Air Belgium in 2018

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flightlover
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by flightlover » 13 Mar 2018, 08:26

sn26567 wrote:
12 Mar 2018, 22:47
Passenger wrote:
12 Mar 2018, 22:17
With the SIRW now investing in Air Belgium via Sparaxis, it's almost impossible for AB to move operations to BRU.
Why not? SRIW also invested in SN Brussels Airlines (or rather in SN Airholding), operating exclusively out of BRU in Belgium.
Cards are different now. The Walloon government has expressed it's vision for CRL to include long haul flights from an extended runway. So rest assured they will do all they can to materialize on that vision.

Shonix
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Re: Re:

Post by Shonix » 13 Mar 2018, 09:43

DeltaWiskey wrote:
12 Mar 2018, 21:00
Shonix wrote:
12 Mar 2018, 16:29
We all hope so. However, let's never underestimate the politics in Belgium. Never... Air Belgium is flagged as a "Walloon project" which doesn't makes things easier when the country is mostly ruled by the "Flemish" at the Federal level.

I don't want to start a debate about Walloons vs Flemish but unfortunately, this parameter has to be taken into account.
That is just a ridiculous statement. I guess you have never dealt with our Aviation Authorities yourself, they are just as "hard" for everyone, be it Flemish, Walloon,... They don't have a preference for one part of the country, quite some of them don't even speak Dutch, which is ok by me, as long as they do their job in a decent manner.

If VLM is not getting their AOC in a reasonable timeframe, everyone on this forum blames politics and Walloon politicians influencing of the BCAA for not letting this "Flemish" project taking off. If it's Air Belgium not getting its AOC in a reasonable time, it's exactly the opposite. (Apparently it has never crossed anyone's mind that both of them might have submitted a file that was subpar? The BCAA are not a bunch of aviation enthousiast that want to see every project succeed, they have to check that companies operate in accordance with all applicable legislation)

If you say you don't want to start a debate Flanders vs Wallonia, then just don't do it. Is it really that hard?!
Not that much ridiculous, unfortunately. I've heard enough wihtin the aviation industry to confirm there is a profound cleavage between walloons and flemish. I deeply regret it but that's how it is. Of course, it is never publicly admitted but it's the reality.

I find it very caricatural but this is how the following companie's identity are percieved:

BRU Airport= flemish
Brussels Airlines= flemish
CRL Airport = walloon
Liège Airport = walloon
Air Belgium = walloon

CRL and Liège it's obvious... However, regarding BRU and Brussels Airlines, it's an issue since those two companies should represent Belgium in a whole without distinction between walloons and flemish. However, they don't. They are perceived as flemish and believe me, they don't want to.

Passenger
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Re: Re:

Post by Passenger » 13 Mar 2018, 10:33

Shonix wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 09:43
I find it very caricatural but this is how the following companie's identity are percieved:
BRU Airport= flemish
Brussels Airlines= flemish
CRL Airport = walloon
Liège Airport = walloon
Air Belgium = walloon
Well, I'm living in the north, and a company with a French speaking CEO (Bernard Gustin) and a French speaking president of the Board (Etienne Davignon) was not percieved as "Flemish" here.

Shonix
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Re: Re:

Post by Shonix » 13 Mar 2018, 12:32

Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 10:33
Shonix wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 09:43
I find it very caricatural but this is how the following companie's identity are percieved:
BRU Airport= flemish
Brussels Airlines= flemish
CRL Airport = walloon
Liège Airport = walloon
Air Belgium = walloon
Well, I'm living in the north, and a company with a French speaking CEO (Bernard Gustin) and a French speaking president of the Board (Etienne Davignon) was not percieved as "Flemish" here.
Perception cannot be solely evaluated on two individuals within a company. There are many other aspects to take into account.

What I find sad in Belgium is no matter the company, there will always be the wallon/flemish identity that will arise someday, somehow.

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 13 Mar 2018, 14:47

Can we please stick to Air Belgium in this thread?

Feel free to open a new topic to discuss other matters!
André
ex Sabena #26567

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 13 Mar 2018, 14:53

So the Walloon government is now stepping into Air Belgium through SIRW and Sparaxis. With Sowaer already exploiting CRL-airport, I wonder if the investment of the new business lounge and the cost of the runway extension will survive the EU state aid rules.

Unless CRL raises its handling cost fees and its airport taxes? But if so: why then choose CRL for long haul operations? No public transport, no railway connection, no affordable taxi connection, no feeder airlines. A single runway and a night curfew.

Acid-drop
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Acid-drop » 13 Mar 2018, 15:41

I remember vaguely that the whole goal of having an investment intermediary is to avoid EU rules.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

crew1990
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by crew1990 » 13 Mar 2018, 16:01

Shonix wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 09:43
BRU Airport= flemish
Brussels Airlines= flemish
CRL Airport = walloon
Liège Airport = walloon
Air Belgium = walloon
Allow me to disagree

BRU Airport= National/Belgian
Brussels Airlines= National/Belgian
Liège Airport= Walloon
Charleroi Airport= Walloon
Oostende Airport= Flemish
Antwerp Airport= Flemish
Tui Fly= Flemish
VLM= Flemish

Air Belgium I'm puzzled, Niki T. is walloon, he was working in Liège, it's true that most investment come from wallonia, but it was the case with Brussels Airlines and nobody refrain the Flemish region to invest in Air Belgium, but they don't, even in VLM they don't invest. To go back to Air Belgium some of the manager are Flemmish, quite a few come from Thomas Cook Airlines, the head of cabin crew etc. As the head of cabin crew is Dutch speaker, we can be sure that most cabin crew will mostly be Dutch speaker too, like it was at Thomas Cook Airlines.
So for the moment I would say "Belgian"

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 13 Mar 2018, 16:08

sn26567 wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 14:47
Can we please stick to Air Belgium in this thread?

