Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

[Nevihta]

Some additional info...
The base line is the lack of ATCO's that has been going on for the last 10 years and is reaching a peak now.
I would like to add that there's a european regulation applicable end of 2019 - 2020 which will be even more restrictive on rostering, extra hours, consecutive shifts, etc... (2017/373 I think). Most of the other ANSPs already tackled the topic, or took measures, we're far from there.

[Phoenixx]

I would like to add that there's a european regulation applicable end of 2019 - 2020 which will be even more restrictive on rostering, extra hours, consecutive shifts, etc... (2017/373 I think). Most of the other ANSPs already tackled the topic, or took measures, we're far from there.

The part you're referring to:

ATS.OR.320 Air traffic controllers' rostering system(s)
(a) An air traffic control service provider shall develop, implement and monitor a rostering system in order to manage
the risks of occupational fatigue of air traffic controllers through a safe alternation of duty and rest periods. Within
the rostering system, the air traffic control service provider shall specify the following elements:
(1) maximum consecutive working days with duty;
(2) maximum hours per duty period;
(3) maximum time providing air traffic control service without breaks;
(4) the ratio of duty periods to breaks when providing air traffic control service;
(5) minimum rest periods;
(6) maximum consecutive duty periods encroaching the night time, if applicable, depending upon the operating
hours of the air traffic control unit concerned;
(7) minimum rest period after a duty period encroaching the night time;
(8) minimum number of rest periods within a roster cycle.

(b) An air traffic control services provider shall consult those air traffic controllers who will be subject to the rostering
system, or, as applicable, their representatives, during its development and its application, to identify and mitigate
risks concerning fatigue which could be due to the rostering system itself

Do you see the issue?
Europe simply says 'set your own rules and maxima but talk with your employees'
Europe avoids concrete numbers and even guidelines, they passed the hot potato to the ANSPs who are not yet compliant (to this very vague but somehow logical-to-have list of internal rules)

Belgocontrol brought up the issue in the Company last year with the following lie: "Europe says we need to get a grid, so we are getting a grid. An external company is working on it, but it will be supergood for everybody"
Critique was not appreciated, questions were unwelcome, to our remarks that we might not want a grid they said "some of you will want it, so tough luck for the rest", the remark 'Europe does not force you to implement a grid' (they simply demand clear rules on paper) was avoided and was 'answered' with 'it will ensure increased reliability and predictability for both parties'.
A great way to introduce any and all change to your employees!

It seems fairly obvious an ANSP should put on paper that they will not allow more than 12 (which is ridiculous already, 8/9 would probably make a better absolute maximum) consecutive days for their staff... But Belgocontrol doesnt want to do this because that's one less person to call if they are short staffed.
It would be logical that they say 'any atco needs 10 hours between 2 shifts', but that means they can no longer call the late shifts of monday to do an early shift on tuesday...
They could exceed all advisory consecutive working time without breaks and put 3/4 hours straight as maximum (instead of the more responsible 2) but on a heavy winter ops night or a shortstaffed shift with some goodwill controllers, this still means reducing the capacity or position manning more (at least by a bit every now and then).

They hate putting rules on paper because if it's not confirmed, it's not a rule, and if there is no rule, how can they break it?
Not to mention the responsibility they have to take by now officially allowing a controller to work 12 days in a row, or 4 hours straight without break, or be back at work 9 hours after his last shift. Not very fatigue minded I would say...
This will protect and restrict both parties at the same time.

My prediction is they will continue as they do now; make nice looking rules, responsible and reasonable, and then violate them because of "exceptional service needs" and to "ensure operational continuity".. Which has been their joker for the past two years already.

[mvg]

Hi Phoenixx,

First I would also like to thank you for your inputs, your patience and also the way you write your posts.

Reacting now on your last post regarding the rules set by Europe.

These are guidelines and they are indeed not sufficient. Like for pilots it should be the same rules everywhere (speaking about rest time, fatigue management and rostering). Only an adaptation for local workload is acceptable. But we all know that Europe doesn’t work and almost never puts rules that go far enough. So now the company has got to deal with this.

But what are the issues now and why does management want to change?

