Brussels Airlines in 2019

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theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by theeuropean » 24 Jun 2019, 16:47

Not fantastic, but if it was the strong part of the entire EW mess, it is good they split. As CF said "Happily single, but time to go to the gym." My feeling is to make profits with what they have now, and growth will come later (be that new routes, more aircraft, etc...).

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU » 24 Jun 2019, 17:08

convair wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 15:51
But SN needs to keep a basic short-haul network focussed on business pax in order to feed its l/h flights and to keep a certain idendity on the market, and on short-trips tourism pax.
How does "business pax" match with "to feed its l/h flights"? Okay, for l/h passengers living around BRU or BRU as final destination, SN is easy as they offer a direct flight. But for passengers elsewhere, does it matter to them whether they fly SN to BRU and connect to l/h, or fly LH (or EW) to MUC/FRA and connect that way to the l/h?
Which l/h flights by SN rely most on connecting passengers?

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 24 Jun 2019, 17:22

SkyTourist wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 13:18
When going through the Capital Markets Day presentations (https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... ations.pdf, no visual sign of Brussels, so anything is still possible ...
Indeed: Brussels Airlines' strategy will be defined in Q3
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 24 Jun 2019, 17:24

Jetter wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 15:26
SkyTourist wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 13:18
When going through the Capital Markets Day presentations (https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... ations.pdf, no visual sign of Brussels, so anything is still possible ...
Indeed. SN/BRU is remarkably absent from the whole presentation. These slides are from the presentation of the LH-group as a whole (thus not just network-airlines):

Image

Image

Image

The new plan for EW/SN can be good or bad news: being recognized as a network carrier just as OS or moving shorthaul to EW, USA to UA and Africa to other hubs.

If there ever was a time when the Belgian government has to show it supports aviation and the unions/staff have to show they want SN to be competitive it is now. The new strategy for SN will be presented in Q3 so is in the making.
Let's not forget that for the moment, SN is still under EW umbrella and nothing has changed yet. This presentation is about the current situation and the revised plans for SN are for the future. I expect an SN tail next to LH, LX and OS for next year ;)

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 24 Jun 2019, 17:26

PttU wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 17:08
convair wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 15:51
But SN needs to keep a basic short-haul network focussed on business pax in order to feed its l/h flights and to keep a certain idendity on the market, and on short-trips tourism pax.
How does "business pax" match with "to feed its l/h flights"? Okay, for l/h passengers living around BRU or BRU as final destination, SN is easy as they offer a direct flight. But for passengers elsewhere, does it matter to them whether they fly SN to BRU and connect to l/h, or fly LH (or EW) to MUC/FRA and connect that way to the l/h?
Which l/h flights by SN rely most on connecting passengers?
Africa seems the obvious answer.

AA for example maintained a pretty large BRU ops for the sole reason of SN offering onwards connections to Africa.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boavida » 24 Jun 2019, 18:27

This is a GREAT DAY.

I was really hoping for this scenario. Turning SN into Eurowings didn't make ANY sense. Glad they realised this in the end. Better late than never 8-)

In this interview in De Tijd Christina Foerster says the brand Brussels Airlines is 'no longer under discussion'.

Go Brussels Airlines! 🇧🇪

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 24 Jun 2019, 18:41

Maybe time to bring back Bernard Gustin? It's his idea that prevails! He was sacked because he refused the integration into Eurowings.
André
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travellover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by travellover » 24 Jun 2019, 18:42

What a bright day.
Welcome back to be a complete network airlines, Brussels Airlines :) .
Last edited by travellover on 24 Jun 2019, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers

Duke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Duke » 24 Jun 2019, 18:47

Maybe we can start dreaming about A330-neo's?
And A220's for the European routes, to replace the older A319's?
Let's keep fingers crossed!

Regards,

Duke

sterling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sterling » 24 Jun 2019, 18:58

it is interesting to see that LH ignored first the other airlines such as Delta's failed approach with SONG, that a legacy carrier and a low-cost carrier under one roof doesn't really work. The mentality of a low cost carrier is hard to unify with legacy carrier.
It is more difficult that legacy carrier management is running the show on a low-carrier... it just doesn't work.

I suspect soon that Eurowings will be "split" off from LH group as earliest as 2020 (if the numbers remain rubbish).

Caster Spohr is getting a abrupt reality check.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter » 24 Jun 2019, 19:06

Duke wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 18:47
Maybe we can start dreaming about A330-neo's?
And A220's for the European routes, to replace the older A319's?
Let's keep fingers crossed!
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.

lucas
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lucas » 24 Jun 2019, 19:20

Jetter wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:06
Duke wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 18:47
Maybe we can start dreaming about A330-neo's?
And A220's for the European routes, to replace the older A319's?
Let's keep fingers crossed!
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.
Wasn't Lufthansa group buying Dreaminers, although they didn't know yet for which airline they would be. My guess is that Swiss and/or Austrian and/or Lufthansa are getting these to replace older a330s, which then would go to Brussels Airlines.

