Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Bel33
Posts: 135
Joined: 18 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Bel33 »

sn26567 wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 14:08
Passenger wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 11:50
OO-SFE (333) is doing 2 x Kinshasa SN1357/SN1358: on 29th June and on 1st July:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfe
Special flights for the commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the independence of Congo?
There is also a flight from Kinshasa on friday 3th July!

longwings
Posts: 10
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 03:51

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by longwings »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 17:30
OO-SFG left BRU half an hour ago as SN1303 bound for ROB.
nordikcam wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 18:45
There is an other SN flight en route to FIH... SN1357
Passenger wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 11:50
OO-SFE (333) is doing 2 x Kinshasa SN1357/SN1358: on 29th June and on 1st July:
AFAIK, these are cargo-only flights using passenger aircraft. Scheduled passenger service to Africa has not started yet.
DannyVDB wrote:
28 Jun 2020, 09:20
(BTW: what is the exact difference between parked and stored)
As Conti64 mentioned, storage is long-term parking. Parking is typically for a grounding of two months or less. Over two months, storage is cheaper, however it takes longer to return a stored aircraft to service.

Brussels Airlines’ approach of having a mix of parked and stored aircraft is typical when a fleet is grounded for an undetermined period. Limited service can resume very quickly using parked aircraft. If the grounding lasts a few months, pilots will need to be (re)trained as well, so that time may be used to bring stored aircraft back in service.

The cost differential between parking and storage is due to the different procedures set forth in the aircraft manual. There is not a lot of work involved to park an aircraft and return to the skies, however ongoing maintenance is required. Parts need to be lubed at regular intervals, engines and electronics need to be run weekly, wheels rotated every few days to prevent flat spots, etc. I seem to recall reading somewhere Brussels Airlines needed 30 mechanics to maintain their parked aircraft.

Storing an aircraft takes much more work at the beginning and the end. Before storage, probes are removed, fluids are drained or replaced by a mixture to prevent seals cracking or the growth of bacteria, batteries are removed, openings are sealed (doors, connectors, engine inlets and outlets,…), cockpit windows covered, etc. To return an aircraft to service, most operators will perform a C or D check depending on how well the aircraft survived storage and where it stands on its scheduled maintenance, which can take weeks. The upside is that during storage, the clock “stops” as far as most maintenance requirements are concerned. A handful of mechanics is enough to take proper care of dozens of stored aircraft. The most exciting procedure is retracting and extending the landing gear once a year, which requires putting the aircraft on jacks.

Choosing parking vs storage is as much art, science, and preference between one-time and ongoing costs. Two operators in the same environment may reach different conclusions. A good example is Air Canada vs Westjet and their respective Max fleet. Air Canada stored most of theirs in the Southern US (dry non corrosive weather), and Wetjet is parking them at base.

Kapitein
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Kapitein »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 11:08
Kapitein wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 10:18
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 17:30
OO-SFG left BRU half an hour ago as SN1303 bound for ROB.

Liberia is one of the first African countries to reopen to international traffic, as from yesterday 28JUN actually.
The flight left from B Pier. Could this be a first passenger flight to AFI?

SN has reviewed the restart that shows all flights to AFI starting not before August.


SN Restart 29JUN.png


H.A.
There was already one regular flight last week to ABJ (not really sure), don’t know if they flew more later that week.
Last week I don't think so.
Normally (but what does this word really mean nowadays?) ABJ is to reopen as from tomorrow 01JUL. Strict measures on arrival, 14-day self-confinement required if coming from a country with more than 100 active cases and geo-tracking (don't have the details) on arrival.
AF should have a first passenger flight on 06JUL.
SN offers a BRU-COO-ABJ-BRU on 03JUL, but FR24 shows that OO-SFG flying SN1303 to ROB yesterday, continued further down the road to ABJ landing after midnight there, resuming the return flight tonight ABJ-ROB-BRU.

Strange times for sure.