The “maximum 12 days in a row” rule exists. The issue comes from the interpretation: for Atcos a night means two days of work and for the management one only (with rest day guaranteed). This is the whole issue of that rule and one side is gonna have to make a concession on that one because there is no compromise possible. A night counts for one or two days.
You said that in the past it was counting for two days: not really as there were no staffing issue and you never had to work 12 days in a row. In fact the question did not even come up. And there is no rule saying that it should count for two days. It is one shift (you get 14 hours for it - not all working hours but 14 hours paid), one time going to work, effective working hours on position like for one day, and every other country counts it for one day. So do all other companies in the country in every sector. And you get a sleep/rest day after your night, like everyone.
Good luck on that one...

Then comes the “minimum 10 hours” rule between two shifts. It does exist in your rules. Whether it is applied or not is another issue. Some controllers WANT to have a late afternoon followed by an early morning because they live far away and they want to sleep at work between their shifts to avoid going back home: that’s great! And they are not happy if they don’t get that late shift followed by the early morning!
So yes, 10 hours between shifts is a normal rule but then apply it as well. And don’t forget that your unit is not the only one.
Now just about rostering: the worse thing you can get is a shift ending at 22.00 followed by a one starting at 07.00 the next day. 9 hours rest instead of 10. Do you really get this on your roster? You get the shift finishing at 22.00 followed by the one starting at 08.00, which is 10.00 rest in between.
And if you do get that shift starting at 07.00, it is super easy to swap with a colleague as everybody likes to start at 07.00 to be able to finish very early around 13.00, isn’t it correct?

Now about the grid, the whole set of rules and so on: the big majority of the units in Europe operate with such a system because it is a fair planning for both sides (management and Atcos). The rules prevent Management from rostering you more than prescribed but also prevents Atcos from exaggerating with swaps, working too much (there was a time when some people liked working a lot to make money and hours to go on holidays), not remaining current at a position, and so on.
Once again change is coming and times when you get a roster “at your discretion” (choice of shifts) is coming to an end. That’s sad but this is the way every company is going.

It is also time for Atcos to work the hours they are paid for, to stop putting their private lives before their work (those who only want to work mornings for example, or those who call sick because their child is at home and their partner is working -> it’s never the partner who is calling sick but always the one working for Skeyes because it’s not a problem to call sick there, and so on). Without work they wouldn’t have the life they have now. Many forget it.

Last but not least, management is of course not doing well, not communicating well. For example taking an external company to implement the grid system is just to cover them and say that they do something about it. And if they come up with something stupid they can always say that it is because of the external company.
Things have to change there too.

[mvg]

Referring to a previous post about salaries, a few days ago a controller was interview by RTL-TVi. During his interview he complained that he was working too much (amongst other things). Fair enough.
But he also mentioned salaries of 6000€, which shows that the figures given earlier were correct for a radar controller in CANAC. And that does not include any of the extra premies (holidays, end of the year and so on).

(High salariés do not justify that safety is compromised, ofc it is. We have given our opinions enough. Only talking about the figures here)

[Phoenixx]

Hi Phoenixx,
The “maximum 12 days in a row” rule exists. The issue comes from the interpretation: for Atcos a night means two days of work and for the management one only (with rest day guaranteed). This is the whole issue of that rule and one side is gonna have to make a concession on that one because there is no compromise possible. A night counts for one or two days.
You said that in the past it was counting for two days: not really as there were no staffing issue and you never had to work 12 days in a row. In fact the question did not even come up. And there is no rule saying that it should count for two days. It is one shift (you get 14 hours for it - not all working hours but 14 hours paid), one time going to work, effective working hours on position like for one day, and every other country counts it for one day. So do all other companies in the country in every sector. And you get a sleep/rest day after your night, like everyone.
Good luck on that one...

Then comes the “minimum 10 hours” rule between two shifts. It does exist in your rules. Whether it is applied or not is another issue. Some controllers WANT to have a late afternoon followed by an early morning because they live far away and they want to sleep at work between their shifts to avoid going back home: that’s great! And they are not happy if they don’t get that late shift followed by the early morning!
So yes, 10 hours between shifts is a normal rule but then apply it as well. And don’t forget that your unit is not the only one.
Now just about rostering: the worse thing you can get is a shift ending at 22.00 followed by a one starting at 07.00 the next day. 9 hours rest instead of 10. Do you really get this on your roster? You get the shift finishing at 22.00 followed by the one starting at 08.00, which is 10.00 rest in between.
And if you do get that shift starting at 07.00, it is super easy to swap with a colleague as everybody likes to start at 07.00 to be able to finish very early around 13.00, isn’t it correct?

