Brussels Airlines in 2019

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 24 Jun 2019, 21:32

On a different topic (sorry to interfere), ASL Airlines France may be acquired by Bansard (France) in the near future as talks are in progress. As a reminder, ASL France was operating a daily flight between BRU and CDG for Brussels Airlines.
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Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boavida » 24 Jun 2019, 21:34

On a side note: if SN is to (re)become a more 'classic' network carrier (aligned with LH, LX) I think it should/must redesign its graphic identity. If you look at the current website with all the flashy colours it looks and feels low-cost. They should upgrade to a more serious/business style graphic identity, with -why not- an updated livery ?

Never liked this 'cloud' design I must say... looks childish.

Image

Obviously this is all of a second degree importance and should be part of the overall new strategy plan we can expect later this year. Finally times are exciting (in a positive way) again for Belgian aviation.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Sabena320 » 24 Jun 2019, 21:38

sn26567 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:32
As a reminder, ASL France is operating a daily flight between BRU and CDG for Brussels Airlines.
The contract with them has been terminated already for quite a long time, SN operates all its CDG flights with own Airbus aircraft.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 24 Jun 2019, 21:46

for Belgian aviation.
sigh

for commercial air transport in Belgium

Recreational aviation is not doing good at all, these days, in Belgium; and certainly not exciting, with several fatal accidents.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ansett » 24 Jun 2019, 22:19

sn26567 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:27
Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:19
Imho, LH/CS still continues to talk nonsense when they say that only profitable airlines receive new equipment.
Bullshit. EW is far from profitable, but its oldest A320s will be replaced by brand-new A320neos. It's printed in today's presentations to financial analysts.
There is no need to be rude !

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 24 Jun 2019, 22:21

Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 22:19
sn26567 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:27
Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:19
Imho, LH/CS still continues to talk nonsense when they say that only profitable airlines receive new equipment.
Bullshit. EW is far from profitable, but its oldest A320s will be replaced by brand-new A320neos. It's printed in today's presentations to financial analysts.
There is no need to be rude !
Not towards you, dear Ansett, but about the claims of LH/CS. ;)
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ansett » 24 Jun 2019, 22:28

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

If LH/CS/CF say that SN still has many efforts to make, it would make sense that some of the efforts be made not only by SN (employees ?), but that LH as owner of SN takes part in theses efforts (young fleet, sorry for the broken record, Poiu ;) )

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 24 Jun 2019, 22:37

Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 22:28
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

If LH/CS/CF say that SN still has many efforts to make, it would make sense that some of the efforts be made not only by SN (employees ?), but that LH as owner of SN takes part in theses efforts (young fleet, sorry for the broken record, Poiu ;) )
Well, at least they are remaining loyal to this position since OS - which imo is in more dire need of new equipment than SN - isn't getting new planes either. Unless some of the B787's are earmarked for them.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 24 Jun 2019, 22:40

Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:19
1. With this decision, LH/CS avoid strikes at SN during the summer months, strikes which would have pulled the figures even more into the red.
2. I presume we all agree that this decision makes sense and that CF probably did a good job, but did she really do better than Bernard Gustin and Jan De Raeymaeker who got sacked ?
Duke wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:27
Jetter wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:06
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.
Maybe more efficient planes are exactly what SN needs to become a profitable network airline....

Regards,

Duke
Imho, LH/CS still continues to talk nonsense when they say that only profitable arilines receive new equipment. The turn around plan should be about replacing at least 50 % of SN's fleet with brand new aircraft in a first stage.

It would be interesting to know how many savings, how many cost reductions a fleet of very young and factory new aircraft would bring. That's something worth calculating.

Now it is : make a profit with old material which cost more in fuel, maintenance and a number of other costs ! Seems difficult to me given the current wage and working conditions at SN, cutting employees costs (by laying off how many employees ?) will not do the trick. And reducing the wages and increase productibity (= do the same work with less people) will not be accepted. At least, I doubt it.

