Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

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PttU
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by PttU » 18 Jul 2019, 22:57

sn26567 wrote:
18 Jul 2019, 08:30
KriVa wrote:
10 Jul 2019, 14:28
More than a few civil ATCOs are ex military. Working conditions, traffic load, salary,... are hardly a secret.
General Vansina, chief of the BAF, told me at a recent conference that military ATCOs were earning FIVE times less than skeyes ATCOs.

And they are not allowed to strike!

How are they ever going to live together?
No-one is in the military only for the money, right?

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 » 18 Sep 2019, 07:47

The management of skeyes wants to push a crucial agreement on the joint committee today. But because of the resistance of the Christian and the liberal trade union, the social unrest threatens to flare up again.

https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... 63367.html

https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... 63574.html

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 18 Sep 2019, 12:32

I had a feeling I would be responding here again today after a silent summer.

The agreement might be crucial for our CEO to have more (full) control over the rostering and planning of staff but it solves none of the issues the company is faced with.
Once again, it is displayed how good this management really is in reactive action, short term problemshooting and -solving and ignoring their staff as much as possible.
The staff shortage, the european demand for fatigue measures and a framework for rostering rules (maxima and minima) , the violations of rules and laws, ...
None of it is dealt with in this agreement.


mvg
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg » 04 Oct 2019, 06:30

Reading the article on HLN, if we can trust what the journalist wrote, Mr Callaerts said that some ATCOs are still rostered with 15 shifts over 16 days... That isn’t true...

It’s a total mess over there: I recently saw an Atco yelling at his manager because of a procedure and one hour later the same manager was yelling at another manager in a meeting about the same subject. That’s their way of communicating: if they are not happy, they shout and refuse to accept decisions or to follow procedures. How do you want a company to be running correctly like that?
Of course not everyone is doing things in this way but a minority of people behaving like kids can quickly have a bad influence on the rest of the group.

Times have changed. Airlines and airports have changed: its high time for them to change as well.

Bracebrace
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Bracebrace » 04 Oct 2019, 11:39

Sounds like too much ego in one place, both up & down the ladder...?

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 04 Oct 2019, 14:56

mvg wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 06:30
Reading the article on HLN, if we can trust what the journalist wrote, Mr Callaerts said that some ATCOs are still rostered with 15 shifts over 16 days... That isn’t true...

It’s a total mess over there: I recently saw an Atco yelling at his manager because of a procedure and one hour later the same manager was yelling at another manager in a meeting about the same subject. That’s their way of communicating: if they are not happy, they shout and refuse to accept decisions or to follow procedures. How do you want a company to be running correctly like that?
Of course not everyone is doing things in this way but a minority of people behaving like kids can quickly have a bad influence on the rest of the group.

Times have changed. Airlines and airports have changed: its high time for them to change as well.
Have you seen our rosters then with your own eyes?
Because I have, and it is true one person is rostered with 15/16.
Aside from this one case, there are over 20 other violations -of the law- in octobers roster, more specifically the mandatory 35h rest period per week. Over 20 in one month.
Do you think that is a normal way of working?

New "procedures" are introduced and existing ones rewritten without proper safety cases, with the sole purpose of continuing operations.
Controllers are pushed and intimidated to break policies and violate protocols if it would mean avoiding airspace closure or problematicly low traffic rates.
Safety is literally discarded in favor of continuity.
Obviously we are mad when confronted with this.
Wouldn't you be as an aviation professional?

I do agree it's a total mess over here though.
Can you imagine our excitement thinking of working under this CEO for another term?

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 » 04 Oct 2019, 16:26

Phoenixx wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 14:56
Can you imagine our excitement thinking of working under this CEO for another term?
Dominique Leroy, former Proximus CEO, is available, isn't she ? :D :D

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers » 04 Oct 2019, 18:49

Wahahahah!! :) :) Spot on! Voire "Touché" :) !

Poiu
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Poiu » 04 Oct 2019, 19:20

SR20 wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 16:26
Phoenixx wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 14:56
Can you imagine our excitement thinking of working under this CEO for another term?
Dominique Leroy, former Proximus CEO, is available, isn't she ? :D :D
Not for a Skyes salary!


mvg
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg » 05 Oct 2019, 07:11

Phoenixx wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 14:56
mvg wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 06:30
Reading the article on HLN, if we can trust what the journalist wrote, Mr Callaerts said that some ATCOs are still rostered with 15 shifts over 16 days... That isn’t true...