Now about the grid, the whole set of rules and so on: the big majority of the units in Europe operate with such a system because it is a fair planning for both sides (management and Atcos). The rules prevent Management from rostering you more than prescribed but also prevents Atcos from exaggerating with swaps, working too much (there was a time when some people liked working a lot to make money and hours to go on holidays), not remaining current at a position, and so on.
Once again change is coming and times when you get a roster “at your discretion” (choice of shifts) is coming to an end. That’s sad but this is the way every company is going.

It is also time for Atcos to work the hours they are paid for, to stop putting their private lives before their work (those who only want to work mornings for example, or those who call sick because their child is at home and their partner is working -> it’s never the partner who is calling sick but always the one working for Skeyes because it’s not a problem to call sick there, and so on). Without work they wouldn’t have the life they have now. Many forget it.

I know we can keep going back and forth on this, but I would like to make a few more additions.
There might not be a rule specifically stating a night (as we work them now, this rule used to exist in older times when they shift was different) should count for 2 days, but there is something like 'an aquired right', meaning a continued interpretation of a rule over an extended period of time implies a correct interpretation of that rule and can therefore not be changed one sided. But like I said, the CEO changes and then accepts he will have to go to court. Issue is, while waiting for a final verdict (which takes a year or more) his interpretation is used. So our night does not count for 2 days at the moment, and our rest day after the night is now considered an off day, wether we agree or not.
Anyway, all that is for a judge to decide, hopefully end of the year.
You can also find the long streaks of shifts on rosters without nightshift. They really don't work 5 days to have 2 off...
And yes there is obviously no point in having these rules if one or both parties see no obligation to follow them...

You are talking about a few exceptions who would sleep at work for this and who would complain or be unhappy if they don't get this combination on their roster, but yes these exist.
We used to receive these shift combinations on the roster frequently up to last summer, but after extensive complaints from some controllers, they are no longer rostered in in advance.
The late early combinations that you mention are still used to buffer abscences though. And it's a bit difficult to call that logic correct, 'we know it's not allowed but it's a popular shift so just swap if you have a problem with it'.

Like I said, protecting and restricting both parties...

I don't doubt the fairness of a grid, our issue is that nobody really benefits from it and it doesnt resolved the staffing issue, on the contrary.
What's wrong with us swapping shifts?
When i ask early and get late and my colleague has the opposite, doesnt it make sense that we swap?
If my kid has a birthday party for his friends and I ask off, but I get a late shift, is it wrong that i want to swap with a colleague to get an early shift so I can be there the last few hours at least?
Yes, it's an intresting feature for us, but one that costs company, management, country or customers nothing whatsoever, so what is the point in taking that away?
Again you're talking about old times and issues, because now we have not been able to take our over hours to go on vacation for quite some time already...
It's a management disease of all time to mess with something that works because they think they can do better and be surprised when they fail, but honestly; free employee benefits is something they can not afford to miss now. In a grid, there is no voluntary of
filling up shifts anymore, this has been confirmed by management.
It's all action and reaction. Take away the motivation for goodwill and you will lose goodwill, shocking but not surprising.
And as a last thing to think about; management still can not take responsibility or solve the issues at hand now, do you expect us to trust him to make a correct system for the rest of our carreers?

And yes I agree on the last part. There will be employees exploiting holes in the system in every company and they have to be dealt with.
But would it make anyone happier if i spend the last half hour of my shift sitting in a couch because the handover to next shift is done if i have half an hour unpaid time every day?
Not sure who benefits from that anyway.
I think many people put their private life before work and I don't see a problem with that idea as it is. We have a high enough divorce rate among atcos already for example. As long as it is reasonable and within your work agreement and rules (!) I would actually defend that rather than oppose it.
I'm sure you probably had something else in mind writing that.

I know I have my job to thank for the life I have, and I really do my best to do it well and do what is needed, but suddenly shuffling everything around because the CEO wants to enforce his will for no clear reason is not something I am willing to do just like that.

[Phoenixx]

Referring to a previous post about salaries, a few days ago a controller was interview by RTL-TVi. During his interview he complained that he was working too much (amongst other things). Fair enough.
But he also mentioned salaries of 6000€, which shows that the figures given earlier were correct for a radar controller in CANAC. And that does not include any of the extra premies (holidays, end of the year and so on).

