Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by convair » 17 May 2018, 22:30

Passenger wrote:
17 May 2018, 20:55
Wait! The consulate in Antwerp hasn't been closed by the Belgian government. It was a decision from the government of DR Congo, as part of their reply to the decision from Alexander De Croo, in January 2018, about Belgian development aid. De Croo decided to redirect it from DRC-government controlled bodies to DRC NGO's.

Hence: there is no reason to expell Congolese diplomats.
Since the consulate was closed by the RDC government, it obviously can no longer deliver valid visas. Unless the 'diplomats' were relocated to Brussels embassy or to another consulate, there is no reason for them to stay in Belgium, hence the need to expell them.
Passenger wrote:
17 May 2018, 20:55
Hence: the visa that the Congolese Consulate in Antwerp has issued, were issued normally and were valid. But they were issued to two journalists from public broadcaster VRT, not known to be "Kabila friendly". So they were refused entry for two reasons: the VRT should ask permits to the Embassy in Brussels, and Kabila is still waiting for apologies from De Croo.
I'm well aware of the circumstances around that new episode of the RDC-Belgium relations, the De Croo decision and the whims of Kabila and Co. However, It is not up to you or me to decide that a visa is valid or not.

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Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by Passenger » 17 May 2018, 23:49

convair wrote:
17 May 2018, 22:30
Passenger wrote:
17 May 2018, 20:55
Wait! The consulate in Antwerp hasn't been closed by the Belgian government. It was a decision from the government of DR Congo, as part of their reply to the decision from Alexander De Croo, in January 2018, about Belgian development aid. De Croo decided to redirect it from DRC-government controlled bodies to DRC NGO's. Hence: there is no reason to expell Congolese diplomats.
Since the consulate was closed by the RDC government, it obviously can no longer deliver valid visas. Unless the 'diplomats' were relocated to Brussels embassy or to another consulate, there is no reason for them to stay in Belgium, hence the need to expell them.
The consulate isn't closed. Or was perhaps temporary closed for visitors. Or has reopened meanwhile:
http://www.consulat-rdcongo.be/
convair wrote:
17 May 2018, 22:30
Since the consulate was closed by the RDC government, it obviously can no longer deliver valid visas.
The visa were officially put in their passports, and they were thus valid. The proof is that they were allowed boarding.

The visa were valid but worthless, as visa can be revoked upon entry - which happened here. The reason that they were refused, doesn't make sense indeed. But once you've been there, you know that it's useless to try to understand them (a lesson I learned from Maurice V., Sabena's station manager at Kinshasa, a few decades ago).

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by lumumba » 19 May 2018, 19:47

What surprised my is that they also use the 330-200 to Kinshasa and more surprising even with Luanda,Kinshasa route...
So it's not performing so good at the end!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

RebeccaFP
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by RebeccaFP » 24 May 2018, 20:47

It's means that the Luanda flights are non stop now.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by lumumba » 25 May 2018, 07:57

RebeccaFP wrote:
24 May 2018, 20:47
It's means that the Luanda flights are non stop now.
No still via Kinshasa to go to Brussels.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by RoMax » 25 May 2018, 14:09

Luanda has never been a high volume market (but the 'few' passengers can generate high yields), which always meant a good combination with FIH which has the high volumes. But now FIH simply doesn't have the volumes, the issue is not as simple as oh they have to downgrade to 4/week so these flights will be more filled than usual - the whole diplomatic conflict simply also impacts local Belgium-Congo demand.
But anyway, the BRU-LAD-FIH-BRU route was regularly operated by -200's in the past as well. I've been on one myself ;)

Btw, British Airways decided to suspend their route to Luanda (2/week with 789) after 7-9 June "as the flights are not commercially viable". https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... a-service/

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by lumumba » 25 May 2018, 14:43

RoMax wrote:
25 May 2018, 14:09
Luanda has never been a high volume market (but the 'few' passengers can generate high yields), which always meant a good combination with FIH which has the high volumes. But now FIH simply doesn't have the volumes, the issue is not as simple as oh they have to downgrade to 4/week so these flights will be more filled than usual - the whole diplomatic conflict simply also impacts local Belgium-Congo demand.
But anyway, the BRU-LAD-FIH-BRU route was regularly operated by -200's in the past as well. I've been on one myself ;)

Btw, British Airways decided to suspend their route to Luanda (2/week with 789) after 7-9 June "as the flights are not commercially viable". https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... a-service/
But for LH or AF it's a high volume market,AF is has long than SN on the Luanda route but LH took a big part in a short time.