It’s a total mess over there: I recently saw an Atco yelling at his manager because of a procedure and one hour later the same manager was yelling at another manager in a meeting about the same subject. That’s their way of communicating: if they are not happy, they shout and refuse to accept decisions or to follow procedures. How do you want a company to be running correctly like that?
Of course not everyone is doing things in this way but a minority of people behaving like kids can quickly have a bad influence on the rest of the group.

Times have changed. Airlines and airports have changed: its high time for them to change as well.
Have you seen our rosters then with your own eyes?
Because I have, and it is true one person is rostered with 15/16.
Aside from this one case, there are over 20 other violations -of the law- in octobers roster, more specifically the mandatory 35h rest period per week. Over 20 in one month.
Do you think that is a normal way of working?

New "procedures" are introduced and existing ones rewritten without proper safety cases, with the sole purpose of continuing operations.
Controllers are pushed and intimidated to break policies and violate protocols if it would mean avoiding airspace closure or problematicly low traffic rates.
Safety is literally discarded in favor of continuity.
Obviously we are mad when confronted with this.
Wouldn't you be as an aviation professional?

I do agree it's a total mess over here though.
Can you imagine our excitement thinking of working under this CEO for another term?
Yes I have seen the rosters: no one has 15 shifts of work over a period of 16 days, as stated in the newspaper’s article. There is a mix between the words « shifts » and « days ».
As discussed before, working two nights (TWO shifts) counts for FOUR days. An Atco cannot pretend that he/she works FOUR days if he/she goes TWO times to work...

20 violations in a month: if you consider the old rules maybe. Not saying that the new ones are great but they very much look like what is done in other companies.

A safety case for new fostering rules? That doesn’t exist... A safety case (or safety review) is necessary to implement new operational procedures. It does not exist for rostering. A fatigue survey might be more appropriate. There are companies that conduct such studies with professionals.

I do understand that you are mad about those changes. When you have such great conditions and some of them are taken away, it’s never funny. Many aviation companies had to go through this over the last 20 years. Yours must be the last one which hasn’t gone through such a process. It’s time now to do it to avoid another Sabena or one of the other companies that went bankrupt recently.
The employees who are not happy about it can always look elsewhere and try to apply for a job with similar conditions: that doesn’t exist!

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KriVa
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by KriVa » 05 Oct 2019, 12:17

Tell that to people who recently moved to other ANSPs. Skyguide, LVNL, Eurocontrol, NATS, to name a few. None of those who left is even marginally interested in returning. Why do you think that is? Sure, we’re the odd one out, but not on the positive side of the scale these days.
By the end of this month we’ll have to have provided a list to planning with who will work which night shift in February. The final version of the planning for February will be released the second week of January. Good luck managing you private life!
On top of that, absolutely nobody knows what the new shifts will look like. We have no clue how long a night shift will last as from February forward, how much staff there will be, what the overlap will be between successive shifts, whether there will even be an overlap.
All in the name of continuity, safety and quality of life for the employees is very low on the list (which has been confirmed in writing, black on white).
Thomas

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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by sean1982 » 05 Oct 2019, 12:39

KriVa wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 12:17

By the end of this month we’ll have to have provided a list to planning with who will work which night shift in February. The final version of the planning for February will be released the second week of January. Good luck managing you private life!
Like every pilot, cabin crew member, dispatcher (to name a few) in the world, with that difference that they dont have anything to say about said roster. Again, lets puts stuff into perspective, There are enough nine to five jobs available.

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KriVa
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by KriVa » 05 Oct 2019, 12:59

I know a few pilots who I’d consider to be personal friends, and except for one, they all get their roster one month in advance. The one that’s an exception is due to the nature of the company he flies for, a (subcharter) cargo operator.
I don’t consider it a secret that I’ve been a cabin crew member for a few years myself. Again, same story, roster one month in advance. This allows people some time to arrange their private lives. I haven’t heard of a company where a bidding system isn’t implemented either. Whether it’s based on seniority or a rotation of groups, bidding for certain flights/days off etc. exists in pretty much any decent airline. The same thing is true for us. Contrary to what the media would have you believe, we don’t make the rosters ourselves and we don’t get everything we want. From time to time we’ll miss a birthday party, social event,... as well, same for everybody else who works in shifts. That isn’t, and never has been, a problem for any of us, you know that that’ll be part of life from day one.
What we do have an issue with is knee-jerk reactions.
Everybody who decides to fill in a night for February 2020 is signing a blank check. Nobody knows what the new shifts will look like, and the signs don’t show them being fatigue friendly.
You make it sound like we hate our job. Nothing could be further from the truth. We, or at the very least the large majority, love what we do, else we wouldn’t stick around. Its not an easy job, but it can be very fulfilling. What we don’t like about it should be rather obvious by now.

