Brussels Airlines in 2019

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax » 09 Nov 2019, 19:33

CTBke wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 13:01
not sure how long OS will keep that service as they're also in Reboot now... little by little complimentary inflight service will dissapear while pushing flexibility and priority boarding forward (exactly like the LCC are offering already)
The most profitable airline group in Europe (IAG, in case someone wouldn't know) has buy-on-board catering on all of its intra-EU services (Vueling and Level obviously, as well as Aer Lingus which is the most comparable with SN, but also BA and IB) unless when you fly in Business on IB/BA/EI (in case of EI it's a complimentary snack/drink from their BOB menu, same as EW - except on the few flights served by the new A321LR's).
They don't make the difference on short haul Economy catering because it's not a major decisive factor in people's decision making.

I'm more than convinced that airlines like OS will not continue with free catering for all (on short haul) for long.

DeltaWiskey
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 18:33

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DeltaWiskey » 09 Nov 2019, 21:22

It's not only SN that makes some adjustments to its meal offering: https://onemileatatime.com/lufthansa-re ... l-service/

It's been previously said on this forum the LH, LX, OS and SN are streamlining their offer, among synergies and other benefits, this will also enable SN flights to be sold on the website of LH, LX and OS. Which in the end is a good thing.

AIRMARSHAL
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by AIRMARSHAL » 10 Nov 2019, 00:41

b720 wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 11:20
Service on business is also reduced dramatically..
That was the case already a few months back...
Problems is that business tickets within Europe can cost around EUR 1000.
I think that it is scandalous that one needs to pay for water after having spent almost 600 EUR for a 50 min flight
On flex&fast..
what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight

b720
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Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 » 10 Nov 2019, 07:40

AIRMARSHAL wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 00:41
b720 wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 11:20
Service on business is also reduced dramatically..
That was the case already a few months back...
Problems is that business tickets within Europe can cost around EUR 1000.
I think that it is scandalous that one needs to pay for water after having spent almost 600 EUR for a 50 min flight
On flex&fast..
what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight
It’s like going to a coffee house, paying paying EUR 15
For a regular (almost mediocre) espresso.. and still being charged 1 EUR for sugar and another for milk!
Not a good feeling! It is all about the principle..

nordikcam
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 10 Nov 2019, 10:09

b720 wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 07:40
AIRMARSHAL wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 00:41
b720 wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 11:20
Service on business is also reduced dramatically..
That was the case already a few months back...
Problems is that business tickets within Europe can cost around EUR 1000.
I think that it is scandalous that one needs to pay for water after having spent almost 600 EUR for a 50 min flight
On flex&fast..
what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight
It’s like going to a coffee house, paying paying EUR 15
For a regular (almost mediocre) espresso.. and still being charged 1 EUR for sugar and another for milk!
Not a good feeling! It is all about the principle..
In fact nothing to do with the recent BRU MAD with KLM that I made ... a water and a waffle on AMS and a small bottle of wine and a dish of cold pasta but good on MAD ... all for free in eco class. In short ... perfect!

b720
Posts: 856
Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 » 10 Nov 2019, 10:56

nordikcam wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 10:09
b720 wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 07:40
AIRMARSHAL wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 00:41


what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight
It’s like going to a coffee house, paying paying EUR 15
For a regular (almost mediocre) espresso.. and still being charged 1 EUR for sugar and another for milk!
Not a good feeling! It is all about the principle..
In fact nothing to do with the recent BRU MAD with KLM that I made ... a water and a waffle on AMS and a small bottle of wine and a dish of cold pasta but good on MAD ... all for free in eco class. In short ... perfect!
And KLM makes money.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by cathay belgium » 10 Nov 2019, 11:53

Hi,

Just think of ... they decide that Belgium is the perfect symbiose of French and dutch speakers.. and AF/KLM set up a small child of them here ,let's call it Air Brussel....
A bunch of embraers and B737 ... And a morning A333 for a nice connection in AMS...
Or Emirates , Norwegian to JFK-BOS...

Guess BRU has a lot of opportunities to grow, but maybe we are all wrong as nothing of all this is happening ...
Why ?
LH let SN shrink.. we see a new Wizzair landing in BRU after Ryanair... Next Norwegian ? Why aren't they here yet ? Easy expands Berlin ,...
SN is opening the gap ... to give more away...
Reducing to make progress is just a false fantasy ...
If you want to compete with others you don't turn your back home ....
And all this news don't bring much convidence to the customer... Together with reducing the service level...
Don't see much growth in the future...

CXB
New types flown : A223,AN24,AW139,B737MAX8,B763nonER,DH Dragonrapide,EMB110 Bandeirante, Shorts360,Autogire MTOsport2010

b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 » 10 Nov 2019, 12:37

cathay belgium wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 11:53
Hi,

Just think of ... they decide that Belgium is the perfect symbiose of French and dutch speakers.. and AF/KLM set up a small child of them here ,let's call it Air Brussel....
A bunch of embraers and B737 ... And a morning A333 for a nice connection in AMS...
Or Emirates , Norwegian to JFK-BOS...

