Brussels Airlines in 2020

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737MAX
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Joined: 29 Aug 2017, 08:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by 737MAX »

lumumba wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:44
Looks like Belgium is not ready to save Brussels Airlines I think this would be a BIG BIG mistake....
On the contrary, I think they are looking into a way to save them. But I guess they are not stupid to throw money into it without thinking twice.

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

I can understand that many people here don't like Brussels Airlines because they work for a competitor airline. But for some people here, it's not just I don't like them, but I really hate them". A forum is freedom of speech, sure. But then, don't call yourself "grown-up". And don't call people who disagree with you on vision or even on facts, "narrowminded".

That said - there is not one airline that is not in danger now. They will all need some kind of intervention by the government. But when taxpayers money is involved, the Belgian government has to look at the economical relevance: loss of taxes, the number of jobs that could be lost to foreign airports/foreign airlines, and safeguarding the connectivity for Belgian enterprises.

Performance from the past is irrelevant now: aviation is back where it was on 11th September 2001.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

737MAX wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:53
lumumba wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:44
Looks like Belgium is not ready to save Brussels Airlines I think this would be a BIG BIG mistake....
On the contrary, I think they are looking into a way to save them. But I guess they are not stupid to throw money into it without thinking twice.
I hope you are right...
Hasta la victoria siempre.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:55
I can understand that many people here don't like Brussels Airlines because they work for a competitor airline. But for some people here, it's not just I don't like them, but I really hate them". A forum is freedom of speech, sure. But then, don't call yourself "grown-up". And don't call people who disagree with you on vision or even on facts, "narrowminded".

That said - there is not one airline that is not in danger now. They will all need some kind of intervention by the government. But when taxpayers money is involved, the Belgian government has to look at the economical relevance: loss of taxes, the number of jobs that could be lost to foreign airports/foreign airlines, and safeguarding the connectivity for Belgian enterprises.

Performance from the past is irrelevant now: aviation is back where it was on 11th September 2001.
Practice what you preach I would say. You still don’t understand it has nothing to do with emotion

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

A330 OO-SFG departed at 06:30 to Dakar DSS as SN9933 (repatriation flight).
André
ex Sabena #26567

Poiu
Posts: 816
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

737MAX wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:53
lumumba wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:44
Looks like Belgium is not ready to save Brussels Airlines I think this would be a BIG BIG mistake....
On the contrary, I think they are looking into a way to save them. But I guess they are not stupid to throw money into it without thinking twice.
Absolutely and rightfully so, and the participation in LH, which is rumoured in the press, is more or less what I was preaching here: invest in a branch of a solid, if that word still has meaning in today’s aviation world, group.
I used IAG as an example as, I think, when the sector recovers they will be the first ones who will have capacity problems especially because the 3 te runway at LHR has been put back in the fridge, but LH is the more obvious choice for the moment.
Those on here who think SN will continue to operate 45 aircraft and employ 3500 people in the near and midterm future are in for a nasty wake up call though.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Passenger wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:55

Performance from the past is irrelevant now: aviation is back where it was on 11th September 2001.
Irrelevant if you let it go.
If your house is full of cracks you can’t just put some paint and pretend they are gone. The house will collapse during the aftershocks.

737MAX
Posts: 436
Joined: 29 Aug 2017, 08:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by 737MAX »

Passenger wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:55
I can understand that many people here don't like Brussels Airlines because they work for a competitor airline. But for some people here, it's not just I don't like them, but I really hate them". A forum is freedom of speech, sure. But then, don't call yourself "grown-up". And don't call people who disagree with you on vision or even on facts, "narrowminded".

That said - there is not one airline that is not in danger now. They will all need some kind of intervention by the government. But when taxpayers money is involved, the Belgian government has to look at the economical relevance: loss of taxes, the number of jobs that could be lost to foreign airports/foreign airlines, and safeguarding the connectivity for Belgian enterprises.