H.A.
Sorry was indeed wrong about the destination. It was SN215 (OOSFE) to BJL that left on 22/6.

nordikcam
Posts: 1067
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

Does anyone have a "trick" for SN to answer the phone (reservations) or Facebook ... to reorganize canceled reservations. No answer. No one ! Nothing...

Shonix
Posts: 79
Joined: 31 Jan 2018, 12:06

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Shonix »

Flanker2 wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 20:16
If Belgium saves a German SN, can we also expect Belgium to save the 35.000 other companies employing 10 or more people in Belgium, for a total of 2.4 million jobs?

What about holdings like AB InBev? Or did you think that Germany was going to save them for us?

Saving all these companies will result in the bankruptcy of Belgium, so not all of them will be saved.
Expecting that a SN flying tourists to Malaga should be saved while other Belgian jobs are allowed to disappear is pure hypocrisy and foolish tunnel vision.

I also wonder one thing and I may hurt some feelings, but let's be real for a minute.
Please read the paragraph in full before you burst in anger.
SN was on the brink of bankruptcy for the past 12 years. People still working there have hence had plenty of time to assess the risk and look for another job. Many have jumped the sinking ship.
Working for a company constantly on the edge, always in the media with bad news, is it not a matter of choice?
If so, should such jobs be saved?
Personally, I left SN at the first sign of weakness and now earning multiples of what I earned there. If I was still working there, and the airline was allowed to go bankrupt, I would feel relieved to be put out of my misery.
I feel that a lot of people working for SN could do much better in other sectors, and that their talents are wasted working for a placeholder airline with no future.
Of course they could have resigned years ago and work in another sector with a much higher salary. Some of them did as you mentioned. However, some others are driven by one common characteristic: passion. There are so many different reasons why some left while other stayed. Besides that, yes some who were really passionate about working in the airline industry decided to leave because there was a better opportunity in a company with a brighter future.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

longwings wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 18:08
As Conti64 mentioned, storage is long-term parking. Parking is typically for a grounding of two months or less. Over two months, storage is cheaper, however it takes longer to return a stored aircraft to service.
[...]
Thanks for your clear explanations. Appreciated!
André
ex Sabena #26567

Flanker2
Posts: 1724
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

nordikcam wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 22:22
Does anyone have a "trick" for SN to answer the phone (reservations) or Facebook ... to reorganize canceled reservations. No answer. No one ! Nothing...
Airlines are doing this purposedly.
I hope that SN is not leaving call center people on unemployment while there is plenty of work for them, as that would constitute social fraud.

I was on the phone with Easyjet for 2 hours yesterday and had to shut it down.
Same story with getting your money back from Alitalia.


If it's not working for you, get your money back through your credit card company, the form is on
https://macarte.be/content/macarte-be/f ... pated.html
https://mijnkaart.be/nl/home/kunnen-we- ... pated.html

...and never book these airlines ever again.

If I can give an advice: Don't book flights unless you really really need to be somewhere.
Airlines are cancelling last minute, changing schedules, rebooking you without asking your permission on absurd itineraries that makes it difficult to change again or get reimbursed.

Alitalia is rebooking BRU-Italy on AMS-Italy itineraries, due to the Swissport situation, without considering the fact that the AMS flights arrive too late in FCO to catch any connections. The worst of all is that they don't even notify their passengers when they rebook them and everybody is ending up no-show. They don't even care if you hold a business flex ticket.


All these airlines deserve to fail.


PS if you desperately need to get an agent, try pressing a different option than "modify your flight". You might have a shorter wait.

Passenger
Posts: 6825
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Flanker2 wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 00:13
nordikcam wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 22:22
Does anyone have a "trick" for SN to answer the phone (reservations) or Facebook ... to reorganize canceled reservations. No answer. No one ! Nothing...
Airlines are doing this purposedly.
Airlines do not. Their call centres are fully staffed, but they are overloaded on value 11 on a scale 1-10. They handle files with two picking orders: groups and departure dates. And sometimes when you call, and one of them happens to have just finished a call, you're lucky.