Guess BRU has a lot of opportunities to grow, but maybe we are all wrong as nothing of all this is happening ...
Why ?
LH let SN shrink.. we see a new Wizzair landing in BRU after Ryanair... Next Norwegian ? Why aren't they here yet ? Easy expands Berlin ,...
SN is opening the gap ... to give more away...
Reducing to make progress is just a false fantasy ...
If you want to compete with others you don't turn your back home ....
And all this news don't bring much convidence to the customer... Together with reducing the service level...
Don't see much growth in the future...

CXB
I think that the biggest issue here is the extremely high cost of labour in Belgium. Specifically taxes and social contributions by the employer.

nordikcam
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 10 Nov 2019, 13:05

Still no news on the future of the long haul EW operated by aircraft registered in Belgium?

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Airbus330lover » 10 Nov 2019, 14:38

cathay belgium wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 11:53
Hi,

Just think of ... they decide that Belgium is the perfect symbiose of French and dutch speakers.. and AF/KLM set up a small child of them here ,let's call it Air Brussel....
A bunch of embraers and B737 ... And a morning A333 for a nice connection in AMS...
Or Emirates , Norwegian to JFK-BOS...

Guess BRU has a lot of opportunities to grow, but maybe we are all wrong as nothing of all this is happening ...
Why ?
LH let SN shrink.. we see a new Wizzair landing in BRU after Ryanair... Next Norwegian ? Why aren't they here yet ? Easy expands Berlin ,...
SN is opening the gap ... to give more away...
Reducing to make progress is just a false fantasy ...
If you want to compete with others you don't turn your back home ....
And all this news don't bring much convidence to the customer... Together with reducing the service level...
Don't see much growth in the future...

CXB
you have a point ;)

DeltaWiskey
Posts: 564
Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 18:33

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DeltaWiskey » 10 Nov 2019, 22:50

nordikcam wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 13:05
Still no news on the future of the long haul EW operated by aircraft registered in Belgium?
As from 1 January, LH will sell the flights, EW will concentrate on EU short haul. (This is already known for a long time.)
For SN, the operator of the flights, nothing will change.

Ansett
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Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ansett » 11 Nov 2019, 17:06

Cathay Belgium definitely has a point.
However, I don't think AF/KL would be interested in setting up another hub at BRU. Perhaps KL if they really cannot grow anymore at AMS (perhaps !).
If ever there is a Brexit, I'd rather see BA set up a (small) hub at BRU.

As for the rest, reducing service is never the best option. One must give in order to receive. It's a give-and-take process. You need to know how to give to get.
The closer you look like a LCC, the more likely it is you will loose customers to LCCs.

Generosity usually pays. If you're clever, even if you have to make savings, you will at least offer water, coffee and tea and a biscuit (speculoos) for free. In addition, you can still sell food and other drinks.
I think it is or was the SAS concept.

As to costs of operating an airline in Belgium, costs in general are also very high in the Nordic countries and in Switzerland. Despite the high-cost in CH, LX manages to make a profit. Because LH is pampering them (with brand new aircraft, for instance) ?

As to the high cost of Business class tickets in Europe, my opinion fwiw is that airlines which charge huge fares for these C tickets, don't want the "hassle" (?) of having to deal with a few C class pax.
Coming back to LX, they often have "cheap" or "cheaper" C class tickets which come with restrictions.
The LX business model must be pretty good, given their financial performance.

I don't want to sound like a prophet of doom, but if ever there is (and it seems there will be) some kind of ecotax or tax on kerosene, many weak airlines will disappear. FR can afford the extra taxes, they will just have less dividends for their shareholders.

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by BrightCedars » 12 Nov 2019, 13:29

If you're going to keep a business class on your planes then it makes sense to reserver some bundled perks to differentiate that offering. Moving away from EW model and closer to LH model could also mean simplifying the tarif classes vis-à-vis the cabin classes. Maybe business will become a bit more affordable. Now of course there's the problem of employer policies that prevent the use of business in most cases when flying within Europe.

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HQ_BRU_Lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by HQ_BRU_Lover » 12 Nov 2019, 19:27

Is SN still flying to TLV? Security doesn't seem too guaranteed...

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter » 13 Nov 2019, 02:02

Knack has it right:

Despite its shamefully high unemployment rates, the Brussels Region prefers (night) rest for its population over an expanding Zaventem.

Charleroi cannot follow intercontinental for the time being. Few transfer passengers opt for an airport that does not offer European connections after an intercontinental flight. But it doesn't have to stay that way. The slope in Brussels South is being extended.