(High salariés do not justify that safety is compromised, ofc it is. We have given our opinions enough. Only talking about the figures here)

My guess is that 6000 would be after taxes?
Did he mention if his overtime hours were included here?
Because honestly, 6000 base after taxes for a regular approach or area controller is just wrong.
And not to complain ofcourse, but that still sounds like a long way to go to exceed the prime ministers pay.

[mvg]

@ Phoenixx

To answer briefly your (very appreciated) posts.

For the night counting for two days (for rostering purposes), there is no rule, as you say. In front of a judge, I wouldn't bet much on your chances to win on that matter. Let's see...

About the CEO's way to do things: we all agree.

With swapping shifts, no problem! As stated before, it is part of your package and it's fantastic!
One wrong side of it, for example, is that some people who don't like to work at night are swapping for day shifts and never work at night. Night traffic and procedures are different and they become less and less current for those periods. There are other examples. But not a big deal, we agree, compared to the disadvantages of going into a grid system. By the way, in a grid system, one night is worth one day of work (see UK/NATS).

About Atco's trusting the management/CEO: of course that won't happen anymore and it's understandable. Something is gonna come out about this soon, don't worry.

About employees exploiting holes, it is more than that: it is a common practice (let's say it was before the current problems came out to the public). But in some units, it still happens daily now.
Why is that shift overlap necessary then? If 7 Atcos can leave 1 hour early, that's 7 hours taken away from the company, that's one full time, isn't it? With a 3 shifts rotation daily, that's 3 full time per day... This is theory of course but still... Staggered shifts are used in Maastricht and many other places. You leave the premises when you are released from a position by someone starting his/her shift. That's just basics... Like other proposals, haven't Atcos come up with such solution before?

About the 6000€ salary (after tax), he didn't talk about overtime (which doesn't mean that it wasn't included, let's be fair). But even without, they are above it (radar controllers in Canac with several years of experience, not tower). With overtime included, some were making much more than that when it was paid 250%. And it is indeed far from a Prime Minister salary.
Again nothing wrong with this. We only speak about what is going on here to be transparent and have different points of view.

[SR20]

About the 6000€ salary (after tax), he didn't talk about overtime (which doesn't mean that it wasn't included, let's be fair). But even without, they are above it (radar controllers in Canac with several years of experience, not tower). With overtime included, some were making much more than that when it was paid 250%. And it is indeed far from a Prime Minister salary.
Again nothing wrong with this. We only speak about what is going on here to be transparent and have different points of view.

I've seen this interview too. If I remember well, the CANAC ATCO talked about a 5100 EUR salary (after tax), that could go up to 6000 EUR with bonuses ! And he didn't look like a rookie in the job !
By bonuses, I understood he was talking about week-end bonuses, call-up bonuses and paid overtime. But that's my interpretation of course !

And reading all posts on this forum, I assume money is not the problem here so we cannot blame them for receiving extra money for their overtime hours, specially if they want to put an end to those overtime hours !

[mvg]

Yes. Atco’s salary is divided into three parts:
- basic, paid monthly
- premies/extras, paid monthly
- end of the year + holiday bonuses, paid yearly

5100€ is a common basic salary for an Atco with a few years experience in CANAC.
Premies/extras are (amongst others) the Sunday’s or public holidays hours, the night shift, teamwork, transport premies, recalls, and so on.
It quickly adds up to 800/1000€ per month, with two Sundays (or bank holidays) and without recalls.

Thus 6000€ monthly + the yearly end of the year and holiday premie (6000€ per year minimum so 500€ per month).

Total (around) 6500€ after tax (more if there are recalls, extra hours paid or overtime to be paid).

Money is not in their demands, you are right. But the amounts given before were questioned: it now looks like they were correct. And not including overtime.

For the people/companies impacted by the strikes it is important to have a complete overview of the situation and salary is part of it. Can we at least agree on those figures ?

[SR20]

For the people/companies impacted by the strikes it is important to have a complete overview of the situation and salary is part of it. Can we at least agree on those figures ?

I don't have any problem with those figures. It looks consistent with those published by Eurocontrol. I didn't check for other ANSP's

https://www.eurocontrol.int/faq/what-salary

But again, that's not the issue here !

[mvg]

For the people/companies impacted by the strikes it is important to have a complete overview of the situation and salary is part of it. Can we at least agree on those figures ?

I don't have any problem with those figures. It looks consistent with those published by Eurocontrol. I didn't check for other ANSP's

https://www.eurocontrol.int/faq/what-salary

But again, that's not the issue here !