Feel free to open a new topic to discuss other matters!
Second warning!

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Boeing767copilot » 13 Mar 2018, 16:58

Air Belgium, the new Belgian airline, today announces it has obtained its air operator’s certificate (AOC). The first flights will take off in mid-April 2018 and the ticket sale will start in the next few days.

http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-b ... mid-april/

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 13 Mar 2018, 17:07

Boeing767copilot wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 16:58
Air Belgium, the new Belgian airline, today announces it has obtained its air operator’s certificate (AOC). The first flights will take off in mid-April 2018 and the ticket sale will start in the next few days.
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H.A.


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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 13 Mar 2018, 18:04

A mystery group of Hong Kong investors is backing a new long-haul budget carrier, betting on the rise of low-cost travel despite the wafer-thin margins of the airline industry.

Air Belgium chief executive Niky Terzakis gave little away about his Hong Kong backers, who control a 49 per cent stake, saying only that they were not “airline people”.

“Everyone keeps focusing on [their identities]”, he complained. He added that details of the investors would be in the “public record very soon” and the majority shareholding was “in Belgium and Europe”.

Read more: http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/econ ... arrier-air

convair
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by convair » 13 Mar 2018, 19:51

Niky Terzakis wrote:

"I must also highlight the great work and support of the Belgian Civil Aviation Administration throughout this 4 month process."

We are far from the many hurdles and feet-dragging some have been proclaiming here for months!

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by jan_olieslagers » 13 Mar 2018, 19:53

Mr. Terzakis is obviously very polite, a real gentleman!

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 13 Mar 2018, 20:06

convair wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 19:51
Niky Terzakis wrote:
"I must also highlight the great work and support of the Belgian Civil Aviation Administration throughout this 4 month process."

We are far from the many hurdles and feet-dragging some have been proclaiming here for months!
Four months?
May I remind you to this post from 12th August 2016? That topic is locked, so it's not the usual quote:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by sn26567 » 12 Aug 2016, 13:16

Air Belgium (Liège) is a Belgian start-up planning to commence revenue operations later this year.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting » 13 Mar 2018, 20:26

It was I think the 3rd try, the 2 others weren't successful...

Btw. I went to RTL info, Facebook and Twitter. I have more news ;

OO-ABA is being stickered at Sabena Aerospace's Hangar (at BRU). They apparently finished the tail...
Pic is from Travel Magazine...
FB_IMG_1520964691991.jpg
Screenshot_2018-03-13-18-02-15.png
Other news, seen on Twitter, I could not remember me, but the launch of operations is on April 16...
As I'm a student of 16, Easter is not really useful !

Greetings !
Thibault
I'm Thibault >
> Student
> Spotter at home (or outdoor,that's better) since 2016
> Instagram,Facebook and Twitter > @TLspotting

convair
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by convair » 13 Mar 2018, 20:44

Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 20:06
convair wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 19:51
Niky Terzakis wrote:
"I must also highlight the great work and support of the Belgian Civil Aviation Administration throughout this 4 month process."

We are far from the many hurdles and feet-dragging some have been proclaiming here for months!
Four months?
May I remind you to this post from 12th August 2016? That topic is locked, so it's not the usual quote:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by sn26567 » 12 Aug 2016, 13:16

Air Belgium (Liège) is a Belgian start-up planning to commence revenue operations later this year.
No real need. I know it's a very long saga :) ; you might have noticed that I merely quoted Terzakis about the 4 months. I don't know when he filed the application, but it's possible that the Administration told him to come back when he would have a suitable file.

Or, maybe the explanation is hereunder:
jan_olieslagers wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 19:53
Mr. Terzakis is obviously very polite, a real gentleman!
It's nice to still have a few around! :)

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 13 Mar 2018, 22:10

Some people here suggest that the Belgian CAA has just followed the rules and that Air Belgium's AOC request back in 2016 was just an attempt to learn about how to apply it for real. No! Air Belgium expected to start flying as from end of 2016. But their AOC request was delayed time after time after time.

Let me give one clear example about how the Belgian CAA has blocked off the AOC request, in 2002, from VG Airlines (though it was a different chief administrator at that time). I heared this story from Freddy Van Gaever himself a few times:

In its business plan, VG Airlines had written: "ad hoc charter flights for the supporters of Belgian soccer teams, going to away-games in the Champions League and Uefa League".

VG Airlines then received a letter from the BCAA: "please give us the exact dates and routes for these flights, for 2002 and 2003".

Reply from VG Airlines, by phone: "I cannot give you that because it's a soccer competition, with schedules and drafts that are decided on very short notice".

Reply from the BCAA: "we don't discuss current requests over the phone. Please send us a letter".

Reply from VG Airlines: "to which e-mail address?"

Reply from the BCAA: "we don't discuss current requests by e-mail. Please send it by postal service or by a courier".


WHY the Belgian CAA delayed Air Belgium's AOC? I don't know. I really don't know.

Amavro
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Amavro » 13 Mar 2018, 22:16

Is it painting ?
Last edited by Amavro on 13 Mar 2018, 22:18, edited 1 time in total.

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