Flanker2 wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 00:13
I hope that SN is not leaving call center people on unemployment while there is plenty of work for them, as that would constitute social fraud.
If you would just have even one (1) source within aviation or travel, you wouldn't post such flankerism.

DannyVDB
Posts: 860
Joined: 12 Aug 2003, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by DannyVDB »

sn26567 wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 23:40
longwings wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 18:08
As Conti64 mentioned, storage is long-term parking. Parking is typically for a grounding of two months or less. Over two months, storage is cheaper, however it takes longer to return a stored aircraft to service.
[...]
Thanks for your clear explanations. Appreciated!
Indeed, very comprehensive and interesting to read, thanks !

Danny

nordikcam
Posts: 1067
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

Flanker2 wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 00:13
nordikcam wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 22:22
Does anyone have a "trick" for SN to answer the phone (reservations) or Facebook ... to reorganize canceled reservations. No answer. No one ! Nothing...
Airlines are doing this purposedly.
I hope that SN is not leaving call center people on unemployment while there is plenty of work for them, as that would constitute social fraud.

I was on the phone with Easyjet for 2 hours yesterday and had to shut it down.
Same story with getting your money back from Alitalia.


If it's not working for you, get your money back through your credit card company, the form is on
https://macarte.be/content/macarte-be/f ... pated.html
https://mijnkaart.be/nl/home/kunnen-we- ... pated.html

...and never book these airlines ever again.

If I can give an advice: Don't book flights unless you really really need to be somewhere.
Airlines are cancelling last minute, changing schedules, rebooking you without asking your permission on absurd itineraries that makes it difficult to change again or get reimbursed.

Alitalia is rebooking BRU-Italy on AMS-Italy itineraries, due to the Swissport situation, without considering the fact that the AMS flights arrive too late in FCO to catch any connections. The worst of all is that they don't even notify their passengers when they rebook them and everybody is ending up no-show. They don't even care if you hold a business flex ticket.


All these airlines deserve to fail.


PS if you desperately need to get an agent, try pressing a different option than "modify your flight". You might have a shorter wait.
I need to have an agent. Nobody answers since 5 days. The reality of SN is surrealism. The website refers me to the Call Center or Facebook. Facebook: no response for 5 days. The Call Center picks up, presents the options ... and cuts off the communication. Zaventem desk closed. We're going around in circles ... and I'm starting to go around! I had given up international because of series cancellations ... I still had Europe. In fact even more! They have already disappeared ... by the small door! Too sad...

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

OO-SSR was to return this morning from PMI as SN1568 but this flight is cancelled according to Flightstats.com.
However, she left PMI about at the planned time and his heading towards BRU as SN9922 at normal FL380.
Technical?
In case of zero Pax, what would be the reason/advantage to fly under a SN9xxx number?

H.A.

crew1990
Posts: 1124
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 11:33
OO-SSR was to return this morning from PMI as SN1568 but this flight is cancelled according to Flightstats.com.
However, she left PMI about at the planned time and his heading towards BRU as SN9922 at normal FL380.
Technical?
In case of zero Pax, what would be the reason/advantage to fly under a SN9xxx number?

H.A.
The flight SN9xxx are always ferry flight without pax, and the difference is about taxes, but I don't have enough knowledge to talk about that, I just know that from the moment that there is 1 single passenger on a flight there are specific fees you have to pay for the entire flight. 1 or 180 pax, this is the same amount.So having a flight SN9xxx means, no pax on board.

Homo Aeroportus
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Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

crew1990 wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 13:51
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 11:33
OO-SSR was to return this morning from PMI as SN1568 but this flight is cancelled according to Flightstats.com.
However, she left PMI about at the planned time and his heading towards BRU as SN9922 at normal FL380.
Technical?
In case of zero Pax, what would be the reason/advantage to fly under a SN9xxx number?

