Brussels Airlines in 2019

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nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 29 Aug 2019, 12:59

I suppose this program "Reboot" will be an emanation of the direction of SN and written in the 4th quarter ... and that this program has nothing to do with what is expected of LH for the end of the 3rd quarter? Correct ?

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer » 29 Aug 2019, 17:52

Africa should be the main focus untill SN has a solid financial base. LH might give a hand by rerouting their Africa bound passengers through SN iso ET.
All SN flights to Africa are in code share with Lufthansa, since many years. If you go on LH website, connecting thru FRA and BRU are often, the first choice. So far, the routing is shortest via FRA and BRU than via ADD.

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by BrightCedars » 30 Aug 2019, 09:10

rwandan-flyer wrote:
29 Aug 2019, 17:52
Africa should be the main focus untill SN has a solid financial base. LH might give a hand by rerouting their Africa bound passengers through SN iso ET.
All SN flights to Africa are in code share with Lufthansa, since many years. If you go on LH website, connecting thru FRA and BRU are often, the first choice. So far, the routing is shortest via FRA and BRU than via ADD.

Image
One wonders why they don't offer SN's CDG-BRU flight directly. a 2 stop routing is not really enticing...

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Yuqu12 » 30 Aug 2019, 09:33

Was thinking exactly the same thing. They land at 9:40 at Brussels, so there is enough time left to transfer to the Kigali-flight...

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 30 Aug 2019, 10:31

Yuqu12 wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 09:33
Was thinking exactly the same thing. They land at 9:40 at Brussels, so there is enough time left to transfer to the Kigali-flight...
Living in Paris I do no want to get lost in Frankfurt to return to Brussels ...

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer » 30 Aug 2019, 10:59

Dark side of code share and interline.

The 1st LH flight from CDG to FRA, leaves CDG at 6h15, 1h15 earlier than the 1st SN flight from CDG to BRU. But the 1st SN flight from CDG to BRU provides 2hrs of connecting, which is good, while in deed via FRA, connecting time are quite short, if one flight is delayed, it can be hard to catch a flight.

Of course the goal of Lufthansa is by all means, that people use FRA, or at least fly with Lufthansa. But it's not only with Lufthansa. From Zurich, Air China operates an evening flight (departure at 20h). The big problem, is that when you want to book, a CDG-ZRH-Beijing flight on LX website, only the CDG-ZRH-PEK flight which leaves Zurich at 13h15 with Swiss is available. Sometimes you have a flight via GVA, with Air France and then Air China, but with a long night stop at GVA, which is discouraging. Air China and Swiss are in the same alliance

The only flight that could give you the chance to fly on Air China, from Zurich disappears when you want to book a CDG-ZRH-PEK. But this flight appears when you book a flight, only from CDG to ZRH :roll:

Lufthansa / Austrian / Swiss decided to end code share with Turkish Airlines, in 2013, for reasons cited above.

It's not a suprise that some airlines don't want to be in an Alliance or want to leave an alliance and selects only few airlines partners or create JV

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by BrightCedars » 30 Aug 2019, 11:40

Seeing that the BRU-CDG-BRU morning flights are all about connecting Paris and Africa via BRU, it would then make sense to add the LH, LX & OS codes on them if the group's intention is to funnel Africa traffic using SN. I understand you may want to be more careful with alliance partners, but here we're talking about the same group.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 30 Aug 2019, 15:54

And today Dakar is canceled: oups ! No document ???
Two days ago New York, three days ago Washington four days ago Washington...last week Accra and Dakar...or Toronto...
At a time when we would like to make Bru an airport of connections, at a time when we would like to strengthen the African network of SN, would not it be necessary first that the current network works and that we do not do not leave thousands of passengers in disinheritance ..... or else LH prepares his argument ...

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 31 Aug 2019, 09:24

I'm at the airport...today TWO winners or THREE...NEW YORK Canceled, OUAGADOUGOU ABIDJAN Canceled. The good news is that there are still passengers who are trying to fly ...Why continue to sell seats in flying devices, it might be better to become an electric scooter operator or sell yogurt ...It became an industrial disaster.

saratoga
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by saratoga » 31 Aug 2019, 10:51

This is not looking too well. The company i worked for was the same and ended up in a defunct airline. What is the reason(s)of all these lately cancellations??