So, Duke is perfectly right in saying that "more efficient planes are exactly what SN needs to become a profitable network airline".

I partially agree with Boavida when he says "more planes to increase frequencies and destinations". More planes if they are at least very young planes ; increasing frequencies, yes, to business destinations for instance, one example, by adding an evening flight to NYC ; more destinations, yes, basically to Africa, I presume, but what about India in the wake of 9W's demise and perhaps in a not to distant future to Boston).

External factors also have an impact on an airline's profitability. If the oil price goes up, it will be felt more by an airline like SN with planes which burn more fuel than by airlines like LH/LX that have planes that burn a lot less fuel. It is a vicious circle for airlines with a high average fleet age.

In conclusion, LH/CS have come back with one foot on the ground. They will be with both feet on the ground when they no longer say that only profitable airlines will get new aircraft.
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the new(er) A330's are only starting to enter the fleet, no? They'll fly more efficiently to Africa and can take more lucrative cargo than before. So, the roll over with younger birds should already produce better results for SN.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ansett » 24 Jun 2019, 23:31

But honestly, about how many aircraft on a total of ? are you talking ?
You are right in saying SN is getting younger, or should we say "less old" aircraft, we are still far away of the factory new aircraft which LH/LX get and EW will get.
Let's be patient ? :roll:
With an incompetent CEO and his ego, who sacks those who don't agree with him ?
(now, I'm being rude or just telling the truth ?)

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Av24.be » 24 Jun 2019, 23:37

Before thinking about new aircraft and new destinations, Christina Foerster said that the priority lies into being profitable as soon as possible. And in my humble opinion, that's very reasonable.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 24 Jun 2019, 23:40

Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 23:31
But honestly, about how many aircraft on a total of ? are you talking ?
You are right in saying SN is getting younger, or should we say "less old" aircraft, we are still far away of the factory new aircraft which LH/LX get and EW will get.
Let's be patient ? :roll:
With an incompetent CEO and his ego, who sacks those who don't agree with him ?
(now, I'm being rude or just telling the truth ?)
All the old A330's are leaving and will be replaced.

I don't know the average age of he A320-fleet.

Cost savings can be various. Maybe scale back the capacity growth under Gustin? Lesser flights on lesser planes to lesser destinations which prove of importance to SN's profitable long haul operations, handing over the more ptp and leisure destinations to EW?

Focus more on Africa with more flights to more destinations? After all, Africa is SN's milking cow.

The younger ex-SQ and ex-CX birds are more efficient and come at a higher MTOW resulting in burnig less fuel with more valuable cargo, so a win/win.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DeltaWiskey » 25 Jun 2019, 00:18

sn26567 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 12:32
jan_olieslagers wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 12:23
Would this wise decision not be partly due to the efforts and good work of the German CEO Christina Foerster?
Partly, perhaps. But I'm sure the powerful influencers at luchtz^h^h^h^h^h aviation24.be contributed at least as much!
Thanks! If you mean this article:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... f-its-ceo/

I can agree with you. I had a meeting with the Vice President Communication of Brussels Airlines shortly after writing the article, and I can tell you that she listened with attention. She is German and she came to Brussels Airlines from Lufthansa.
I think your arrogance and self-glorification is very misplaced here. Do you really think that you or aviation24 has any influence on the decisions taken by the Board of a 40 billion airline group?!

Although I welcome the news of today, this forum has reached a new low. As someone said in another topic, this is exactly why the insiders stop contributing.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 25 Jun 2019, 00:30

DeltaWiskey wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 00:18
sn26567 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 12:32
jan_olieslagers wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 12:23


Partly, perhaps. But I'm sure the powerful influencers at luchtz^h^h^h^h^h aviation24.be contributed at least as much!
Thanks! If you mean this article:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... f-its-ceo/

I can agree with you. I had a meeting with the Vice President Communication of Brussels Airlines shortly after writing the article, and I can tell you that she listened with attention. She is German and she came to Brussels Airlines from Lufthansa.
I think your arrogance and self-glorification is very misplaced here. Do you really think that you or aviation24 has any influence on the decisions taken by the Board of a 40 billion airline group?!