EDIT to clarify: The only thing we “have to say” about our rosters is an option to let planning know which nights we’d prefer to work. This list is generally copied 1:1 because it makes the life of the planning cell a lot easier and it allows employees to be a little proactive in regards to their personal life. If, for whatever reason, that night list is not completely filled out, the open nights are either assigned at random or a call is made whether anybody is still interested.
Thomas

mvg
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg » 05 Oct 2019, 14:44

Glad that someone is talking about the working conditions at NATS. Let me share a few differences with your company:
- NATS shifts last 8 hours: no early leave. Yours last officially 7 hours and most of them last only 6 hours. Over 20 days of work (usual amount of days worked in UK in a month), they work 40 hours more each month... As days last 6 hours in your company, it is equivalent to 6 or 7 days per month and brings you to your 26-27 days every month.
You don’t work more than in NATS BUT...

- in NATS they work on a 6/4 basis (6 days on, 4 days off (3 + sleep day)): no roster request, no night request: they have to work and follow the planning as it comes. You can make requests and many of them are fulfilled. Some of you only work mostly mornings, some never work nights: this is just amazing for such a job!

- salary is approximately 1000€ more after tax in UK but have you seen their pension scheme?? They will get way less than your 3500€ per month after tax! And for sure they will have to work later than you! Should we also mention the amount of traffic they have compared to Brussels?

- in NATS if you have a few incidents you can be fired without having anything to say. Not a single controller in your company has ever been in such a position. Never ever! Even when it was proved that an incident had been cause by neglect. Your job is so safe!

- in NATS, if they lose their medical, they lose their job. As a State employee, you are guarantee a job AT THE SAME PAYSCALE for the rest of your career! This is amazing as well! Ask pilots how it works for them! They have to pay a lot of money for a loss of income insurance to cover such case... And generally, they are only covered for a few years. You are covered for the rest of your life!

- and let’s just mention the quality of service delivered in the UK... We are talking about different jobs...

Bracebrace
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Bracebrace » 05 Oct 2019, 17:07

We get our roster approx 14 days in advance, no bidding system, off days can be requested a month prior to release (but there is a lot of flexibility, probably the best in the world). I know companies where roster is published 10 days in advance and nothing is "on request". When it comes to family life, this is a damn good company I work for. It is aviation, you can't have it all. We work 7/7, 24/24.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 06 Oct 2019, 04:07

mvg wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 07:11
Yes I have seen the rosters: no one has 15 shifts of work over a period of 16 days, as stated in the newspaper’s article. There is a mix between the words « shifts » and « days ».
As discussed before, working two nights (TWO shifts) counts for FOUR days. An Atco cannot pretend that he/she works FOUR days if he/she goes TWO times to work...

20 violations in a month: if you consider the old rules maybe. Not saying that the new ones are great but they very much look like what is done in other companies.

A safety case for new fostering rules? That doesn’t exist... A safety case (or safety review) is necessary to implement new operational procedures. It does not exist for rostering. A fatigue survey might be more appropriate. There are companies that conduct such studies with
Management may have pushed their vision of the nightshift consisting of a single working day followed by a resting day in the new way of working, but untill that takes effect in February this is not the case. Off days are HL, C or CP on our roster.
Everything with a number has always been considered as a day of work, except under this CEO and since this staff shortage. Strange how rules and their interpretations can bend like that suddenly.
A standby is also considered as a non working day by the way, do you think that is logical too?

Those 20 violations are violations of the Belgian law.
They are in the old system and they will be in the new one, that has nothing to do with "a new rostering system".
It's just another example of our management crossing the lines to hide and 'manage' their staff shortage.
Even their own lawyers know this, but by the time this would get to court, they will have passed another 2 years, which is the only thing they care about and their only solution for the staff shortage; suck it up and buy time.