Duke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Duke » 24 Jun 2019, 19:27

Jetter wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:06
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.
Maybe more efficient planes are exactly what SN needs to become a profitable network airline....

Regards,

Duke

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 24 Jun 2019, 19:39

Jetter wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:06
Duke wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 18:47
Maybe we can start dreaming about A330-neo's?
And A220's for the European routes, to replace the older A319's?
Let's keep fingers crossed!
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.
I can understand that. Let's not go back to the Sabena carelessness years. Make SN profitable first, confirm for a few year with only VERY moderate expansion, then, but only then, start thinking about new aircraft, but only if their economics are better than those of older ones. For most pax, including myself, a refurbished 10 years old plane is as good as a brand new one.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boavida » 24 Jun 2019, 20:35

Duke wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:27
Jetter wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:06
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.
Maybe more efficient planes are exactly what SN needs to become a profitable network airline....

Regards,

Duke
Or maybe above all more planes to increase frequencies and destinations ?

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 24 Jun 2019, 21:04

above all more planes
Yes, that is my understanding too. If SN really re-assumes its original self of a long-haul carrier, with an emphasis on central Africa (plus a solid feeder network to/from BRU), that will make it a high-yield carrier; so that cost and cost-efficiency, while still important, are not the prime concern; more important are and will be quality of service and reliability. Aircraft need not be flashy, but they must be dependable and comfortable. Needless to say nobody cares about the registration being OO- or D- or 2- or whatever, still less whether Asterix or Tarzan or Manneken Pis are pictured on the fuselage :mrgreen:

FLYAIR10
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by FLYAIR10 » 24 Jun 2019, 21:16

by Boavida » 24 Jun 2019, 20:35
Duke wrote: ↑
24 Jun 2019, 19:27
Jetter wrote: ↑
24 Jun 2019, 19:06
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.
Maybe more efficient planes are exactly what SN needs to become a profitable network airline....

Regards,

Duke
Or maybe above all more planes to increase frequencies and destinations ?
If Eurowings is to stop Long Haul and focus on intra Germany routes in the first place, the 4 Belgium registered SN operated planes and their crews in DUS will become available for SN, or did I miss something?

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ansett » 24 Jun 2019, 21:19

1. With this decision, LH/CS avoid strikes at SN during the summer months, strikes which would have pulled the figures even more into the red.
2. I presume we all agree that this decision makes sense and that CF probably did a good job, but did she really do better than Bernard Gustin and Jan De Raeymaeker who got sacked ?
Duke wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:27
Jetter wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 19:06
Those aren’t available second hand. LH didn’t retract that only profitable airlines receive new equipment. That applies to ‘network airlines’ as well. OS getting second hand airplanes, while LX and LH receive new ones.
Maybe more efficient planes are exactly what SN needs to become a profitable network airline....

Regards,

Duke
Imho, LH/CS still continues to talk nonsense when they say that only profitable arilines receive new equipment. The turn around plan should be about replacing at least 50 % of SN's fleet with brand new aircraft in a first stage.

It would be interesting to know how many savings, how many cost reductions a fleet of very young and factory new aircraft would bring. That's something worth calculating.

Now it is : make a profit with old material which cost more in fuel, maintenance and a number of other costs ! Seems difficult to me given the current wage and working conditions at SN, cutting employees costs (by laying off how many employees ?) will not do the trick. And reducing the wages and increase productibity (= do the same work with less people) will not be accepted. At least, I doubt it.

So, Duke is perfectly right in saying that "more efficient planes are exactly what SN needs to become a profitable network airline".

I partially agree with Boavida when he says "more planes to increase frequencies and destinations". More planes if they are at least very young planes ; increasing frequencies, yes, to business destinations for instance, one example, by adding an evening flight to NYC ; more destinations, yes, basically to Africa, I presume, but what about India in the wake of 9W's demise and perhaps in a not to distant future to Boston).

External factors also have an impact on an airline's profitability. If the oil price goes up, it will be felt more by an airline like SN with planes which burn more fuel than by airlines like LH/LX that have planes that burn a lot less fuel. It is a vicious circle for airlines with a high average fleet age.

In conclusion, LH/CS have come back with one foot on the ground. They will be with both feet on the ground when they no longer say that only profitable airlines will get new aircraft.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 24 Jun 2019, 21:21

FLYAIR10 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:16

If Eurowings is to stop Long Haul and focus on intra Germany routes in the first place, the 4 Belgium registered SN operated planes and their crews in DUS will become available for SN, or did I miss something?
Yes: the long-haul routes ex-DUS will be operated by Network Airlines. If those planes go to SN, it will be to operate the DUS long-haul routes. But they could as well return to LH for them to operate those routes. Anyway, don't expect them in BRU.
André
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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 24 Jun 2019, 21:27

Ansett wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 21:19
Imho, LH/CS still continues to talk nonsense when they say that only profitable airlines receive new equipment.
Bullshit. EW is far from profitable, but its oldest A320s will be replaced by brand-new A320neos. It's printed in today's presentations to financial analysts.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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