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 31 Aug 2019, 11:53

saratoga wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 10:51
This is not looking too well. The company i worked for was the same and ended up in a defunct airline. What is the reason(s)of all these lately cancellations??
Resources are stretched to an absolute maximum, as soon as a little thing goes wrong you get a domino effect.

This makes you wonder how realistic the ‘reboot’ targets are, how do you want to reduce cost by 10%?
Have 9 A330s fly the programme even 10 can’t cope with?
Let people work 10% more for the same salary and make 10% redundant or reduce salaries by 10%?
10% fuel saving, really? A couple of % surely, but 10, impossible!
Traffic rights?
Handling? Swiss port won’t survive if they have to work for 10% less
...
As predicted: the dreamers about a big expansion got a nasty wake up call, but the reality is even more worrying as the reboot targets are simplistic and simply not achievable.
Reboot will never work, brace for impact!

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 31 Aug 2019, 13:29

Poiu wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 11:53
saratoga wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 10:51
This is not looking too well. The company i worked for was the same and ended up in a defunct airline. What is the reason(s)of all these lately cancellations??
Resources are stretched to an absolute maximum, as soon as a little thing goes wrong you get a domino effect.

This makes you wonder how realistic the ‘reboot’ targets are, how do you want to reduce cost by 10%?
Have 9 A330s fly the programme even 10 can’t cope with?
Let people work 10% more for the same salary and make 10% redundant or reduce salaries by 10%?
10% fuel saving, really? A couple of % surely, but 10, impossible!
Traffic rights?
Handling? Swiss port won’t survive if they have to work for 10% less
...
As predicted: the dreamers about a big expansion got a nasty wake up call, but the reality is even more worrying as the reboot targets are simplistic and simply not achievable.
Reboot will never work, brace for impact!
Cutting costs without growth is a highway to the end.

As far as I remember, nobody dreamed about a big expansion, but with only cutting costs, SN won't get out of problems.

I'd say with their current fleet and no extra equipment expected drop all long haul outside Africa, thus leaving the transatlantic market to their JV partners and focus where SN historically fared well: Africa. Fall back on their stronghold and from there start building a solid financial base.

Outsource the leisure-only destinations on weekdays to Eurowings and focus on business oriented destinations (with possibly some leisure-pax as well). Fly leisure in the weekend.

I know many people don't like the idea of SN trimming down but since LH has turned over the keys to Foerster and co, SN first have to strengthen their position and grow after.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 31 Aug 2019, 14:11

Conti764 wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 13:29
Poiu wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 11:53
saratoga wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 10:51
This is not looking too well. The company i worked for was the same and ended up in a defunct airline. What is the reason(s)of all these lately cancellations??
Resources are stretched to an absolute maximum, as soon as a little thing goes wrong you get a domino effect.

This makes you wonder how realistic the ‘reboot’ targets are, how do you want to reduce cost by 10%?
Have 9 A330s fly the programme even 10 can’t cope with?
Let people work 10% more for the same salary and make 10% redundant or reduce salaries by 10%?
10% fuel saving, really? A couple of % surely, but 10, impossible!
Traffic rights?
Handling? Swiss port won’t survive if they have to work for 10% less
...
As predicted: the dreamers about a big expansion got a nasty wake up call, but the reality is even more worrying as the reboot targets are simplistic and simply not achievable.
Reboot will never work, brace for impact!
Cutting costs without growth is a highway to the end.

As far as I remember, nobody dreamed about a big expansion, but with only cutting costs, SN won't get out of problems.

I'd say with their current fleet and no extra equipment expected drop all long haul outside Africa, thus leaving the transatlantic market to their JV partners and focus where SN historically fared well: Africa. Fall back on their stronghold and from there start building a solid financial base.

Outsource the leisure-only destinations on weekdays to Eurowings and focus on business oriented destinations (with possibly some leisure-pax as well). Fly leisure in the weekend.

