Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

FWIW this is now my own way of thinking but like I have said many months ago, to have the leisure destinations in the portfolio of SN was not a good idea and this was reflected in the YE figures of SN. The bankruptcy of Thomas Cook and the leisure flights caused that they were running into red figures

So, the only way to really cut in costs is everything regarding the fleet and to look what is too much. Back to basics, and this is always a very good idea.

Leave the leisure flights to TUI, they will be more than happy to have more full flights bcs spread over 2 companies will not be a good idea to fly with half empty planes. There is also Ryanair, Easyjet and next year Transavia. That's a bit too much in this time and next year. so hard decisions will be.

SN has to go back to the pure business flights, connections. With 30 to 35 planes they can start. I think also that prices will be higher again with less service. But this will be the only way for airlines to survive.

The previous model cannot be anymore with flights of 9 euro or sth.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Atlantis wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 10:16
FWIW this is now my own way of thinking but like I have said many months ago, to have the leisure destinations in the portfolio of SN was not a good idea and this was reflected in the YE figures of SN. The bankruptcy of Thomas Cook and the leisure flights caused that they were running into red figures

So, the only way to really cut in costs is everything regarding the fleet and to look what is too much. Back to basics, and this is always a very good idea.

Leave the leisure flights to TUI, they will be more than happy to have more full flights bcs spread over 2 companies will not be a good idea to fly with half empty planes. There is also Ryanair, Easyjet and next year Transavia. That's a bit too much in this time and next year. so hard decisions will be.

SN has to go back to the pure business flights, connections. With 30 to 35 planes they can start. I think also that prices will be higher again with less service. But this will be the only way for airlines to survive.

The previous model cannot be anymore with flights of 9 euro or sth.
30 to 35 planes seems a bit an overstretch.

A number of planes in the lower 20 should suffice to fly business oriented imho...

Another issue that comes to mind is the fact that the majority of SN's planes (if not all) are leased. Companies who own most of their fleet can have them stand idle, send them to the boneyard of sell them cheaper then their theoretical value.

While SN still has to adhere the leasing contracts or faces a (hefty?) penalty in terminating them early.

UJspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by UJspotting »

Airbus A330-223 'OO-SFU' to Marana Pinal Airport (MZJ/KMZJ) as SN9909 for scrapping.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

SN cancels 8 destinations to 31 of march 2021 : Seville, Valencia, Moscou, Marrakech, Bristol, Hanovre, Billund and Santorin...

https://www.lesoir.be/293607/article/20 ... -mars-2021

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

nordikcam wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 18:27
SN cancels 8 destinations to 31 of march 2021 : Seville, Valencia, Moscou, Marrakech, Bristol, Hanovre, Billund and Santorin...

https://www.lesoir.be/293607/article/20 ... -mars-2021
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/brus ... mmer-2021/

Direct consequence of the crisis.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

AAI
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by AAI »

and other destinations will follow, one of these days ...

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Some of those holiday destinations like Valencia and Santorini will not be missed. They are not giving the high revenue. So this is not a surprise and a good move of SN. I think that more of them will follow.

What is, on the other hand, a real surprise is Moscow. This is a city to be. They had of course the strong competition with Aeroflot with good service. If compared with the service of SN and the not always good slots then the bill is made.

Destinations in Germany or the UK are always up and down. Especially the UK seems very difficult for SN with exception of LHR. Maybe there will be now more chance for Air Antwerp on this.

A good cost saving is indeed to stop the lease contract with City jet.

More will follow later
Last edited by Atlantis on 09 Apr 2020, 22:44, edited 1 time in total.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

Valencia is not an "holiday" destination. If you want to go to all those touristic area Benidorm type, then Alicante is your airport.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Leave those destinations for Ryanair or Vueling. Its good to check the portfolio now.
BTW SN is not the only one who is doing this. Everything is questioned now by the majority of the airlines

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Atlantis wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 22:31
Some of those holiday destinations like Valencia and Santorini will not be missed. They are not giving the high revenue. So this is not a surprise and a good move of SN. I think that more of them will follow.
Not so sure. The holiday destinations were a good way to increase the usage of the aircraft when business destinations did not have to be served, e.g. during weekends and in the middle of the day. Furthermore,
holiday destination seats were often largely booked by tour operators and provided a fixed income, maybe not very high, but still profitable. The arrangements concluded between TUI and SN a few weeks before the corona crisis were a good example of a deal profitable to both parties.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Being popular and profitable are not the same

I agree that during weekends planes are more on the ground due to low business demand. So at that time there is maybe space for more leisure flights.

But during the week it should be during the whole day busy. SN was still not using all possibilities. The European portfolio was too small. In upcoming markets they were not present

If we compare with the Dutch, I know its hard to compare with them, they have a huge European portfolio to feed their longhaul. They have guts, a big mouth and they go for it, they try. We are too modest, too soft

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

The european network was not that bad neither, if you compare to Swiss or Austrian or many other airline

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skumfiduse
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by skumfiduse »

I never understood why SN doesn't fly to Helsinki. Finnair has a monopoly with multiple flights a day and fares starting easily at 300-400 euros (roundtrip).

Also, Istanbul is a question mark to me. There's quite some VFR-traffic on this route, thus willing to pay for it, semi-predictable travel pattern and willing to pay for it.