Performance from the past is irrelevant now: aviation is back where it was on 11th September 2001.
I really don't like answering you, but I cannot let you say what I never said. I will always be happy to discuss with people who disagree with me as long as they can discuss as well. I call narrow-minded someone who will NEVER be able to change his mind, NEVER be able to understand the vision of others and who will ALWAYS think THEIR way is the way it should be. It has some limits of course - a Porsche owner will never be happy to drive a Dacia Duster.
The other way around is not true though...

Working for a competitor airline doesn't mean hating Brussels Airlines to any of us. I have never seen that around here. Everybody who works as a crew for a competitor airline has friends flying at Brussels Airlines, and none of these people wish to see their friends without a job anytime soon.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

737MAX wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 12:32
Everybody who works as a crew for a competitor airline has friends flying at Brussels Airlines, and none of these people wish to see their friends without a job anytime soon.
or worked indeed. Hear hear

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Poiu wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 11:54
737MAX wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:53
lumumba wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:44
Looks like Belgium is not ready to save Brussels Airlines I think this would be a BIG BIG mistake....
On the contrary, I think they are looking into a way to save them. But I guess they are not stupid to throw money into it without thinking twice.
Absolutely and rightfully so, and the participation in LH, which is rumoured in the press, is more or less what I was preaching here: invest in a branch of a solid, if that word still has meaning in today’s aviation world, group.
I used IAG as an example as, I think, when the sector recovers they will be the first ones who will have capacity problems especially because the 3 te runway at LHR has been put back in the fridge, but LH is the more obvious choice for the moment.
Those on here who think SN will continue to operate 45 aircraft and employ 3500 people in the near and midterm future are in for a nasty wake up call though.
I cannot recall anyone suggesting to continue SN just as it was...

Inquirer
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Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Inquirer »

sean1982 wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 12:58
737MAX wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 12:32
Everybody who works as a crew for a competitor airline has friends flying at Brussels Airlines, and none of these people wish to see their friends without a job anytime soon.
or worked indeed. Hear hear
Btw- I know this topic is about Brussels Airlines, but TUI Airlines Belgium is reportedly seeking around €150M from the FPIC too now: it backs up my idea that in both cases, the money is essentially needed to fund their flight operations when they go back online, flying with very low occupation levels for an extended period of time as a return to commercial normality will take quite some time?

But let's not focus on (in)direct employment too much here: the aim is to safeguard the strategic infrastructure which an nation's own airlines essentially are, not (just) the jobs at it; their rescue is but a positive side effect.

Belgians have a well documented traditional preference for bricks and thus tend to think the hard infrastructure like an airport (i.e. the bricks) is far more important to a country than the soft infrastructure (i.e. the based operators at it), but I'd agrue that without home based operators, the airport (even a bussy one) is pretty useless to your economy something underpinned by the extensive report from the NBB André referred to yesterday evening, not just when it comes to the (in)direct employment, but also to the BNP generated per passenger. We absolutely need to protect our BNP from faling through the floor and getting it back up as soon as we can, as each month like this one is estimated to cost us 3% of our BNP and we need a sufficiently high BNP to keep paying for our social security, our pensions, or schools... if not, long term, cut backs will have to be performed to them.

Inquirer
Posts: 2085
Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Inquirer »

Conti764 wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 13:24
Poiu wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 11:54
737MAX wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 10:53


On the contrary, I think they are looking into a way to save them. But I guess they are not stupid to throw money into it without thinking twice.
Absolutely and rightfully so, and the participation in LH, which is rumoured in the press, is more or less what I was preaching here: invest in a branch of a solid, if that word still has meaning in today’s aviation world, group.
I used IAG as an example as, I think, when the sector recovers they will be the first ones who will have capacity problems especially because the 3 te runway at LHR has been put back in the fridge, but LH is the more obvious choice for the moment.
Those on here who think SN will continue to operate 45 aircraft and employ 3500 people in the near and midterm future are in for a nasty wake up call though.
I cannot recall anyone suggesting to continue SN just as it was...
The number of airlines which have come forward stating they will return smaller is pretty telling already.
Which also means the idea pushed by Poiu makes not much sense, as British Airways will likely be smaller too and not be in such urgent need of additional capacity on the continent as they may have been before.
It would take years before you could get from them here in BRU, what you can get back the very moment Brussels Airlines starts flying again. We just don't have the luxury to wait for that.