Although I welcome the news of today, this forum has reached a new low. As someone said in another topic, this is exactly why the insiders stop contributing.
Sometimes I don't understand the anger and aggression on this forum he is not glorifying him self he is just happy about what happened today.

But some discussion here and sure his article where very interesting to understand the situation and maybe some are reading and taking some notes or ideas why not!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 25 Jun 2019, 00:36

Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 22:28

If LH/CS/CF say that SN still has many efforts to make, it would make sense that some of the efforts be made not only by SN (employees ?), but that LH as owner of SN takes part in theses efforts (young fleet, sorry for the broken record, Poiu ;) )
Well, I have been beating the wrong (EW) drum quite a lot and quite loud lately....
I didn’t see this one coming, my analyses have been embarrassingly wrong!
The only thing I got correct is that cutting costs is a necessary and urgent matter.
All the euphoric comments on here are a bit premature though. In the past, Brussels Airlines was not viable as a stand-alone in the LH group, why would that have changed? The real intentions will only become clear once the turnaround plan will be announced.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 25 Jun 2019, 07:50

Poiu wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 00:36
Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 22:28

If LH/CS/CF say that SN still has many efforts to make, it would make sense that some of the efforts be made not only by SN (employees ?), but that LH as owner of SN takes part in theses efforts (young fleet, sorry for the broken record, Poiu ;) )
Well, I have been beating the wrong (EW) drum quite a lot and quite loud lately....
I didn’t see this one coming, my analyses have been embarrassingly wrong!
The only thing I got correct is that cutting costs is a necessary and urgent matter.
All the euphoric comments on here are a bit premature though. In the past, Brussels Airlines was not viable as a stand-alone in the LH group, why would that have changed? The real intentions will only become clear once the turnaround plan will be announced.
On the other hand, SN never was a true stand alone cartier within the LH group. For years, LH only held a minority stake and, accept for a survival loan, didn't interfere much in SN's business. When SN became fully owned, it immediately got placed under EW-umbrella.

It remains to be seen how CF and her team want to turn around SN. One thing that comes to mind is the ending of former TCB-routes and moving them to EW, expanding again in Africa, the real milk cow of SN. I don't think we have to expect any other longhaul development outside Africa in the foreseeable future.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Matt » 25 Jun 2019, 08:21

Conti764 wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 07:50
Poiu wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 00:36
Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 22:28

If LH/CS/CF say that SN still has many efforts to make, it would make sense that some of the efforts be made not only by SN (employees ?), but that LH as owner of SN takes part in theses efforts (young fleet, sorry for the broken record, Poiu ;) )
Well, I have been beating the wrong (EW) drum quite a lot and quite loud lately....
I didn’t see this one coming, my analyses have been embarrassingly wrong!
The only thing I got correct is that cutting costs is a necessary and urgent matter.
All the euphoric comments on here are a bit premature though. In the past, Brussels Airlines was not viable as a stand-alone in the LH group, why would that have changed? The real intentions will only become clear once the turnaround plan will be announced.
On the other hand, SN never was a true stand alone cartier within the LH group. For years, LH only held a minority stake and, accept for a survival loan, didn't interfere much in SN's business. When SN became fully owned, it immediately got placed under EW-umbrella.

It remains to be seen how CF and her team want to turn around SN. One thing that comes to mind is the ending of former TCB-routes and moving them to EW, expanding again in Africa, the real milk cow of SN. I don't think we have to expect any other longhaul development outside Africa in the foreseeable future.
I agree we dont have to expect any longhaul development in the near future ( except maybe new routes to Windhoek ( a man can dream ), CPT and JNB or other africa destinations) JNB might need an A340 to be profitable tough...

