Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Passenger wrote:
23 May 2020, 11:51
Few days ago, I wrote that most of the Brussels Airlines employees have left this forum, sick of the personal attacks and insults against their employer. I wonder what the Brussels Airport employees here think when they have to read this:
JOVAN wrote:
23 May 2020, 11:11
AF is a typical CEO coming from audit companies like KPMG, PWC, etc.
The CEO has a baby face with a fake smile.
Ansett wrote:
22 May 2020, 23:20
Knowing how A.F. has been behaving so far, he must be in a "wait and see mode", hoping not to have to intervene at the expense of his shareholders. To me it is quite obvious that the man only thinks of his shareholders (that's indeed his job). In spite of his never fading smile, he shows no empathy for anyone else but his shareholders and himself and will only act if he has a knife to his throat. Just like CS, he must be an ultra-neo-liberal who has not perhaps realized, yet, that a major change is in progress which might very well spell the end of this ultra or neo-liberal era.
(I wouldn't call a country with a global tax burden of 54% "ultra-neo-liberal" (whatever that means). To me, a 54% tax level is more socialist-like).
We remain silent bcs we don't need the huge feeling to bring everything in media. The best negotiations are between the scenes. Leaking into media would be not respectful towards each involved party.

To comment regarding Skytrax. You have to pay to be in that list. The more you pay the higher you are....

Let me make clear that most of the people here are not working in aviation or in related industries. So to their comments we don't have to react bcs it gives only endless discussions with people who have no clue what is going on and what everybody is doing and where is the place of everybody and what is allowed and what not.

And more we don't and will not say.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

I think Atlantis made the right conclusion. Furthermore, this topic is about Brussels Airlines, not Brussels Airport. Could we leave it there?
André
ex Sabena #26567

lucas
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lucas »

Can we please stop accusing each other of being insulting? It doesn't matter who did it, and if this person aknowledges it or not, as long as it doesn't happen that much any more in the future.
Maybe these posts should be removed by the admins?
So, can we go back to the topic?

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

lucas wrote:
23 May 2020, 22:08
Can we please stop accusing each other of being insulting? It doesn't matter who did it, and if this person aknowledges it or not, as long as it doesn't happen that much any more in the future.
Maybe these posts should be removed by the admins?
So, can we go back to the topic?
OK, let's do some cleaning and get back to the topic!
André
ex Sabena #26567

Ansett
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Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Ansett »

Passenger wrote:
23 May 2020, 11:51
Few days ago, I wrote that most of the Brussels Airlines employees have left this forum, sick of the personal attacks and insults against their employer. I wonder what the Brussels Airport employees here think when they have to read this:
JOVAN wrote:
23 May 2020, 11:11
AF is a typical CEO coming from audit companies like KPMG, PWC, etc.
The CEO has a baby face with a fake smile.
Ansett wrote:
22 May 2020, 23:20
Knowing how A.F. has been behaving so far, he must be in a "wait and see mode", hoping not to have to intervene at the expense of his shareholders. To me it is quite obvious that the man only thinks of his shareholders (that's indeed his job). In spite of his never fading smile, he shows no empathy for anyone else but his shareholders and himself and will only act if he has a knife to his throat. Just like CS, he must be an ultra-neo-liberal who has not perhaps realized, yet, that a major change is in progress which might very well spell the end of this ultra or neo-liberal era.
(I wouldn't call a country with a global tax burden of 54% "ultra-neo-liberal" (whatever that means). To me, a 54% tax level is more socialist-like).
Just to set the record straight : I never referred to Belgium or Belgian governments being "ultra-neo-liberal".
I referred to CEOs. That's quite something different, unless you suggest that multinationals rule the country.
And I am really surprised that such a knowledgeable person like you does not know the meaning of ultra or neo-liberalism. (google may help ;) )

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Ansett »

sn26567 wrote:
23 May 2020, 16:42
I think Atlantis made the right conclusion. Furthermore, this topic is about Brussels Airlines, not Brussels Airport. Could we leave it there?
Dear André,
Do not be offended, but discussing SN led to discussing the role or "non role" of Brussels Airport and its CEO in helping to solve SN's rescue. OK, I agree most has been said by members with differing opinions and we should go back to "pure" Brussels Airlines in 2020.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

My sympathy and support to all brussels airlines employees !
You always show professionalism, friendness and a nice taste of Belgium... you are obviously the n’est ambassadors of SN and yes, one of the main reason to choose Brussels Airlines over the others...
Stay strong and defend brussels airlines beautiful wings !