I know many people don't like the idea of SN trimming down but since LH has turned over the keys to Foerster and co, SN first have to strengthen their position and grow after.
Exactly Conti764. Growth is still needed even when you want to cut costs. Even investments are needed. Better to have some red figures but to invest in planes and new destinations than only cut costs and doing nothing. On this way you lose market.

Like I said also before, take away the A330 from Canada and The States and deploy them on the African Market. Be more aggressive there like also others do. High time to open more direct destinations there

The US/Canada Market can be covered by the other partners.

And like I said also before, cut the Leisure business. Leave it to the companies who has such kind of model.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 31 Aug 2019, 17:21

Atlantis wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 14:11
Growth is still needed even when you want to cut costs. Even investments are needed. Better to have some red figures but to invest in planes and new destinations than only cut costs and doing nothing. On this way you lose market.
Growth, unsustainable growth to be more precise, is exactly what we had over the last 5 years. Every month people were celebrating the double digit growth. Those who warned against the misplaced optimism have been shot down in flames.
Growing even further with an upcoming recession would be an enormous gamble.
Look at what happened at WOW, Flybe, Air Berlin and other Norwegians!!!

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 31 Aug 2019, 17:34

Poiu wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 17:21
Atlantis wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 14:11
Growth is still needed even when you want to cut costs. Even investments are needed. Better to have some red figures but to invest in planes and new destinations than only cut costs and doing nothing. On this way you lose market.
Growth, unsustainable growth to be more precise, is exactly what we had over the last 5 years.
Growing even further with an upcoming recession would be an enormous gamble.
Look at what happened at WOW, Flybe, Air Berlin and other Norwegians!!!
Those are LCC which you talk about. Their model is completely different.

About SN we hardly can speak about growth. They only changed planes in more recent ones, replacements. Regarding destinations we're almost only those ones which they took over from Thomas Cook.

But they forgot to really grow. Competition was much faster. AF/KLM, Turkish Airlines, British Airways were all growing much more in Africa.

Standing still means that you will lose. Recession?? The economists are not so good in predicting recessions...

If you are scared or too defensive means that you also lose.

As main carrier at BRU with more or less 40% of market share is really low

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 31 Aug 2019, 18:13

We clearly have a different option, nice to have a civilised discussions with you though!
Time will tell, but I think consolidation is the way to go, concentrate on what is viable and try to grow again,slowly, once the recession has past.
Economists are not good at predicting, indeed, but there are many signs of an upcoming recession. I’ll put all my money on a recession kicking in before reboot generates 10% cost savings.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 31 Aug 2019, 23:11

Poiu wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 18:13
We clearly have a different option, nice to have a civilised discussions with you though!
Time will tell, but I think consolidation is the way to go, concentrate on what is viable and try to grow again,slowly, once the recession has past.
They should consolidate on their strength, Africa. Terminate all other l/h routes and build a solid financial base.

And try to attract more clients up front.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 01 Sep 2019, 09:37

Poiu wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 18:13
We clearly have a different option, nice to have a civilised discussions with you though!
Time will tell, but I think consolidation is the way to go, concentrate on what is viable and try to grow again,slowly, once the recession has past.
Economists are not good at predicting, indeed, but there are many signs of an upcoming recession. I’ll put all my money on a recession kicking in before reboot generates 10% cost savings.
No problem Poiu in having a different opinion and that we have a normal discussion about it. With bashing we are not reaching anything.

So I agree with you that our talk is very civilised.

Like I mentioned before. They should go back to basics, meaning, a strong European feeder network and a very strong Africa network

saratoga
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by saratoga » 01 Sep 2019, 10:06

Personally i foresee some european flights to be axed and somemore being outsourced to cityjet, perhaps Eurowings. And along with that......yes redundancies as well.

Ge203
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ge203 » 01 Sep 2019, 10:27

During the presentation a few months back, didn't TD or CS say that to cut cost, you'll never see an Eurowings aircraft based outside three or four hubs in Germany? So I don't think we'll see an Eurowings aircraft based in Brussels.

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