Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance and Oneworld under one roof?

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Atlantis
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Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance and Oneworld under one roof?

Post by Atlantis » 17 Mar 2019, 13:29

Maybe not in the right topic but still about the future of BRU.

Maybe it is a time to caress more and to tight the bound with OneWorld at Brussels Airport. As we know since the acquisition of SN by LH, it is horribly quiet around Star Alliance and their expansion. Brussels Airport is the 5th biggest Star hub but LH is putting on hold other partners who would like to fly to BRU.

BRU has also a very close bound with OneWorld and has even from time to time a huge billboard with advertising OneWorld. SN would fit better in OneWorld, but ok....

6 Members of the 13 are flying multiple times a day to BRU but there is even more potential via other members who were flying already in the past to BRU or could have maybe their first flight to BRU.

American Airlines was always a loyal partner at BRU. Competition on the NY market and some other issues made them moving away. But the cards are looking different today. UA and SN have no intention to expand further. So American could jump into the evening flight from NY to BRU. This is still a huge opportunity since there is now an evening wave in long haul again since 2 years. AA could benefit from this as flights are coming from Africa, Dubai, Japan, China, etc. They can have the stopover at BRU and taking the evening flight to NY.

Also AA could start up the needed flight to Boston and why not Houston? If UA Is not doing this, AA can be the first one with free space.

A second airline is LATAM. They have now since last year the experience in flying to BRU with cargo flights. One of the logical next steps is starting up pax flights. From BRU is still a black spot. LATAM stopped their pax flights to/from Germany as too much competition on the German market. This is sth what they don't have here. 3 Flights a week could be a good start

Royal Jordanian was already flying for many years ex-Amman. They stopped and after some time they started again. This is however a question mark.

If LH is holding the horses, then others can benefit from it. One alliance don't have the monopoly and the market is open.
Within one or two years the construction will start of A pier West which could accommodate new long haul while at the B-councourse all jet bridges will be renewed by double bridges to handle faster long haul

ZavCity
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by ZavCity » 17 Mar 2019, 15:05

Hi
A very well written statement here and indeed the Germans are blocking the future of our airport(quid SQ??)..Oneworld should be a better option indeed..Thx for this post atlantis!
gtz
paul

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by nordikcam » 17 Mar 2019, 15:14

ZavCity wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 15:05
Hi
A very well written statement here and indeed the Germans are blocking the future of our airport(quid SQ??)..Oneworld should be a better option indeed..Thx for this post atlantis!
gtz
paul
We can say that the airport is labeled Star Alliance. Without connection traffic how could AA ensure the viability of a BOS or MIA? That said it is true that we must push the airport in its limits ( retranchements ) because SN can not do it and LH does not want any unfortunately. I hope the arrival of Latam and would appreciate the return of American...

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 17 Mar 2019, 21:12

Indeed nothing is to be expected from LH.

AA would be a nice extra at BRU.

How about Norwegian, that would definitely be a great plus.

I wonder if one of the ME airlines (Qatar Airways preferably) could fly US destinations via BRU.
That would be a big jump. They could establish a Belgian Subsidiary. Or even fly under QR number and catch more of the EU-US market.

one or two Latin American airlines with 3 - 4 flight a week.

the Chinese tourists will keep on coming to Europe, there is certainly room for more connections to other "less known" cities (Chengdu, Tianjin, Guanghzou, Xiamen, Qingdao...); all have bigger population than Paris, Berlin...

AMS growth will slow down somehow, so there is extra business (PAX)to take from there.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 17 Mar 2019, 21:13

You could have (some) other OW-airlines fly into BRU and offer connections. Or have them re-arrange their schedule and have Vueling restarting its BRU base for the lower end of the market...