It is 'self-interest first' in Belgian aviation. This policy therefore reflects the political system in this country, which is only connected to a rattling and rattling frame.

https://trends.knack.be/economie/bedrij ... 31123.html

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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by cathay belgium » 13 Nov 2019, 07:01

Hi,

Well you can say that the government don't need to help a German airline now...
It will invest in belgian airport , moving flights to Charleroi to release stress is a good idea..
The Netherlands expands Lelystad also...
You can read this policy in this such way in a belgian sense instead of a defunct walloon flemish disease..
It's all a matter of interpretation no ?

CXB
New types flown : A223,AN24,AW139,B737MAX8,B763nonER,DH Dragonrapide,EMB110 Bandeirante, Shorts360,Autogire MTOsport2010

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 13 Nov 2019, 07:50

Jetter wrote:
13 Nov 2019, 02:02
Knack has it right:

Despite its shamefully high unemployment rates, the Brussels Region prefers (night) rest for its population over an expanding Zaventem.

Charleroi cannot follow intercontinental for the time being. Few transfer passengers opt for an airport that does not offer European connections after an intercontinental flight. But it doesn't have to stay that way. The slope in Brussels South is being extended.

It is 'self-interest first' in Belgian aviation. This policy therefore reflects the political system in this country, which is only connected to a rattling and rattling frame.

https://trends.knack.be/economie/bedrij ... 31123.html
Yes Brussels prefers to protect the night rest of there citizens there is nothing crazy about that it's not the first city to refuse night flights.

The problem here is that Flanders accepts night flights but for an airport with a big population density around it,it should be logical to stop night flights.

This small article is really not a quality analysis "kort door de bocht " that's what they call a article like that in Dutch.

Brussels Airlines don't suffer from the night ban all the country is supporting Brussels Airlines it is Di Ripo who tried to help Brussels airlines but the EU refused!!!!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Duke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Duke » 13 Nov 2019, 11:19

HQ_BRU_Lover wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 19:27
Is SN still flying to TLV? Security doesn't seem too guaranteed...
Yes, SN still flies to TLV, even mostly twice a day... (although the second flight is a "night flight", leaving Brussels at 9.30 pm and arriving in TLV at around 2 am...)

I flew to TLV last month, and was surprised to see that security was not different from any other flight.. so, no extra questions about the luggage, etc.. like it used to be a few years ago...
So, I don't mean that security is not good, but that there is no (noticeable) extra security for the TLV flgith...
When leaving TLV, security at the airport is a bit more strict, and quite some questions are asked before one is allowed to go to the check-in counters...
On the whole, I did have a safe feeling...

I flew business (for the first time with SN). I must admit I was rather disappointed. Business uses the first 3 or 4 rows in the plane, and only a cardboard above the seat indicates where Business ends en Flex and Fast starts...
Nothing else, no different seats, not even a curtain dividing the parts of the plane, so that all economy passengers just freely walk around the whole plane, e.g; to use the front lavatory. Only the middle seat is not sold, but no noticeable more legroom or other space, and not really a quiet environment.
The crew is very friendly, but doesn't offer too much extra. Yes, there is a free meal (but on the day flight, leaving Brussels at 9.30 am and arriving in TLV at 3 pm, it is standard only beakfast...). Everything else can be ordered for free from the menu, but is not offered as standard.
So, what are then the advantages of flying Business? Quicker check-in, using the fast lane for security, and priority luggage delivery at the belt... and, the use of the lounges...
I'm not sure a real business man (I'm only a tourist flying business "by accident"...because the flight was fully booked) will pay that much extra for what is offered by SN.
SN must offer a real business class product, with decent seating in a separate cabin, even on European flights, and certainly on the TLV flgith, which takes 4.30 hours...

Both ways, the flight was 100% full... so there seems to be a market for TLV, and even an A321 would be justified on that route.. I don't know about yields on that route, but I guess this must certainly be a profitable flight...

Btw, in the in-flight magazine, I was surprised to discover that SN doesn't fly to Sofia, nor to Dublin... When SN wants to use its European network as a feeder for the AFI flights, it should at least have connections to every European capital...

Regards,

Duke

flo82b
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by flo82b » 13 Nov 2019, 11:30

Hi,

anybody here on the forum having a spare Brussels Airlines Lounge Voucher via M&M Select Benefit or from somewhere else. Travelling in a small group and missing lounge access for one person on a M&M airline (Not SN) and unable to get any information from Brussels Airlines or Miles & More if you can just get paid access for that extra person. Happy to pay for the voucher!

Florian

theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by theeuropean » 13 Nov 2019, 11:53

Most EU airlines don't have 'extra'security to TLV it is, it is mainly EL AL. They wanted to fly to CPH but didn't start the route as the DK government refused to grant the Israeli's their own security staff for CPH airport.

I don't think there is that much demand to Africa and Dublin. Also DUB I assume would not be profitable with FR and EI on the route with low prices.
SN does not fly to many capitals. It also doesn't have a morning rotation to Madrid which crazy.

Speaking of biz class - there are rumors A3 will put in IFE in it's new A320 aircraft, so another airline that ups its game in Europe if they do it.

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