Great! It isn’t an issue for you but it is a parameter for some of us to understand the job and the conditions (and my figures were put in doubt). Now we agree on the salaries.

The other questioned item was the hours effectively worked per shift. Instead of discussing back and forth, saying it’s true or false, could anyone tell us the amount of shifts/days worked over a year and the amount of hours worked on position for an Atco in Canac over the same year?
Not a rough estimation but the exact figures which are hopefully easy to find. And feel free to pick up a busy person.
That would close another discussion.
I still pretend that it is well under 4 hours per day.

@B737MAX
You are right: having a high salary may not give management the right to screw up the working conditions. But if you remember the start of this thread when those figures were given, it was mentioned that they were not correct. And several times comparisons were made with Atcos from neighboring countries who supposedly had better conditions. Salary being part of a “work package”, I find it important to give correct unquestioned figures to compare.
Last but not least, and even though this is purely emotional, a person who earns 1500€/month who had to cancel his family holidays because of the strikes (and lost money and leave days) might be more understanding if it was caused by someone having the same salary than by someone who earns four times more.

We are discussing here to try to have the full picture of what is going on, what people want, why there are issues and why it impacts so many people.
Also looking forward to reading some solutions (particularly short term). Apart from traffic restrictions (to which extend?), is there anything else?

[SR20]

For the people/companies impacted by the strikes it is important to have a complete overview of the situation and salary is part of it. Can we at least agree on those figures ?

I don't have any problem with those figures. It looks consistent with those published by Eurocontrol. I didn't check for other ANSP's

https://www.eurocontrol.int/faq/what-salary

But again, that's not the issue here !

Great! It isn’t an issue for you but it is a parameter for some of us to understand the job and the conditions (and my figures were put in doubt). Now we agree on the salaries.

I didn't say I agreed on those figures, I just said I didn't have any problem with ATCO'S earning that much, as it looks to be the same in Maastricht for the same job !
Don't put in my mouth words I didn't say !

[Poiu]

Mvg- the salary is not relevant, unless you want to paint the image of a spoiled brat. You could pay ATCOs a million a day, they still would be unable to work 8 days a week.
The same about a ruined holiday, the question is: do you want your holiday starting a day later or do you want to put your life in danger because a tired ATCO makes a mistake which is not caught up by the pilot (or the opposite). How much those who suffer from the inconvenience earn is absolutely not relevant. In my experience the person who earns 1500€ and sees his holiday ruined is often more understanding than the rich lady who takes the aircraft because she wants Botox injections from the same doctor who treats stars in another country.
As for your last point, about solutions, there again, solutions don’t have to come from the ATCOs, but from the management. As indicated by Phoenix, and others, ATCOs work as many days as they can, coming to work for extra money is what they are doing to help, an in-depth solution has to come from the management.

[mvg]

@SR20

Apologies for that misunderstanding.

And it was an interview by RTL-TVi so it could be that it was a fake controller who gave false figures. Better be careful

[mvg]

Mvg- the salary is not relevant, unless you want to paint the image of a spoiled brat. You could pay ATCOs a million a day, they still would be unable to work 8 days a week.
The same about a ruined holiday, the question is: do you want your holiday starting a day later or do you want to put your life in danger because a tired ATCO makes a mistake which is not caught up by the pilot (or the opposite). How much those who suffer from the inconvenience earn is absolutely not relevant. In my experience the person who earns 1500€ and sees his holiday ruined is often more understanding than the rich lady who takes the aircraft because she wants Botox injections from the same doctor who treats stars in another country.
As for your last point, about solutions, there again, solutions don’t have to come from the ATCOs, but from the management. As indicated by Phoenix, and others, ATCOs work as many days as they can, coming to work for extra money is what they are doing to help, an in-depth solution has to come from the management.

Read my posts please. Salaries are not relevant when it’s about working too much but the figures given initially were put in doubt.

About solutions, I don’t agree with you. Management has proposed some: they were refused for reasons that were explained here. Fair enough.
They must have their own solutions: what are they?
Because even if the current situation has been caused by wrong decisions by the management, a way out of this has to be found. And for years any solution brought up by the management has been refused by controllers!
Let me give you an example: let’s say that two years ago, Atcos refused to have their number of shifts reduced by one in a certain unit. The amount of Atcos at work per day was consequently kept at the same level. But had they accepted it, it would have freed two full time to go to a radar course. Two extra full time would have made a big difference in times like now!
Multiply it by 3 or 4 units over the company: that would be 6 or 8 full time trained by now! Half of the current problem solved probably.
Management tried but was forced to withdraw their proposal each time. The current situation is thus a shared responsibility. Solutions have to come from both sides without the public / the country to be impacted. We don’t care about internal disputes!