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 17 Mar 2019, 21:53

ZavCity wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 15:05
Hi
A very well written statement here and indeed the Germans are blocking the future of our airport(quid SQ??)..Oneworld should be a better option indeed..Thx for this post atlantis!
gtz
paul
Dear ZavCity, thank you for your comment. Much appreciated.
SQ is still on the radar as we say. Scoop not (their LCC). Let's hope that SQ is smarter then CS at LH and see still the potential of BRU and the Belgian market
nordikcam wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 15:14

We can say that the airport is labeled Star Alliance. Without connection traffic how could AA ensure the viability of a BOS or MIA?
There is still a huge transfer market for AA at BRU. If Vueling, part of Iberia and British Airways, would start up flights again to BRU, then it can be like a feeder airlines. Vueling had a few years a small base at BRU but went away with the arrival of Ryanair.
But even their other members can create the connection flights. Finnair has a huge market with neighbour Russia while at the same time Finnair is not in a good financial shape and scanning their destinations all the time.
The same for Royal Jordanian. They keep flights on the ground as not profitable routes. They could use other members, like AA, to fly their pax to the US via BRU
JOVAN wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 21:12
Indeed nothing is to be expected from LH.

AA would be a nice extra at BRU.

How about Norwegian, that would definitely be a great plus.

I wonder if one of the ME airlines (Qatar Airways preferably) could fly US destinations via BRU.
That would be a big jump. They could establish a Belgian Subsidiary. Or even fly under QR number and catch more of the EU-US market.

one or two Latin American airlines with 3 - 4 flight a week.

the Chinese tourists will keep on coming to Europe, there is certainly room for more connections to other "less known" cities (Chengdu, Tianjin, Guanghzou, Xiamen, Qingdao...); all have bigger population than Paris, Berlin...

AMS growth will slow down somehow, so there is extra business (PAX)to take from there.
Hi JOVAN, thank you for your nice add. LH, CS, said even in own words that they don't want BRU to grow further bcs it's a rival in their backyard.

I would not count on Norwegian. They are really in a bad financial shape. Think about Primera Air. If they could find a reliable sponsor it would be great for them. When we speak about Norwegian then we only can think about LC long haul with them. LC in Europe via BRU is already saturated and not a good idea.
But if Norwegian could have plans for long haul in the direction of the US, great. Then we think about the East but for sure also about the West Coast.

Qatar is member of OW and they are doing good. They have daily pax flights and cargo flights to BRU. Maybe would be good to give them 5th Freedom and start up flights from BRU to the US or maybe, but this is unlikely, flights to India. Bcs India is the next black spot after SN stopped flying

China is a huge market and at this moment only one Chinese carrier with three destinations ex-BRU. With Sichuan Airlines cargo on board now at BRU, maybe next year there will be even pax flights to that part of China

AMS and LHR are full. It is time for BRU to stand up between the giants and to show that here is still place enough.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 18 Mar 2019, 11:50

Atlantis wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 21:53
Hi JOVAN, thank you for your nice add. LH, CS, said even in own words that they don't want BRU to grow further bcs it's a rival in their backyard.
If OW would want to grow at BRU, maybe with BRU acting as a reliever hub for LHR with BA starting an hourly shuttle service between BRU and LHR, update the B-pier and re-install the old 9W-transfercenter at the middle of it, allowing a smooth transfer between arriving international flights from OW and the said shuttle service.

I know some members will call it daydreaming or even ridicule the idea, but it's clear that we don't have to expect too much of SN (LH) regarding growth at BRU and it will be out of the box thinking that would bring in a healthy growth.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 18 Mar 2019, 21:38

If OW would want to grow at BRU, maybe with BRU acting as a reliever hub for LHR with BA starting an hourly shuttle service between BRU and LHR, update the B-pier and re-install the old 9W-transfer center at the middle of it, allowing a smooth transfer between arriving international flights from OW and the said shuttle service.

I know some members will call it daydreaming or even ridicule the idea, but it's clear that we don't have to expect too much of SN (LH) regarding growth at BRU and it will be out of the box thinking that would bring in a healthy growth.
Indeed, LHR (and CDG) are airports that normal people hate. Too big, user-unfriendly, overcrowded...