I mentioned it already in the discontinued route treat about British Airways ;)
Hasta la victoria siempre.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by rwandan-flyer » 25 May 2018, 19:30

But for LH or AF it's a high volume market,AF is has long than SN on the Luanda route but LH took a big part in a short time.
KLM, Lufthansa and Air France operate only 3 flights a week, it's not a real big presence. Even on Malabo, Lufthansa (daily) and Air France (5 times a week) have more flights.

On Luanda, you have also Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc, Kenya Airways, TAP Air Portugal and Emirates, very strong competitors. Only TAP serves Luanda daily, Ethiopian and Emirates have reduced their flights. Iberia dropped route few years ago. Even SonAir operated by Atlas has dropped its Luanda Houston route.

Don't forget also, Angola is facing to the oil crisis and many airlines are "waiting for cash" (Angola owes Foreign Airlines $500 Million –). Turkish Airlines has several times postponed its first flight to Luanda, probably a little bit linked to the current situation of the Angolan Economy.

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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by jan_olieslagers » 25 May 2018, 19:42

Thanks for a well-written and well-thought and well-informed post, @rwandan-flyer! Not your first, either.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by lumumba » 26 May 2018, 10:48

rwandan-flyer wrote:
25 May 2018, 19:30
But for LH or AF it's a high volume market,AF is has long than SN on the Luanda route but LH took a big part in a short time.
KLM, Lufthansa and Air France operate only 3 flights a week, it's not a real big presence. Even on Malabo, Lufthansa (daily) and Air France (5 times a week) have more flights.

On Luanda, you have also Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc, Kenya Airways, TAP Air Portugal and Emirates, very strong competitors. Only TAP serves Luanda daily, Ethiopian and Emirates have reduced their flights. Iberia dropped route few years ago. Even SonAir operated by Atlas has dropped its Luanda Houston route.

Don't forget also, Angola is facing to the oil crisis and many airlines are "waiting for cash" (Angola owes Foreign Airlines $500 Million –). Turkish Airlines has several times postponed its first flight to Luanda, probably a little bit linked to the current situation of the Angolan Economy.
Emirates was forced to reduced there flights because they lost there right from TAAG .....long story...
Anyway they could fly full every day for AF same story (they have contracts with oil ccompany's even with a lower price of oil the production continues)they don't have more rights to fly that's why KLM is also flying 2 times .
Compare to Brussels Airlines that is flying 2 times with 60 to 70 passengers per flight to AF 3 times with a 777-300 .....
But you are right about Turkish Airlines.
Also Iberia stop and now BA,Luanda is a difficult market for multiple reasons .
The Houston flight still exist..
Last edited by lumumba on 26 May 2018, 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by convair » 26 May 2018, 14:12

lumumba wrote:
26 May 2018, 10:48
rwandan-flyer wrote:
25 May 2018, 19:30
But for LH or AF it's a high volume market,AF is has long than SN on the Luanda route but LH took a big part in a short time.
KLM, Lufthansa and Air France operate only 3 flights a week, it's not a real big presence. Even on Malabo, Lufthansa (daily) and Air France (5 times a week) have more flights.

On Luanda, you have also Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc, Kenya Airways, TAP Air Portugal and Emirates, very strong competitors. Only TAP serves Luanda daily, Ethiopian and Emirates have reduced their flights. Iberia dropped route few years ago. Even SonAir operated by Atlas has dropped its Luanda Houston route.

Don't forget also, Angola is facing to the oil crisis and many airlines are "waiting for cash" (Angola owes Foreign Airlines $500 Million –). Turkish Airlines has several times postponed its first flight to Luanda, probably a little bit linked to the current situation of the Angolan Economy.
Emirates was forced to reduced there flights because they lost there right from TAAG .....long story...
Anyway they could fly full every day for AF same story (they have contracts with oil company even with a lower price of oil the production continues)they don't have more rights to fly that's why KLM is also flying 2 times .
Compare to Brussels Airlines that is flying 2 times with 60 to 70 passengers per flight to AF 3 times with a 777-300 .....
But you are right about Turkish Airlines.
Also Iberia stop and now BA,Luanda is a difficult market for multiple reasons .
The Houston flight still exist..
But before the reduction of flights to Kinshasa, SN had 3 direct flights a week to Luanda, with a stop at Kinshasa on the return.