Hence my request to have real figures (not an estimation whoever it comes from) to see how many hours a controllers is effectively working per shift. If it’s 5 hours out of 7 per person, then there is no room to suppress a shift. If it’s closer to 3 or 3 1/2, then there is a problem. This is called measuring efficiency (at least part of it)

[Phoenixx]

By the way, in a grid system, one night is worth one day of work (see UK/NATS).

About employees exploiting holes, it is more than that: it is a common practice (let's say it was before the current problems came out to the public). But in some units, it still happens daily now.
Why is that shift overlap necessary then? If 7 Atcos can leave 1 hour early, that's 7 hours taken away from the company, that's one full time, isn't it? With a 3 shifts rotation daily, that's 3 full time per day... This is theory of course but still... Staggered shifts are used in Maastricht and many other places. You leave the premises when you are released from a position by someone starting his/her shift. That's just basics... Like other proposals, haven't Atcos come up with such solution before?

Funny you should say that, our CEO assumes exactly the same, while that is not necessarily true.
A grid can be composed however employer and employee agree under the window of rules they are under. (laws still can not be broken in setting out the grid basics)
They have communicated about this before (both internally and in public) , and I am sure they will do so again.
By going to court (well, literally telling employees to do so) and their attitude on the issue (where the topic is not up for discussion untill a verdict is given), they have frozen this discussion too for the rest of the year.
You can't put a mute on a topic, but then expect to only talk about it whenever you see the need for it.

This shift overlap is a common practice and has been around forever too, it gives time to deal with sickness, traffic and other delays (a shortstaffed start of the early shift would get many arrivals into holding), gives a buffer in case of a 1 person staff shortage on a shift (which during the day can often be handled without any flow restrictions thanks to this), gives space to have a staff reserve on the evening peak for example (which is very needed sometimes, especially in summer). One of those things where you might question its purpose, but every now and then you are very happy it's there.
The only solution management saw to this was again their complete reform in the grid.
But here you would have nearly no overlap, so as soon as an issue like I mentioned above comes up, you really do have a problem. In reality and in your specific example: (not talking about the reality so please do not quote me on this later )if 7 atcos leave one hour early, that's 7 times an unpaid half hour, and 7 times half an hour they would otherwise spend on break. Either you start your shift with break, or you end it on break in 0.5/1h overlap system, if the staffing and the buffer is there, why not?
Because you will end up at the issue of how much time a shift is worth, and it will be the same discussion as they had already again. Time an employee is available to the employer is working time.
We do have staggered shift by the way to a certain extent, not starting every hour ofcourse.

The salary you will not get me to agree on either, as I do not consider this an actual average salary.
The addition of overtime can make an easy 1000 euro difference (per month at the moment) in this too.
Ofcourse I will agree we earn a good salary and I understand it is not easy for a passenger earning 1500 to understand this, but the initial strike (and the only strike for that matter) had nothing to do with salary, it was a warning the system would burst and the lemons were nearly empty (among other things obviously).
They tried turning it against us, again, and look where we are now.

Solution wise it is obviously a very difficult case.
Both parties have a few absolute demands and absolute no's that seem to be conflicting. Some topics are absolutely not up for discussion from the management side (because of the lawsuits) and the unions refuse to accept regulating certain violations of laws and rules that management finds crucial for their operational continuity.
From what I know (because thats what they communicated over 6 months ago too) management wants to fix the long term first and then work out transitional measures but the employee/union side is more a fan of the opposite, show us that you can be reasonable in the short run and we will talk about the future afterwards, we're not signing a plan for the far away future first (over 5 years from now when staffing is hopefully as it should) to then hit a brick wall in negotiating the whole period in between and to be royally screwed again. The attitude of who is across the table determines your attitude too, mediators or not.

While it is hard to call this a solution by definition, I am starting to fear nothing fast will come out of the dialogue as you need mutual concessions and the silence hints that both parties are refusing to do so without the other giving in first (or more). In the best case media and management stop bashing us so the storm settles, both parties try to stop overpowering the other in one way or another, controllers find their motivation to once again do what it takes so we can continue this year with minimal closures and flow regulations due to staffing, and later this year we get a fresh wind that has his or her mind on A solution instead of HIS or HER solution.