Make BRU the 5th London Airport and the 3th Paris Airport. Hourly connections to the main centers.
Location is perfect and TGV/ Eurostar connections easy to realize from BRU. ...
from BRU they should make it possible to fly to at least 10 destination each in UK and France.

And work on better connections from South of NL and western part of D ( Rotterdam, Eindhoven, Aachen, Dusseldorf, Cologne , .. = all great business centers.

THINK OUT of the BOX is indeed what BRU should do.
Last edited by sn26567 on 18 Mar 2019, 22:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 18 Mar 2019, 22:16

Conti764 wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 11:50
Atlantis wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 21:53
Hi JOVAN, thank you for your nice add. LH, CS, said even in own words that they don't want BRU to grow further bcs it's a rival in their backyard.
If OW would want to grow at BRU, maybe with BRU acting as a reliever hub for LHR with BA starting an hourly shuttle service between BRU and LHR, update the B-pier and re-install the old 9W-transfercenter at the middle of it, allowing a smooth transfer between arriving international flights from OW and the said shuttle service.

I know some members will call it daydreaming or even ridicule the idea, but it's clear that we don't have to expect too much of SN (LH) regarding growth at BRU and it will be out of the box thinking that would bring in a healthy growth.
BRU is a Star Alliance hub but it doesn't mean that you only can allow growth from them, let other alliance grow too like OW. That is the only alliance which can grow still and which has potential and there is no other big OW hub in the neighborhood

The transfercenter is always a good idea to bring it back. This is what it should be again like it was years ago, an airport where people depart, arrive but also a huge amount of transit and transfer pax.

Like I said many times here on this forum, we can't expect anything from LH bcs they will take away pax from BRU to let them transfer via German airports. We saw this with Helsinki and we see this now with Hannover. What will be next. We have to keep the pax here and to dig for other sources

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 19 Mar 2019, 10:03

TGV/ Eurostar connections easy to realize from BRU.
Perhaps not so easy as implied: with its measly three platforms, the railway station is close to maximum capacity. It must be said, though, that this is at least partly due to its use as a terminal station: some trains occupy the platforms much longer than just the time for transferring passengers. And no, it won't be easy to add platform capacity, plus nobody wants more Diabolo tax.

One possible formula could be to have a HST from either London or Paris pass by the Brussels South, Central and North stations, enter the airport from the North, and continue towards Liege, perhaps even continuing into Germany. But even that might be quite complicated to implement. HST from Paris could even avoid the (itself saturated) South-North transfer by using line 26, passing Brussels on the East side.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by BrightCedars » 19 Mar 2019, 10:03

Atlantis wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 13:29
Maybe not in the right topic but still about the future of BRU.
Worthy of it's own topic don't you think?

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by lumumba » 19 Mar 2019, 11:05

jan_olieslagers wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 10:03
TGV/ Eurostar connections easy to realize from BRU.
Perhaps not so easy as implied: with its measly three platforms, the railway station is close to maximum capacity. It must be said, though, that this is at least partly due to its use as a terminal station: some trains occupy the platforms much longer than just the time for transferring passengers. And no, it won't be easy to add platform capacity, plus nobody wants more Diabolo tax.

One possible formula could be to have a HST from either London or Paris pass by the Brussels South, Central and North stations, enter the airport from the North, and continue towards Liege, perhaps even continuing into Germany. But even that might be quite complicated to implement. HST from Paris could even avoid the (itself saturated) South-North transfer by using line 26, passing Brussels on the East side.
The platforms are huge so you can make it a terminus and transform the 3 to 6 platforms.
That could be a realistic solution but I'm not sure it's commercially viable.

