt. Ik denk dat dat een slag is in het gezicht van de werknemers die zware inspanningen leveren. Ik hoop dat de activiteiten snel kunnen hernemen. Maar dat zal niet aan ons zijn, dat ligt aan de responsiviteit van Lufthansa." Met die laatste opmerking geeft De Croo een duidelijke sneer aan het adres van Lufthansa, de moedermaatschappij van Brussels Airlines. De regering hekelt het feit dat de Duitsers erg traag gereageerd hebben en reageren op de Belgische voorstellen de voorbije maanden. Tussen 11 mei en 11 juli kwam er zelfs géén reactie op de Belgische voorstellen klinkt het. Het zet meteen de toon van de finale gesprekken die nu nog plaatsvinden.
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/07/15 ... n-uitblij/
Translation of the above VRT news report:
Google Translate: De Croo regretted the fact that Brussels Airlines just communicated today that the expansion of the flight offer is being temporarily put on hold: "I regret that Brussels Airlines is now stopping the expansion of its flights. I think that is a blow in the face of the employees who hard work. I hope the activities can resume quickly. But that won't be up to us, that's the responsiveness of Lufthansa. " With this last remark, De Croo gives a clear sneer to Lufthansa, the parent company of Brussels Airlines. The government criticizes the fact that the Germans have reacted very slowly and respond to the Belgian proposals in recent months. Between 11 May and 11 July, there was not even a reaction to the Belgian proposals. It immediately sets the tone for the final conversations that are still taking place.
Provisional report from today's meeting of the Commissie voor Financiën en Budget / Commission des Finances et du Budget:
pdf 1,43 MB:
https://www.dekamer.be/doc/CCRA/pdf/55/ac242.pdf

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