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 25 Jun 2019, 08:42

This is finally good news.

But to tackle some of the rumors here. There will be no transfer of holiday flights or other kind of flights from SN to EW. As you could read clearly, the integration of SN in EW stopped and SN will be a member of the group like OS, LX, not on the same level, but at least not as a LCC.

This means that EW has to do it on their own with their own German AOC. SN is doing further what it is doing now, serving Europe, Africa and The States.

We will see in three months what the real plan for SN will be.

But at least good news and this is also a big relief for BRU. This means also that new future carriers can continue in negotiating to start up ops to BRU and having a possible codeshare with SN as a normal network carrier.

I cannot belief if they would have other plans with SN than to make it a full and respectful network carrier. CS had to set a step back for his wonderful baby EW. Now it seems that it was not working even he had so many worldwide examples that it is not working. Good that they took out SN from that project.

This hybrid model of SN which was created by the former management of SN was working very well. Now, but they will never say this, they have to admit it (LH - CS). Under the former management they also made profit, small but profit is profit and there was also a good balance between management of SN and all the employees.
We could read here too if it would not be a good idea to bring Bernard Gustin back. What a proposal is that?! Would you like to be seen as second choice??? First the door as being seen as difficult and to bring back after and saying that it was so good in that time? Come on

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Passenger » 25 Jun 2019, 10:00

Thank you, Atlantis, for bringing realism back to this topic / this forum. However, after yesterday’s trumendous joy “no integration into Eurowings”, there will be little time for SN to celebrate. At the contrary: the remark “Brussels Airlines: turnaround plan in the third quarter of 2019” suggests that the result from 2018 isn’t good. Maybe there was an operational profit, maybe even a nett profit. But LH’s remarks suggest that there still is a high cumulated loss. Let's not forget that the 2018 strike(s) by the cockpit crew have a price tag. Same for the result of 1Q2019, with the disruption by Skeyes. Airlines indeed have to take care of their passengers. On a sidenote: TUI Belgium has booked 2,6M for cost in 2018 due to EU261/2004. And most of that are costs, not the pure indemnity 150-600.

Christina Foerster told De Tijd: we can’t rely anymore on our long haul: we also need to make money on short haul. Repeat: there won't be time to celebrate the end of the integration into EW.

Relevant articles:

https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/eng ... 4c3fbd9fef

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... eurowings/

https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... 39497.html

https://trends.knack.be/economie/bedrij ... 80309.html

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 25 Jun 2019, 11:10

Matt wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 08:21
Conti764 wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 07:50
Poiu wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 00:36


Well, I have been beating the wrong (EW) drum quite a lot and quite loud lately....
I didn’t see this one coming, my analyses have been embarrassingly wrong!
The only thing I got correct is that cutting costs is a necessary and urgent matter.
All the euphoric comments on here are a bit premature though. In the past, Brussels Airlines was not viable as a stand-alone in the LH group, why would that have changed? The real intentions will only become clear once the turnaround plan will be announced.
On the other hand, SN never was a true stand alone cartier within the LH group. For years, LH only held a minority stake and, accept for a survival loan, didn't interfere much in SN's business. When SN became fully owned, it immediately got placed under EW-umbrella.

It remains to be seen how CF and her team want to turn around SN. One thing that comes to mind is the ending of former TCB-routes and moving them to EW, expanding again in Africa, the real milk cow of SN. I don't think we have to expect any other longhaul development outside Africa in the foreseeable future.
I agree we dont have to expect any longhaul development in the near future ( except maybe new routes to Windhoek ( a man can dream ), CPT and JNB or other africa destinations) JNB might need an A340 to be profitable tough...
JNB or CPT is a little overly optimistic. For growth to Africa I'd rather look to upgrading current destinations and maybe reinstall former, terminated destinations.

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