Coming from the south it should be after Brussels but coming from the north after Antwerp without Brussels on the line it could be a problem.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 19 Mar 2019, 11:13

jan_olieslagers wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 10:03
TGV/ Eurostar connections easy to realize from BRU.
Perhaps not so easy as implied: with its measly three platforms, the railway station is close to maximum capacity. It must be said, though, that this is at least partly due to its use as a terminal station: some trains occupy the platforms much longer than just the time for transferring passengers. And no, it won't be easy to add platform capacity, plus nobody wants more Diabolo tax.

One possible formula could be to have a HST from either London or Paris pass by the Brussels South, Central and North stations, enter the airport from the North, and continue towards Liege, perhaps even continuing into Germany. But even that might be quite complicated to implement. HST from Paris could even avoid the (itself saturated) South-North transfer by using line 26, passing Brussels on the East side.
A few years ago there was a rumour on this forum that the station would be expanded to 10 (!) platforms... Don't know what happened...

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 19 Mar 2019, 19:18

Conti764 wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 11:13
jan_olieslagers wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 10:03
TGV/ Eurostar connections easy to realize from BRU.
Perhaps not so easy as implied: with its measly three platforms, the railway station is close to maximum capacity. It must be said, though, that this is at least partly due to its use as a terminal station: some trains occupy the platforms much longer than just the time for transferring passengers. And no, it won't be easy to add platform capacity, plus nobody wants more Diabolo tax.

One possible formula could be to have a HST from either London or Paris pass by the Brussels South, Central and North stations, enter the airport from the North, and continue towards Liege, perhaps even continuing into Germany. But even that might be quite complicated to implement. HST from Paris could even avoid the (itself saturated) South-North transfer by using line 26, passing Brussels on the East side.
A few years ago there was a rumour on this forum that the station would be expanded to 10 (!) platforms... Don't know what happened...
That is indeed still the case. A huge expansion of the train station under the airport and this indeed with 10 platforms. But it will be in phases of course. This all in the Mobility plan which is also part of 2040.

Regarding OW and Star as big alliances at the airport. The B-Councourse could be reserved for Star and the new A-concourse West could be reserved for OW.

On this way you give both alliances an own place and the airlines can be moved to the right terminal/concourse.
At the same time, with the new Terminal (or the Terminal of the Future) you can give them even an own check in and fast connection to the concourse. The new part of the terminal for OW with direct access to the A-Concourse and the "old part" of the terminal to Star with direct access to the B-concourse

On this way you really could place BRU on the map and making it also attractive to new potential carriers

To the moderators: maybe is indeed a good idea to place all our posts in a new topic which we can call: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star and OW under one roof?

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance and Oneworld under one roof?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 19 Mar 2019, 20:11

@atlantis: regarding the railway station, and its expansion, do you have any reference? Excuse my scepticism, but "10 platforms" seems very very ambitious. Even physically it seems very difficult (add an extra level below the present station, perhaps?) but above all it cannot be but extremely expensive. Who indeed is going to pay for this, if even the present 3-platform station required the very unpopular Diabolo tax?

And yes, the present Diabolo project included access tunnels both South and North - but these current access tunnels will be insufficient to serve 10 platforms; so more access railways will be required, too. Not a small or easy project! I agree it is highly desirable, but the cost must be prohibitive.

Then again, what airport terminal has a 10-platform railway station? Schiphol? Frankfurt? Heathrow? CDG? Who do they think they are :) ? But nothing wrong with daydreaming, of course - if we keep it at that...

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance and Oneworld under one roof?

Post by Conti764 » 19 Mar 2019, 21:09

As you stated correctly, tunnel access is the major issue here, but the expansion to (even) 10 platforms won't be such an issue technically speaking. They could expand it westwards without too much of a hassle since the expansion would be under the current parking buildings and the old DHL building which is to disappear anyway.

I am convinced the airport station could play a key role in solving the issue with our national railway system, namely the North-South bottleneck. Together with the Weststation in Molenbeek it could relief this stretch and serve as some sort of Brussels East. As such, up to 10 platforms wouldn't be too far fetched...