Anyway, basically the concept is what seems could now be in the pipeline: Belgium taking a participation in the bigger holding company which owns Brussels Airlines.
This mechanism used to save Fortis is a smart move, as it gives you strategic leverage over the bigger entity stearing the group's strategy and a lucrative share in the overall profits, even if our local operations are for some reason less succcessful (they take the heat for the wider group maybe?).
The only difference I see is that for some inexplicable reason it MUST absolutely be IAG for Poiu, and absolutely not Lufthansa, even though it would mean changing the whole commercial and strategic orientation here at BRU, right at a moment when you'd need to do as much as you could to offer as much continuity where you can... Not the smartest ideas indeed as it is far too time consuming, sorry.
As I said: forget about specific names or individual products; look at the structure and the DNA: a child is your child because it has your genes, NOT because it carries your name.

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Inquirer »

Meanwhile, in France and the Netherlands, where both governments have been strategically participating in the AF-KLM holding since some time, both shareholders have decided to provide state guarantees for loans to AF and KLM respectively as the preferred way of safeguarding their national airlines: France for 4BN, Holland for 2BN.

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/buitenland/fr ... ~ab5c00a0/

and with this I go back to work as home office is making it far too easy to spend half a day surfing online... and doing basically nothing at the same time. ;)

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Inquirer wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 13:42
Poiu wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 11:54

the participation in LH, which is rumoured in the press, is more or less what I was preaching here: invest in a branch of a solid, if that word still has meaning in today’s aviation world, group.
I used IAG as an example as, I think, when the sector recovers...
The only difference I see is that for some inexplicable reason it MUST absolutely be IAG for Poiu, and absolutely not Lufthansa,
Where did I say absolutely IAG and absolutely not LH???

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

Inquirer wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 14:01
Meanwhile, in France and the Netherlands, where both governments have been strategically participating in the AF-KLM holding since some time, both shareholders have decided to provide state guarantees for loans to AF and KLM respectively as the preferred way of safeguarding their national airlines: France for 4BN, Holland for 2BN.

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/buitenland/fr ... ~ab5c00a0/

and with this I go back to work as home office is making it far too easy to spend half a day surfing online... and doing basically nothing at the same time. ;)
That's good news.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Luke777
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Joined: 13 Mar 2017, 21:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Luke777 »

Minister Decroo first wants to be informed why SN needs the extra money for, as government already took over most part of labour costs now...good question

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Aviation is one big family, this is another world.
It doesn't matter if you work for the airport, redcap, airline, handling, cleaning, we are one.

Nobody want to see SN going busted bcs it would have a huge impact for everybody.

This is a terrible difficult time for everybody. Commercial aviation will be smaller. Big airlines like AA took more then 100 planes out of the fleet. They are not the only one.

It will be smaller but better quality, maybe more revenue. The whole model will change

737MAX
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Joined: 29 Aug 2017, 08:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by 737MAX »

Atlantis wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 18:24

It will be smaller but better quality, maybe more revenue. The whole model will change
That's like saying Ryanair will disappear.
For legacy carriers maybe, but low cost airlines will remain successful in my opinion.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

sn26567 wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 11:44
A330 OO-SFG departed at 06:30 to Dakar DSS as SN9933 (for a repatriation flight).
... and then operated SN1040 from Dakar DSS to Cologne/Bonn.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

737MAX wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 20:12
Atlantis wrote:
03 Apr 2020, 18:24

It will be smaller but better quality, maybe more revenue. The whole model will change
That's like saying Ryanair will disappear.
For legacy carriers maybe, but low cost airlines will remain successful in my opinion.
Me thinks aviation will be more clearly diversified... True full service carriers, true low cost carriers and leisure carriers. The hybrid model of amongst others SN will disappear.

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