H.A.
The flight SN9xxx are always ferry flight without pax, and the difference is about taxes, but I don't have enough knowledge to talk about that, I just know that from the moment that there is 1 single passenger on a flight there are specific fees you have to pay for the entire flight. 1 or 180 pax, this is the same amount.So having a flight SN9xxx means, no pax on board.

Thanks info Crew1990. That's what I imagined as well.
Tell me about respecting the distance on board !

Talking about which, can somebody enlighten us on load factors these days ?
I realize that a low LF risks depriving us from this feud on how criminal it is to force people to travel in these terribly confined spaces but ...


H.A.

FLYAIR10
Posts: 514
Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 22:05

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by FLYAIR10 »

Talking about which, can somebody enlighten us on load factors these days ?
I realize that a low LF risks depriving us from this feud on how criminal it is to force people to travel in these terribly confined spaces but ...
No idea about LF, but I seem to have read a few days ago that most flights performed thusfar were considered 'profitable'. So I guess , LF does not necessary have to be on the high side as long as there is enough 'revenue per flight '. Looking on the SN-booking tool for the coming week, I see some prices for return-tickets which are for sure higher than it used to be pre-corona. even in 'check and go'. paying +300 Euros for a return ticket to a EU destination is no exception; Even returns for +600 EUR are no exceptions. Those who need to travel these days will have to pay a bit more.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

I was told about load factors around 60%, which should still enable some social distancing and allow for some profit with the current prices. But some flights were near capacity.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Flanker2
Posts: 1724
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

Chaos at Brussels Airlines as the call center is unreachable.
55.000 calls per day instead of the usual 3000.

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/ch ... ~a2b80a0e/


As I said, book flights only if you really need to travel as chances are high that your flight could be cancelled or rescheduled or rebooked onto insane itineraries. Airlines should stop rebooking pax without their consent, as it will fill seats on other flights that pax could book while the rebooked pax has no options to reach the call center to void the rebooking.

And if your flight is cancelled, get a refund through your credit card company.
Don't accept the vouchers anymore. I had fights booked with vouchers cancelled, so now I have vouchers of vouchers of vouchers. When you then try to get a refund, it's complicated to explain to your credit card company as you have a different ticket number than the original transaction.

theeuropean
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Joined: 22 Dec 2009, 17:35

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by theeuropean »

Any news on the negotiations? It is dragging on for quite a while...

b720
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Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by b720 »

nordikcam wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 22:22
Does anyone have a "trick" for SN to answer the phone (reservations) or Facebook ... to reorganize canceled reservations. No answer. No one ! Nothing...
My flight July 24 got cancelled, and I booked it a week ago!
Tried calling SN call Center today, to no avail.. tried Miles amd more, they answered but could not help with a paid ticket, they suggested a message on Twitter. I tried again the call center, I was on hold For about 30 min but got through!
They are refunding me as. I refused all other options.. let’s wait and see how long that takes..keep trying the call Center, you will get through , eventually.

nordikcam
Posts: 1067
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

b720 wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 18:52
nordikcam wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 22:22
Does anyone have a "trick" for SN to answer the phone (reservations) or Facebook ... to reorganize canceled reservations. No answer. No one ! Nothing...
My flight July 24 got cancelled, and I booked it a week ago!
Tried calling SN call Center today, to no avail.. tried Miles amd more, they answered but could not help with a paid ticket, they suggested a message on Twitter. I tried again the call center, I was on hold For about 30 min but got through!
They are refunding me as. I refused all other options.. let’s wait and see how long that takes..keep trying the call Center, you will get through , eventually.
Thank you for this nice answer. 45 minutes on the phone ... got the better of my patience. I discovered SN in a light "amateur airline" far from normal standards. I'm on the verge of thinking that LH should put it in order. I'm going to drop my tickets. Too bad ... but they definitely lose a passenger. For another flight AF took 5 minutes to reimburse me for a long haul! I am ashamed !

Stij
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Stij »

theeuropean wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 17:52
Any news on the negotiations? It is dragging on for quite a while...
When politics are involved... the less you hear, the better...

Cheers,

Stij

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