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by Darjeeling » 27 May 2018, 12:02

The fact SN uses A332 doesn't necessarily means LAD isn't doing good.

At least with an A332 they don't face any weight penalties for a direct BRU-LAD. It means more cargo... Weight penalties can be hefty ones on SFM/N/O/V/W... But they will still need to take up fuel in FIH for the FIH-BRU leg which is in that case a financial disadvantage.

Moreover the seat numbers difference isn't that much between A332/A333. You loose a few seats in Y and 8 seats in C, which is still manageable (you simply upgrade less).

One more fact that makes operation difficult in Angola is currencies repatriations for local sales. Typical from a corrupt dictatorship (remember Venezuela for instance).

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by rwandan-flyer » 28 May 2018, 20:56

Eurostat, from 2010 to 2016. Till 2014, traffic was growing, but since 2014, trafic is decreasing, on the most routes between Angola and Europe. There, we talk about direct service, operated by Bristish Airways, Brussels Airlines, Air France, TAAG, Lufthansa and TAAG.

2014-2016

Almost - 8 000 pax, for Air France
-30 000 pax between Portugal and Angola (TAAG / TAP)
- 19 975 pax between UK & Angola (British Airways)
- 2 418 pax between Angola & Belgium (Brussels Airlines, however 2015 was better than 2014.

Only KLM seems to grow.

Image
Image

On the UK CAA website, for March 2018 (a low month), British Airways carried 631 pax ( over 1023, last year)

http://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/ ... arch-2018/

Image

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by sn26567 » 04 Jul 2018, 18:13

Due to the reduced activity in Kinshasa, Brussels Airlines fired 15 of its 80 employees in Kinshasa last Friday, 29 June, after getting the authorisation from the Minister of Employment (he could hardly refuse after limiting SN's flights to four per week instead of seven).

This dismissal without notice didn't please the employees, who started a strike. The flight to Brussels was delayed by three hours on Friday night.

The local media criticise SN management for their handling of the situation:

https://www.digitalcongo.net/article/5b ... 004cded17/
https://www.mediacongo.net/article-actu ... etard.html
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by jan_olieslagers » 04 Jul 2018, 19:57

I cannot help thinking that a bit of political/diplomatic action could have helped to smoothen things out. I am a bit disappointed in the lack of success of Belgian diplomacy - and some "on the other side" might well feel along the same lines. Of course the current SN/BA is no longer directly linked to the Belgian state but that might be slow to come to certain minds.

Flying Scout
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by Flying Scout » 05 Jul 2018, 10:11

Belgian diplomaty might have interfered but I'm think the other party may have asked for things tgat our governement did not want to allow. According to me it's indeed political, but I son't think it good to allow alle practices just to let SN fly more.

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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by sn26567 » 25 Jul 2018, 16:26

On the occasion of the Belgian national day which was celebrated on Saturday, July 21st at the Belgian embassy in Kinshasa, Philippe Bronchain, chargé d'affaires of the Belgian embassy announced that a dialogue is underway between Kinshasa and Brussels with a view to normalising relations between two countries.

Philippe Bronchain said that the Belgian government hopes that the ongoing talks between the DRC and Belgium could lead to a retreat regarding certain retaliatory measures between the two states.

"The communication channels between Belgium and the DRC remain wide open and a dialogue is underway. Belgium hopes that it will lead to possible solutions to the problems posed by the cessation of activities of the Schengen House, the closure of the Consulates General of Lubumbashi and Antwerp, the reduction of frequencies of Brussels Airlines. The modus operandi of ENABEL in the DRC may also be discussed," says Philippe Bronchain.
André
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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by lumumba » 13 Aug 2018, 05:57

Why is Brussels Airlines reducing there frequency and from when, there is no explanation in the press release!!!!!!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

airbuske
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by airbuske » 13 Aug 2018, 09:23

I had the look in the reservation system and I see at this moment no reduction. :!: :?: :roll:
I see 4 frequencies : 1--4-67
Best regards,

Airbuske

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines loses three of its 7 weekly frequencies to Kinshasa

Post by Darjeeling » 13 Aug 2018, 09:41

Troubled times ahead for DR Congo. Simply.

Elections are always a period where demand is slowing down, both pax and cargo. I assume forward booking where much lower than what they used to be at this time of the year.

And I think it looks to be even more difficult this year as far as these "elections" are concerned...

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