Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

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Acid-drop
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Acid-drop » 13 Apr 2019, 10:17

The walloon minister in charge wants to negociate a minimul service for the next contract, starting 1 july 2019
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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luchtzak
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by luchtzak » 13 Apr 2019, 23:37

Belgian airspace below FL245 closed between 02:00 and 05:00 (UTC +2)

LECS (Sevilla)
CES sector regulated due to ATC Staffing.
High delays.

EBBU (Brussels)
Due to staffing issues the Belgian airspace (until FL245) will be not available between 0000 UTC and 0300 UTC on 14/04/2013.
NOTAMs A1259/19 and A1261/19 refers.

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sn26567
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by sn26567 » 13 Apr 2019, 23:45

Is there still a pilot onboard Skeyes?
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by luchtzak » 13 Apr 2019, 23:51

sn26567 wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 23:45
Is there still a pilot onboard Skeyes?
And still no communication on the matter by our Belgian Minister of Mobility Bellot :roll:

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Airbus330lover » 14 Apr 2019, 11:58

Call Maggie... and do a doctor's control....
If they are really sick, no problem, othewise... and the controler and the doctor will have a big problem

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg » 14 Apr 2019, 12:34

Here is how a doctor's control takes place (true story - heard many times).

The person got a sick note from his/her home doctor for 5 days.
Control doctor comes to home and after some checks says: "You have to go back to work earlier than what your doctor said".
Straight answer from the controller: "No problem, please write me a paper that you take responsibility in case I have an incident because I don't feel ok to go back to work."
Answer from the doctor (in panic): "Ok ok, in that case, stay at home as your doctor said"

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Passenger » 14 Apr 2019, 12:49

Acid-drop wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 10:17
The walloon minister in charge wants to negociate a minimul service for the next contract, starting 1 july 2019
In November 2017, the Belgian parliament introduced/accepted the "minimal service level" for the public railways. Voted against that minimal service level: SPA, PVDA/PTB, Ecolo/Groen and the political party from mr Partoune and mr Happart.

And now that PS demands that minister Crucke implements that same minimal service level for Skeyes? Agree - but then for all services please, and not just for that one service that is vital for Sowaer.

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by TLspotting » 14 Apr 2019, 12:50

No active NOTAM for the following night.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by sn26567 » 14 Apr 2019, 12:53

Acid-drop wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 10:17
The walloon minister in charge wants to negociate a minimul service for the next contract, starting 1 july 2019
https://www.aviation24.be/air-traffic-c ... th-skeyes/
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by sn26567 » 14 Apr 2019, 13:56

Passenger wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 12:49
And now that PS demands that minister Crucke implements that same minimal service level for Skeyes? Agree - but then for all services please, and not just for that one service that is vital for Sowaer.
It's not the PS which asks for minimum service, it's Minister Crucke, who, until further notice, is still a liberal.

But let's avoid political discussions here. Our goal should be to protect the economy of this country. Liege Airport serves a large area beyond Wallonia: The Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg,... Every measure that can stop this unnecessary closure of Belgian airspace should be welcomed, whatever political affiliation our readers might have.
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Passenger » 14 Apr 2019, 16:09

sn26567 wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 13:56
Passenger wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 12:49
And now that PS demands that minister Crucke implements that same minimal service level for Skeyes? Agree - but then for all services please, and not just for that one service that is vital for Sowaer.
It's not the PS which asks for minimum service, it's Minister Crucke, who, until further notice, is still a liberal.

But let's avoid political discussions here. Our goal should be to protect the economy of this country. Liege Airport serves a large area beyond Wallonia: The Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg,... Every measure that can stop this unnecessary closure of Belgian airspace should be welcomed, whatever political affiliation our readers might have.
I don't want to start a political discussion, but let's put the things as they are: the above arguments were never valid for the PS-FGTB when only Brussels Airport and the Port of Antwerp were affected. This strike at Skeyes seems to be a turnaround for the trade unions: whilst they used to damage Brussels Airport and Port of Antwerp only, they now also damage LGG and CRL.

And yes, it is the Partoune and Happart (Sowaer, PS) who demand that Crucke (MR) goes for the minimal service. L'Echo wrote about this move: "...la Sowaer recommande à la Région wallonne la voie de la négociation avec le Fédéral en ajoutant de clauses contraignantes dans le prochain contrat de gestion..."