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 19 Mar 2019, 21:12

Atlantis wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 19:18
Conti764 wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 11:13
jan_olieslagers wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 10:03


Perhaps not so easy as implied: with its measly three platforms, the railway station is close to maximum capacity. It must be said, though, that this is at least partly due to its use as a terminal station: some trains occupy the platforms much longer than just the time for transferring passengers. And no, it won't be easy to add platform capacity, plus nobody wants more Diabolo tax.

One possible formula could be to have a HST from either London or Paris pass by the Brussels South, Central and North stations, enter the airport from the North, and continue towards Liege, perhaps even continuing into Germany. But even that might be quite complicated to implement. HST from Paris could even avoid the (itself saturated) South-North transfer by using line 26, passing Brussels on the East side.
A few years ago there was a rumour on this forum that the station would be expanded to 10 (!) platforms... Don't know what happened...
That is indeed still the case. A huge expansion of the train station under the airport and this indeed with 10 platforms. But it will be in phases of course. This all in the Mobility plan which is also part of 2040.

Regarding OW and Star as big alliances at the airport. The B-Councourse could be reserved for Star and the new A-concourse West could be reserved for OW.

On this way you give both alliances an own place and the airlines can be moved to the right terminal/concourse.
At the same time, with the new Terminal (or the Terminal of the Future) you can give them even an own check in and fast connection to the concourse. The new part of the terminal for OW with direct access to the A-Concourse and the "old part" of the terminal to Star with direct access to the B-concourse

On this way you really could place BRU on the map and making it also attractive to new potential carriers

To the moderators: maybe is indeed a good idea to place all our posts in a new topic which we can call: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star and OW under one roof?
I'd do it the other way around: A-pier West to Star and B-pier to Oneworld since in my idea BRU would mainly serve a function as reliever hub to LHR, thus having smooth connections extra shengen.

Another thing I'd consider is an airside hotel to cater for transfer pax.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance and Oneworld under one roof?

Post by convair » 19 Mar 2019, 22:00

Very ambitious projects for once! Let's hope some of them materialize in the near future.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 19 Mar 2019, 22:02

Conti764 wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 21:12
Atlantis wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 19:18
Conti764 wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 11:13


A few years ago there was a rumour on this forum that the station would be expanded to 10 (!) platforms... Don't know what happened...
That is indeed still the case. A huge expansion of the train station under the airport and this indeed with 10 platforms. But it will be in phases of course. This all in the Mobility plan which is also part of 2040.

Regarding OW and Star as big alliances at the airport. The B-Councourse could be reserved for Star and the new A-concourse West could be reserved for OW.

On this way you give both alliances an own place and the airlines can be moved to the right terminal/concourse.
At the same time, with the new Terminal (or the Terminal of the Future) you can give them even an own check in and fast connection to the concourse. The new part of the terminal for OW with direct access to the A-Concourse and the "old part" of the terminal to Star with direct access to the B-concourse

On this way you really could place BRU on the map and making it also attractive to new potential carriers

To the moderators: maybe is indeed a good idea to place all our posts in a new topic which we can call: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star and OW under one roof?
I'd do it the other way around: A-pier West to Star and B-pier to Oneworld since in my idea BRU would mainly serve a function as reliever hub to LHR, thus having smooth connections extra shengen.

Another thing I'd consider is an airside hotel to cater for transfer pax.
An airside hotel, like we see in some other airports is not in the plans, even not in the future plans. But BRU bought Sheraton ;)

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance and Oneworld under one roof?

Post by Atlantis » 19 Mar 2019, 22:12

convair wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 22:00
Very ambitious projects for once! Let's hope some of them materialize in the near future.
The whole Vision 2040 is very ambitious I would say. Finally an airport management who has the guts to reveal great plans for the future, with more terminals, piers, longer runways, more pax, etc etc

They had the guts to sit in front of the people who are living in the neighborhood of the airport to hear them during the debates. Finally actions and not only words

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