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Brussels Airlines working hard on relaunching basic network on 15 June (under the leadership of one of our former colleagues):
André
ex Sabena #26567

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Hello

I have just looked the 2020 summer network, for SN, i can't see Luanda and Freetwon. SN will also end service to Angola and Sierra Lone, after ended service to Conakry and Ouagadougou ? Montreal and Wahsington services are also canceled ?

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... il-august/

Edit: YUL and IAD should resume in 2021.

The offer will be gradually expanded from June 15 to reach 240 weekly flights in August. In Europe, a total of 45 destinations will be served in 20 countries, including Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, France and Denmark, details Brussels Airlines. For the long-haul, there will be 13 of the 17 normally insured in Africa (including two in Cameroon), subject to the approval of local authorities, and New York JFK, in the United States. Montreal, Canada, which should have joined the program last March, will do so sometime in 2021. https://translate.google.fr/translate?h ... a-fin-aout

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

And where are FRA, MUC, ZRH on the map ?

Duke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Duke »

rwandan-flyer wrote:
25 May 2020, 16:38
I have just looked the 2020 summer network, for SN, i can't see Luanda and Freetwon. SN will also end service to Angola and Sierra Lone, after ended service to Conakry and Ouagadougou ? Montreal and Wahsington services are also canceled ?
I've never understood the Luanda situation.
Luanda seems to be a high yield, oil related destination, with up to 3 weekly rotations.
But the return flight always routed via Kinshasa, which might be a nice experience the first time, but results in a huge time loss for business people on this flight. At least AF has (had?) direct flights, so in that way it was more competitive (don't know about ticket prices though...)
At the same time, people traveling to Kinshasa are often forced to fly via Luanda, and then head back to Kinshasa, making the flight about 3 hours longer than the direct flight to Kinshasa...
If the flight would have been direct, I guess it would have attracted more business passengers...
Regards,

Duke

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

Duke wrote:
25 May 2020, 17:17
rwandan-flyer wrote:
25 May 2020, 16:38
I have just looked the 2020 summer network, for SN, i can't see Luanda and Freetwon. SN will also end service to Angola and Sierra Lone, after ended service to Conakry and Ouagadougou ? Montreal and Wahsington services are also canceled ?
I've never understood the Luanda situation.
Luanda seems to be a high yield, oil related destination, with up to 3 weekly rotations.
But the return flight always routed via Kinshasa, which might be a nice experience the first time, but results in a huge time loss for business people on this flight. At least AF has (had?) direct flights, so in that way it was more competitive (don't know about ticket prices though...)
At the same time, people traveling to Kinshasa are often forced to fly via Luanda, and then head back to Kinshasa, making the flight about 3 hours longer than the direct flight to Kinshasa...
If the flight would have been direct, I guess it would have attracted more business passengers...
Regards,

Duke
True I think it's difficult to fill a plane to Brussels from Luanda anyway, from Frankfurt the connections are so much higher and it's working.
That's why a A321LR should be perfect to Luanda.
By the way Air France is doing the same with Kinshasa and Brazzaville but it's more logic.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

LJ
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by LJ »

Duke wrote:
25 May 2020, 17:17
I've never understood the Luanda situation.
Luanda seems to be a high yield, oil related destination, with up to 3 weekly rotations.Duke
AFAIK Luanda was/is high yield, but also high costs. Not many crews stay overnight (KLM flew to LAD, remained on the ground for 10 -15 hours and the same crew flew the aircraft back to AMS, AF still does that). The cost is enourmous and yields have been dropping as the oil business isn't booming anymore. A triangular flight is cheaper. Another alternative would be a tag, which KLM ultimately did (WDH).