But then again: not every destination/flight is sustainable/profitable with an Airbus A319/A320. The CRJ (and previously Sukhoi Superjet and Dash 8) were a perfect fit on thinner routes. +/- 80 seats vs +/- 140 seats to fill...

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

skumfiduse wrote:
10 Apr 2020, 08:48
I never understood why SN doesn't fly to Helsinki. Finnair has a monopoly with multiple flights a day and fares starting easily at 300-400 euros (roundtrip).

Also, Istanbul is a question mark to me. There's quite some VFR-traffic on this route, thus willing to pay for it, semi-predictable travel pattern and willing to pay for it.

But then again: not every destination/flight is sustainable/profitable with an Airbus A319/A320. The CRJ (and previously Sukhoi Superjet and Dash 8) were a perfect fit on thinner routes. +/- 80 seats vs +/- 140 seats to fill...
Finnair fills its flights mainly thanks to its huge network to Asia. AF ended flights to Helsink, late 2000s. HEL is not served by British Airways, Swiss, Alitalia or Iberia.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

According several newspapers Mr D is confident that the Belgian state will bailout SN, although it will be a shrunk version.
Last edited by Poiu on 10 Apr 2020, 10:20, edited 1 time in total.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

rwandan-flyer wrote:
10 Apr 2020, 09:14


Finnair fills its flights mainly thanks to its huge network to Asia. AF ended flights to Helsink, late 2000s. HEL is not served by British Airways, Swiss, Alitalia or Iberia.
BA does fly to HEL. Did quite a few overnights there.

On another note. Davignon expects support from the state. Pre-liminary figure is 300 million EUR. LH is also at the table with the government. He is expecting to company to shrink 25-30% in order to survive.

My personal opinion: after the hostile take over from LH, I hope de government makes a hard deal here with LH. “Hun vel duur verkopen”. If they don’t, they risk handing 300 million EUR of Belgian taxpayers money to a company just to keep it afloat for a year, seeing they are losing 3million a day! Also I think 30% smaller is overoptimistic. I’m guessing 40-50% smaller.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

BA does fly to HEL. Did quite a few overnights there.
I just checked on British Airways website, for July 2020 and only Finnair flights are listed. I don't see BA on Helsinki Airport Wiki page.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

sean1982 wrote:
10 Apr 2020, 09:36

On another note. Davignon expects support from the state. Pre-liminary figure is 300 million EUR. LH is also at the table with the government. He is expecting to company to shrink 25-30% in order to survive.

My personal opinion: after the hostile take over from LH, I hope de government makes a hard deal here with LH. “Hun vel duur verkopen”. If they don’t, they risk handing 300 million EUR of Belgian taxpayers money to a company just to keep it afloat for a year, seeing they are losing 3million a day! Also I think 30% smaller is overoptimistic. I’m guessing 40-50% smaller.
One of Belgium’s leading economists, Geert Noels, is not impressed by the bailout, on Twitter he talks about throwing money away and LH conning the Belgian state a second time.

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Inquirer »

Poiu wrote:
10 Apr 2020, 10:24
One of Belgium’s leading economists, Geert Noels, is not impressed by the bailout, on Twitter he talks about throwing money away and LH conning the Belgian state a second time.
Woudn't it be better to wait for details of the deal before making comments as to whether it's a good idea?

At present all we know is that our government has decided to take action for them: the modalities are still completely unknow and as has been pointed out several times in the past, it does provide a rather unique opportunity to see Belgium gain back strategic influence all too easily lost in the past because of our national reluctance to defend vital economic players in our country, be it in the energy sector, the banking sector, the distribution sector or like here, the transportation sector.

FYI: Geert Noels is holding an MBA like tens of thousands of people in this country do (including myself) and is running a private investment fund; he's always very willing to opiniate rather negatively on all matters relating to the social-economic fabric of our country and is one of the prime advocates of the Chicago school of economics in Belgium, which luckily is just a fringe doctrine in continental Europe.
If Geert Noels would have been put in charge of handling of the fallout of the 2008 banking crisis in our country, there wouldn't be an economy to save from Corona right now. ;)
A few far better Belgian economists to look at for guidance are Prof. Dr. Koen Schoors or Prof. Dr. Paul De Grauwe, both chairs at reputated universities and with an in depth understanding of how our Rheinland economic model works, rather than living in an Anglo-Sakson economic dreamworld (at least to some: the model is often a true nightmare for most ordinary people not running hedge funds).
Oh, to link back to this website: Geert holds a Private Pilote License too, so Hi Geert!
If you read along: when are we going to go for a bike trip with Kris again? ;)

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by DeltaWiskey »

Poiu wrote:
10 Apr 2020, 10:24
One of Belgium’s leading economists, Geert Noels, is not impressed by the bailout, on Twitter he talks about throwing money away and LH conning the Belgian state a second time.
Based on a non-informative article in de standaard? De beste stuurlui staan aan wal.

Haters gonna hate, that sums up this thread perfectly.

Almost all European Airlines are receiving state support in one way or another in this unprecedented crisis. Some are in a much worse shape than Brussels Airlines, like Alitalia or Norwegian. Some are in much better shape, like Finnair, KLM. Let's also not forget that Brussels Airlines posted a profit in 2015, 2016, 2017 & 2018. That's in 4 our of the last 5 consecutive years. Figures for January and February 2020 were also much better that last year. Does it really matter what SN's financial state was 10 or 15 years ago?

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