Regarding the procedures, I was not referring to the rostering, but to actual operational procedures. Figured you were doing the same in your story of the shouting controller. Obviously there is no need for a safety case there. Some common sense on fatigue management and a shred of respect for their employees' personal lives (as they claim they have in the protocol) would pull a big red stripe through this plan already though.
mvg wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 14:44
Glad that someone is talking about the working conditions at NATS. Let me share a few differences with your company:
- NATS shifts last 8 hours: no early leave. Yours last officially 7 hours and most of them last only 6 hours. Over 20 days of work (usual amount of days worked in UK in a month), they work 40 hours more each month... As days last 6 hours in your company, it is equivalent to 6 or 7 days per month and brings you to your 26-27 days every month.
You don’t work more than in NATS BUT...

- in NATS they work on a 6/4 basis (6 days on, 4 days off (3 + sleep day)): no roster request, no night request: they have to work and follow the planning as it comes. You can make requests and many of them are fulfilled. Some of you only work mostly mornings, some never work nights: this is just amazing for such a job!
Our management is declaring at every staffmeeting that a 6/3 (sleeping day+2) is the very best they can do. We should be sooo happy.
They also added that we're too short staffed for that one, so that won't quite work yet next year. Or the one after that, maybe 2023. Either way, 6/3 VS 6/4.

Regarding our request advantage.
If you like late shifts, I prefer early and buddy here wants nights and your unit needs one of each for the next 6 days, is it so difficult to imagine that each of those shifts goes to the person who prefers it over the other?
Because that's exactly what we have, and only that.
If your preference is an option, you might get it, if it's not, tough cookie.

I have no idea where you get your maths there, but a 6/4 with 8h shifts gives me 144h, 18 shifts over a 30 day period.
In skeyes, with our 5/2, 7h shifts, 35h week, our current roster is 150h over 21.4 shifts for that same period.
Even if you would take an hour off every shift (which is ridiculous reasoning, but I'll go with it for easy calculations), that gives 129 hours over 21.4 shifts.
15hours less, 3.4 shifts more.

I think I know what I prefer between working a few hours more and being off half a week extra per month or getting some early leaves and only thereby having an advantage in that part of the maths.

Now if we bring our reality in the calculation:
Apart from this summer, where management had to keep the peace at all cost, I would have to search hard for a few months where I did not have +20h of overtime per month, which is around 3 shifts. (17h in your calculation of 6h shifts)
That brings us at 146 hours (170 hours in the roster) over 24.4 shifts.
2 hours and 6.4 shifts more for skeyes controllers.

But hooray we can tell the person puzzling our roster together we would prefer those 6 shifts to be early shifts and then we can go read online about how we should feel bad for that if we get 4 of those 6 planned as early on the roster, and therefore have the luxury of preferences..?

I know this sounds very sarcastic, and I'm trying to stay 'constructive' in the dialogue, but you can not expect us to be happy just because there are others who have it 'worse' on some aspects of the job or because we have some good things that others don't have. (assuming we still have them after January)
Kids might finish their food with that trick, but they won't be happy about that empty plate because of it.
Ofcourse there are good things and bad things. And while you focus on our -supposed- advantages and benefits , we are confronted daily with the cesspool that is skeyes.
Even with our passion and enthusiasm for our job as air traffic controller as gasmask, that smell is overpowering everything.
And that shower, deodorant and little air freshener in the car your boss provided will not get the smell out of your nose anymore.

mvg
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg » 06 Oct 2019, 19:59

Dear Phoenixx,

We really appreciate your answers. They are always to the point and we can feel your passion in all of them.

My apologies for the "safety case" part: I misunderstood your statement.

For the rest of the discussion (the way management is counting the nights, the violations of the laws (I don't fully agree with you) and so on) this is exactly the point where (most of) the Atcos are wrong, according to many of us (on this forum and in the public in general).

Before this mess started, you used to have a job, let's be honest, that you could call paradise. Such conditions are not found anywhere else. They don't exist anymore in any European company (ATC or aviation or any other sector). High salary, little working hours, rostering "a la carte", little time on position, permissive sick leave policy, job guarantee in case of loss of medical, no blame culture even in case of serious incident, no measurement of your efficiency, a great retirement age and a wonderful pension, and so on.