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

I thought I understood that there would be SN flights on FRA, ZRH and MUC ... did I misunderstand? Thank you

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

nordikcam wrote:
25 May 2020, 18:32
I thought I understood that there would be SN flights on FRA, ZRH and MUC ... did I misunderstand? Thank you
Those were leaks from a plan that was still under discussion. When traffic will get back from 30% to normal (some time in 2021?), we'll probably see those flights to FRA, MUC and ZRH.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

sn26567 wrote:
25 May 2020, 18:45
nordikcam wrote:
25 May 2020, 18:32
I thought I understood that there would be SN flights on FRA, ZRH and MUC ... did I misunderstand? Thank you
Those were leaks from a plan that was still under discussion. When traffic will get back from 30% to normal (some time in 2021?), we'll probably see those flights to FRA, MUC and ZRH.
Exactly. Leaking info to the press doesn't mean that it will be.
Moreover, we can still see destinations which were first announced to not come back anymore like e.g. Warsaw will be back in July.
IAD will be back after September while sb was writing that it will be 2021.

Don't forget that what was announced will be gradually out of the schedule not immediately.

Flanker2
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

I think that the "network" is not realistic at all.

For Africa and JFK, you need the opening of the EU borders. That's not going to happen this summer.
Ibiza and PMI are not going to host any festivals and most likely the nightlife will remain closed.
So not much else to do there except the beaches.

Beach destinations can do ok, but too much emphasize on Portugal, which is very far.
There are more options closer by.
If I were SN, I would also plan these beach routes as tag-ons, to get enough pax and yield. Now they are selling them very cheap.
If there is enough demand, you can make them direct, there is no lack of aircraft.

With this kind of network planning and yield management, SN is going to bleed.

I'm not supportive of SN getting a dime of taxpayer money so they can waste it flying half empty planes to leisure destinations so Belgians can go there and spend their money. If they get taxpayer money, they should focus on inbound travel, to boost Belgium's own tourism industry.
The Scandinavian routes are nice in those regards, but most are outbound, so...

As far as I'm concerned, LH got their 9 billions from Germany, and they own SN, so no need to give them a dime of Belgian taxpayer money.
Those 390 Millions would be better spent saving Belgium's horeca and tourism industry.

I think that the only option is to nationalize SN. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they sink 3-4 Billions into it to make it work.
The aircraft can stay grounded until there is demand and serve only inbound tourism.
Let the competitors bleed if they want to bleed.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Flanker2 wrote:
25 May 2020, 21:44
I think that the "network" is not realistic at all.

For Africa and JFK, you need the opening of the EU borders. That's not going to happen this summer.
Ibiza and PMI are not going to host any festivals and most likely the nightlife will remain closed.
So not much else to do there except the beaches.

Beach destinations can do ok, but too much emphasize on Portugal, which is very far.
There are more options closer by.
If I were SN, I would also plan these beach routes as tag-ons, to get enough pax and yield. Now they are selling them very cheap.
If there is enough demand, you can make them direct, there is no lack of aircraft.

With this kind of network planning and yield management, SN is going to bleed.
Every airline is continuing to bleed in the coming months. But planes are already payed for, staff has to be payed anyway and oil is cheap thus flying around half full planes with passengers who didn’t pay much might still be better than doing nothing. :idea:

Also many Shengen countries already have flights outside Europe so apparently that’s no problem and it’s only an issue who is on those flights. AMS already has over 20 intercontinental destinations again.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Yuqu12 »

SN has posted its destinations it wants to serve again as of 15 June. However, I've been unable to find a timetable or the frequencies to each destination on their website. Can you only find it if you had a confirmed booking for a flight after this date or will SN publish this in the next coming days?

webstermc
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by webstermc »

Yuqu12 wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:04
SN has posted its destinations it wants to serve again as of 15 June. However, I've been unable to find a timetable or the frequencies to each destination on their website. Can you only find it if you had a confirmed booking for a flight after this date or will SN publish this in the next coming days?
It is mentioned in De Standaard: https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20200525_04970626
They are adapting the reservation system. Bookings should be possible by end of this week. Afterwards, the flight offer should be visible in the systems.

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