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Acid-drop » 14 Apr 2019, 16:56

I don't want to start a political discussion, but let's put the things as they are: the above arguments were never valid for the PS-FGTB when only Brussels Airport and the Port of Antwerp were affected. This strike at Skeyes seems to be a turnaround for the trade unions: whilst they used to damage Brussels Airport and Port of Antwerp only, they now also damage LGG and CRL.
The observation might be right, but I'm not sure about your conclusion.
It's just that LGG and CRL were too small to attract attention back then, they hadn't the economic importance they have today. Now everybody is protecting their own eggs, as it should be, let the ABVV do their part on their side.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by sn26567 » 14 Apr 2019, 18:52

Passenger wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 16:09
And yes, it is the Partoune and Happart (Sowaer, PS) who demand that Crucke (MR) goes for the minimal service. L'Echo wrote about this move: "...la Sowaer recommande à la Région wallonne la voie de la négociation avec le Fédéral en ajoutant de clauses contraignantes dans le prochain contrat de gestion..."
I think you are confusing Sowaer and Liege Airport. Happart and Partoune are respectively Chairman and CEO of Liege Airport. Sowaer has respectively Vincent Urbain and Luc Vuylsteke as Chairman of the Board and CEO. The decision to negotiate a new contract with skeyes came from CEO Luc Vuylsteke, who is a liberal (MR).
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 » 14 Apr 2019, 19:00

Staff shortage tomorrow at LGG !

EBBR A1266/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/FALT/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5038N00527E
A) EBLG
B) 1904150600 1904152000
E) NO IFR/VFR TRG FLT ALLOWED

EBBR A1267/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/STLC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5038N00527E
A) EBLG
B) 1904150730 1904151755
D) 0730-0750 1000-1045 1500-1520 1710-1755
E) NO ATC PROVIDED DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERGENCY FREQ ARE WATCHED.

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by convair » 14 Apr 2019, 21:33

SR20 wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 19:00
Staff shortage tomorrow at LGG !

EBBR A1266/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/FALT/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5038N00527E
A) EBLG
B) 1904150600 1904152000
E) NO IFR/VFR TRG FLT ALLOWED

EBBR A1267/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/STLC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5038N00527E
A) EBLG
B) 1904150730 1904151755
D) 0730-0750 1000-1045 1500-1520 1710-1755
E) NO ATC PROVIDED DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERGENCY FREQ ARE WATCHED.
Could someone please translate in layman's language?
Thanks in advance.

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by flightlover » 14 Apr 2019, 22:17

first part means no training flights (instrument or visual flight rule) allowed between 06h and 20h on April 15.

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by evyncke » 14 Apr 2019, 22:39

A) => airport, EBLG = Liège
B) are the date and time, 2019 April 15th, then time in UTC (add 2 hours for local time)
D) unsure but probably a subset of B)
E) explanation (see above) + no 'air traffic control' == no crossing, no landing, no take-off except on emergency

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by sn26567 » 14 Apr 2019, 22:57

evyncke wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 22:39
D) unsure but probably a subset of B)
Interruptions of only 20 minutes? Surely coffee breaks! ;)
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg » 15 Apr 2019, 07:33

This Notam for EBLG is different than the one for ACC (CANAC) airspace closures.

The one for EBLG means that only two Atcos are present for the morning and two for the afternoon shifts (or maybe one morning, one middle shift and one afternoon)
EBLG Tower has to be manned by two Atcos at all times so if they are only two per shift, they take 20 minutes breaks two times per shift to be able to have a pause.
That does not affect the traffic at all because times are usually chosen when there is no commercial traffic foreseen and we can understand that they won’t accept training flights when they are short of staff (there are plenty of other aerodromes to go to train).

Nevertheless this is a bit awkward as we all know that there is almost no traffic in Liege during the day (especially if training flights are refused). One Atco is more than enough when there is nothing to do and the other one can easily rest on the side and go to the bathroom leaving his/her colleague alone for a few minutes.
Their answer will be: “what if the Atco who works alone has a heart attack?”... Well for sure nothing more serious than if the driver of a school bus has a heart attack... especially if there is no traffic on the frequency


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