Would you mind giving examples of similar working conditions elsewhere? Of course you can find better parts if you look at the neighboring countries. But you can't wish to have the best bits of each of them. We have to compare the full packages. And Skeyes has by far the best one if you put everything into perspective (salary - working hours - flexibility - amount of traffic - easiness of the job - pension).
By the way, over the last 6 months, there has still been several Atcos with salaries well above 10000€* after tax because of the extra hours that they had worked. Good on them. Some are very happy about it and keep on working as much as they can.
*extra hours paid every three months

This is not possible anymore in 2019 if you want a company to be profitable. In many other sectors, workers would simply be fired and a new company would provide an even better service for way less money.
Luckily for you, and unlike for pilots, it is impossible to replace an Atco by another "just like that". Not because you have a difficult job that noone else can do (not saying it's an easy job either) but only because the laws and regulations require Atcos to go through specific training that is only applicable to their work location.

That training can only be given by your company for the belgian airports and airspace. And the "on the job training" can only be given by you, the controllers already qualified on the different positions.
In other words you have the key for everything! Not because you are doing your job properly or because you are supermen, but because the rules are so strict and so silly that even the best controller of the world is not allowed to come and work in your seat if he hasn't undergone years of training. Even if he works better than all the guys in your tower and even if that training could be done in 3 days he is not allowed to replace you.
Just imagine that a controller from Heathrow is not allowed to come and work in Oostende unless he goes back to school for a few years and trains on the job (live) for month! Really??

Because of that many controllers feel powerful and do not accept any single change in their long list of advantages. But in fact they are right! Why would they give away anything? They have the key to everything! And they have been abusing it for years and years!

The problem now is that you are facing a CEO that is playing the same game to you! He is using all his tricks to screw you up. And you can't do much! Why? Because he has a huge political support, because he is stubborn and because, as you said, anything that you bring to court takes years to be treated.

So please, allow us to smile a little bit when we hear some of the things that Atcos are complaining about. But we also quickly stop smiling because it has an impact on what we are all passioned for: aviation, especially in our country.

Forgive me for being a bit sarcastic too and of course there are some things about which you are right. But let's also be realistic: it would be high time to close Skeyes, to redesign everything from A till Z and to start a new company with a new management, with those who really want to work, those who can work correctly and who can adapt to the reality of the present.
Sooner or later it will happen. It would have happened already (look at the uk) if our country wasn't so much ruled by politicians.

Let me also add a few examples of what happens in some neighboring countries regarding ATC rostering and working conditions:

- 6 days ON/ 4 days off (sleep day + 3 days off) exists in several countries BUT the duty can be changed WITHOUT the consent of the employee if the change is required by the management more than 24 hours in advance.
e.g. you have a morning according to the roster and they call you one day before that you work an afternoon. Good luck to deal with this if you have kids or planned activities.
- a stand-by shift is usually considered as a working day BUT a stand-by does not only cover a morning or an afternoon: an Atco can be called for any shift between 06.00 and 22.00.
e.g. Atcos basically stay next to their phone the whole day... Many would prefer to go to work...
- if someone has an incident, he/she is immediately suspended until the end of the investigation. If he/she is found guilty of anything, he/she has to go back to training (all of a sudden the roster is changed without anything to say) AND take a full exam (theory and practise) before being reinstated. If the same Atco makes a similar mistakes a second time within the year, if it is serious of course, he/she will possibily be fired.

Not saying that this has to be implemented at Skeyes or that you deserve such poor conditions but only showing that you are very lucky with what you have.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 09 Oct 2019, 00:32

mvg wrote:
06 Oct 2019, 19:59
For the rest of the discussion (the way management is counting the nights, the violations of the laws (I don't fully agree with you) and so on) this is exactly the point where (most of) the Atcos are wrong, according to many of us (on this forum and in the public in general).

Forgive me for being a bit sarcastic too and of course there are some things about which you are right. But let's also be realistic: it would be high time to close Skeyes, to redesign everything from A till Z and to start a new company with a new management, with those who really want to work, those who can work correctly and who can adapt to the reality of the present.
Sooner or later it will happen. It would have happened already (look at the uk) if our country wasn't so much ruled by politicians.

Let me also add a few examples of what happens in some neighboring countries regarding ATC rostering and working conditions:

- 6 days ON/ 4 days off (sleep day + 3 days off) exists in several countries BUT the duty can be changed WITHOUT the consent of the employee if the change is required by the management more than 24 hours in advance.
e.g. you have a morning according to the roster and they call you one day before that you work an afternoon. Good luck to deal with this if you have kids or planned activities.
- a stand-by shift is usually considered as a working day BUT a stand-by does not only cover a morning or an afternoon: an Atco can be called for any shift between 06.00 and 22.00.
e.g. Atcos basically stay next to their phone the whole day... Many would prefer to go to work...
- if someone has an incident, he/she is immediately suspended until the end of the investigation. If he/she is found guilty of anything, he/she has to go back to training (all of a sudden the roster is changed without anything to say) AND take a full exam (theory and practise) before being reinstated. If the same Atco makes a similar mistakes a second time within the year, if it is serious of course, he/she will possibily be fired.