I'm sure you were hoping for concrete scenarios that would solve this impasse, but the situation is so difficult, at least partially, because the useful measures are so limited...
Every measure (both in the passed or present) has consequences, and these were and are often the problem.
Employees did not refuse an acc course at all. But reduce tower staffing to let people go to a radar course?
Sure, but that means working with a controller less per shift, has a direct impact on your capacity according to your own procedures.
Management refused to touch their capacity, hence staffing could not be touched either.
Action and reaction, cause and effect. Logical and predictable outcomes that were ignored because it did not fit the agenda. We did not refuse the proposals, we simply pointed out the consequences.
And management was not ready to face the consequences of their own actions, no matter how needed certain actions were.
There are a few 'basic' measures to be taken now, but that means showing the cards first to know which one to imply.
Where is the priority?
Avoid closures at all time?
Avoid staffing flow regulations during the day?
Following the law and the rules?
Solving all problems is not possible with the snap of a finger, but if you know what you want to fix first, you can determine together which solutions are possible and relevant.
Ofcourse they decided to do so differently, "focus" on everything at once and decided to enforce their own vision even more, which does not work...

Regarding the hours and days, management is refusing to disclose figures (any and all figures, numbers, dates, averages, current number and goals, ...) unless it fits their agenda.
We have asked repeatedly to publish (if only internally) certain statistics and numbers, but we are getting a no. Avoid admitting everything and anything that could prove responsibility on their side.
So if and when management DOES bring something into the public, we are very suspicious...

[mvg]

Phoenixx, let’s go and have a drink together to talk about it I like your passion for your job. We might even be able to find a few acceptable solutions after a few beers

To keep it short if other people are still following:

- your buffer at the shift turnaround does NOT exist as people are leaving to home when they are replaced. If something happens 5 minutes past the hour, they are in their car and it’s too late for them to help. Every unit in the world operates like that: a shift worker is replaced at the end of his shift by the next shift... Same in other sectors...

- the half unpaid hour you mention is because of the half hour lunch unpaid break in the middle of the shift, right?
In such case, don’t forget that shifts start at quarter to the hour and finish at quarter past the hour. For example 06.45 till 15.15: who arrives at work 15 min before the hour and leaves 15 min after the hour at the end? Nobody! (Except the 08.00 o’clock start shift because of the (road) traffic to reach some units).

- you are right: you need both short term and long term solutions negotiated at the same time.

- no blame for not having concrete scenarios because there aren’t. Someone would have come up with one already. Conclusion: both sides will have to make concessions. The longer it takes, the bigger the concessions will have to be to get out of the mess.

- they pushed Atcos to go to court arrogantly? They know they are going to win (they have good advisors, lawyers who know their job very well). Why? Because texts are not clear or non-existant.

- you don’t need management to disclose figures as you have them. Everyone hopefully knows how many hours and how many days he is working. This is logged by computers, isn’t it?
One example: Gatwick approach, night shift of 9 hours, working time 5.30. Grid, standard, no discussion. Gatwick is the busiest single runway operation airport in the world. What’s Brussels’ranking?

Finally, one question: don’t you think that this management will have to leave otherwise it will never be all right?

[luchtzak]

25 April:

EBBU (Brussels)
Several sectors regulated due to ATC capacity/staffing.
High delays in West sector all evening.
Brussels airspace unavailable between 2330-0230UTC due to ATC staffing.
Ref NOTAM A1400/19.
High delays.

[jan_olieslagers]

this management will have to leave

To illustrate at least that someone is still reading: yes that seems very obvious. But it is not going to happen unless a strong arm government decides. Which is obviously nowhere in sight.

[SR20]

25 April:

EBBU (Brussels)
Several sectors regulated due to ATC capacity/staffing.
High delays in West sector all evening.
Brussels airspace unavailable between 2330-0230UTC due to ATC staffing.
Ref NOTAM A1400/19.
High delays.

Corridor berween LGG and Germany probably open again this night !

EBBR A1404/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/ATCH/IV/NBO/AE/000/085/5038N00533E
A) EBLG
B) 1904252330 1904260230
E) LIEGE TMA ONE, THREE, FOUR AND FIVE UPPER LIMIT RAISED TO
FL085. AVBL FOR TFC INBD AND OUBD EBLG ONLY

http://brusselstimes.com/business/15179 ... sick-again