Not saying that this has to be implemented at Skeyes or that you deserve such poor conditions but only showing that you are very lucky with what you have.
The way management vs us are counting nightshifts is indeed a topic to discuss in court. The 35h rest per week however is a different issue, the law is crystal clear on that.
It also seems quite dubious to me, that with our 'great working conditions' and 'little working time', it's still seemingly impossible to make a roster where everybody has at least 35h rest in a week? That is just 1 full day + 11 hours before and/or after.
An early shift, a day off and any shift already gives an employee more rest than this.
Any shift+ day off + late shift also does the trick.
So almost any combination of 6 working days per 7 day week is legal and still, 20 violations in one month, on 250 controllers?!

If we wouldn't protest, we would still be working 11 days in a row, one day of rest and 11 days again. Parental leave requests would still go unanswered. Procedures and protocols would be guidelines to aim for. There would be more single person ops than you would want to imagine. And so on.
We would get all the 'worst' conditions from the neighbouring countries (he has to get inspiration somewhere) and lose nearly all the ones that make working at skeyes doable.
And looking at the way this man treats his (ex-) management, I'm very glad we have this 'protection' as a state official.
Ofcourse it's not meant (and shouldn't be used) to prevent an employee from being fired no matter the circumstances. But it allows us to speak up against this ceo's way of working (or at least the bad parts of it), his absolute lack of respect for his staff and his fake attitude towards safety in favor of continuity.
It allows us to be at ease about having a job, even after filing the 20th safety report against a new horrible or irresponsible procedure in a single month/ after complaining again because everybody from management and hr is refusing to answer simple questions for months on end/ after speaking up or being critical when management is again declaring all is good and they have no idea what staff shortage we are talking about.
If that got cancelled now, he would probably start by firing 10 of us to set an example for the rest, and I'm not talking about controllers who had incidents here...This man thrives on power. He goes out of his way to get control over everything and anything. Against a man like that, his staff needs this kind of protection, even if just to maintain a priority on safety.

Believe it or not, many of us are looking forward to the day that happens to skeyes. -If they don't put the same management in charge of the new company ofcourse- But like SR20 said earlier, Dominique Leroy is available, so maybe it's a good time for that?

Regarding the conditions you end up listing. Every up comes with a down. Goes for every company and skeyes is no exception there. So like you say, it's a fight to preserve some good, because the bad is coming wether we want it or not.

They tried implying the one sided shift change in the latest protocol here as well by the way, and not even with a one day notice. Same day, any moment of the day, even on off days. Continuity over personal lives to the max. Thankfully that was avoided. Could you imagine with our staff shortage?

As long as your standby time is work time, why not?
If it counts as part of the hours you have to do, what's the difference between working and sitting at home waiting?
We get overloaded rosters and then standbys on top at the moment. They only count as working time when we're actually called in... (A little trick to consider them as off days when making the roster)
We are still asking party to imply a standby system like the one you speak of, but again: staffshortage made that impossible, we would be rostered 25/30 days and have even more overtime than we do now. Another hilarious thing: our overtime pay is cancelled from February onwards. Because they claim there will be no more overtime. We're talking about 5 months from now.

We have a protocol where that is also the case by the way (suspension to non-ops, retraining and re-examination), it simply has not been used yet, to my knowledge.

An important thing to remember is that there is simply no trust left in this CEO. While we see the (good) potential use of any proposal coming to the table, we immediately think 'whats the worst that he could do with this' / 'what would be the wordt case scenario if this is implemented'. Because that's exactly what he does with the current rules and the trust and good will he started his term with. The worst. And then some. Force them to the maximum and break them if bending was not enough. A few staffmeetings where they present themselves as the good guys who mean well, followed again by months of the opposite in reality are not going to change that.

Anyhow, I think we're in for a little 'peace' again here untill they start talking about the rest of the rostering and fatigue management. Should be soon though. Very curious and quite scared to see what they will come up with there.
Also looking forward to compare our mandatory rostering minima and maxima to those of our neighbouring countries, I doubt we'll still come out on the positive side.

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