Brussels region noise regulation

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Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax » 19 Feb 2018, 15:39

sn26567 wrote:
19 Feb 2018, 15:35
I had the opportunity to discuss with Mr Bellot. He is an engineer by education, and thus very pragmatic. He tries to solve problems in a rational way, by sequences.

He had started to find a panel of international experts to give him a neutral opinion about the BRU noise issue. Only one company had submitted an offer, which had to be rejected because some of the experts involved had a relation with Brussels Airport. A new tender has to be organised, and it is impossible that the winner will issue conclusions before the next general election. Bellot is not a coward, but the first minister since a long time who tries to find a genuine solution.
And I am quite sure that he thinks about the MR electorate in Brussels as well. In fact there is no need for a tender; ICAO have specialists available; just give a call to Montreal.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 » 19 Feb 2018, 17:27

Mr Bellot is from Rochefort in the Ardennes (also down-to-earth people) and doesn't give a damn about the MR electorate in Brussels. And the normal procedure for working for the State is a call for tender.
André
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Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax » 19 Feb 2018, 19:19

sn26567 wrote:
19 Feb 2018, 17:27
Mr Bellot is from Rochefort in the Ardennes (also down-to-earth people) and doesn't give a damn about the MR electorate in Brussels. And the normal procedure for working for the State is a call for tender.
Really? You can be sure that he already received some calls from the MR electorate in La Capitale. The MR needs to be ready for the next communal elections.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 23 Mar 2018, 09:28

In BRUZZ today.
Brussels Airport is proposing to isolated houses...like it's already done in other airports in Belgium LGG,CRL.
That exactly what I proposed some posts ago another option in LGG was also give the possibility to buy the house's....

© Woluwe-Saint-Lambert.eklablog.com |
Arnaud Feist van Brussels Airport stelt een plan voor om de huizen van bewoners die lijden onder het vliegtuiglawaai, te isoleren.



Dat schrijft L’Echo vrijdag.

De baas van Brussels Airport, Arnaud Feist, verkondigde zijn ideeën over het beperken van de geluidsoverlast tijdens een conferentie in de B19 Business Club in Brussel.

Aan de ene kant stelt hij voor om vliegtuigen te concentreren op smalle vliegstroken, om zo het aantal overgevlogen huizen te verminderen.

Tegelijkertijd suggereert hij een programma voor akoestische isolatie van huizen, om de geluidsoverlast voor bewoners te verminderen. "Deze optie kan zeker overwogen worden, maar wij zijn niet degenen die besluiten. Dat is de politiek”, klinkt het.

De heer Feist verwacht echter geen vooruitgang in het dossier voor de gemeenteraadsverkiezingen en de federale verkiezingen.

De pistes voorgesteld door Feist respecteren een zekere logica en worden al toegepast door andere luchthavens, waaronder die in Wallonië (Liège Airport, Brussels South Charleroi Airport).
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 » 23 Mar 2018, 11:10

lumumba wrote:
23 Mar 2018, 09:28
Dat schrijft L’Echo vrijdag.
If it was in L'Echo, it was in French and it would have been better to post the original with what was "lost in translation". ;)

Nevertheless, I spoke this morning with Philip Lawson, the journalist who wrote the article. In his view, this is the beginning of a solution for the BRU noise issue. In all airports in the world, they "concentrate and insulate". In Brussels, they disperse! Why not "concentrate and insulate" like in LGG and CRL?

Of course, the costs in the highly populated Brussels agglomeration would be much higher than in CRL or LGG, but there is already a fund with money available to start. Extending 25L to the East is part of that solution: the people under the prolonged 25L should be the first beneficiaries, together with the people of Woluwe mentioned in the article.

Of course, under special wind circumstances, there would still be people having more noise than usual, but that is only a minor disadvantage.
André
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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 23 Mar 2018, 11:23

I happy it could be the begging of the solution that's good news ....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 23 Mar 2018, 11:35

lumumba wrote:
19 Feb 2018, 14:39
jan_olieslagers wrote:
19 Feb 2018, 11:58
There is a big difference between 10 and 25 km.
And there's an equal difference in size between Brussels and London.

MOD EDIT: Censored, I warned you.
You did not answer about my proposition to isolated or buy houses in Kortenberg and Erps Kwerps?
Some posts ago....I said Brussels but I was not sure it could financially possible because population density.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Acid-drop » 23 Mar 2018, 12:56

Have a look at google earth and you will understand the challenge and the difference with other airports.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by jan_olieslagers » 19 Apr 2018, 10:40

Mr. Bellot is fed up with being everybody's scapegoat:

(in Dutch) https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/04/19 ... deren--br/

Without knowing every detail, I feel he has no reason to complain: nobody promised it would be easy to be a minister of transport. And if certain parties involved obstruct proceedings, it is for the government to govern - that is what they are paid for.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 19 Apr 2018, 12:26

jan_olieslagers wrote:
19 Apr 2018, 10:40
Mr. Bellot is fed up with being everybody's scapegoat:

(in Dutch) https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/04/19 ... deren--br/

Without knowing every detail, I feel he has no reason to complain: nobody promised it would be easy to be a minister of transport. And if certain parties involved obstruct proceedings, it is for the government to govern - that is what they are paid for.
For one time we are agree ;)
Hasta la victoria siempre.

sn-remember
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn-remember » 17 May 2018, 21:16

Now this seems interesting ..
In one word, it's about fixing the wind speed to 7 knots threshold to invert the way for take-off /landing.
Excerpt
"Concrètement, le ministre de la Mobilité veut mettre fin à un certain arbitraire dans l’utilisation des pistes à Brussels Airport. Il propose donc de fixer à 7 nœuds effectifs la norme de vent au-delà de laquelle on basculera les mouvements d’atterrissages et de décollages des pistes parallèles 25 (R et L) vers les mêmes infrastructures, mais dans le sens inverse (07R et 07L). Le basculement renvoie les atterrissages sur la piste diagonale 01 et les décollages sur les 07.
Actuellement, on change le sens des mouvements quand les normes sont comprises entre 5 et 7 nœuds.
En fixant avec autant de précision la norme de vent de basculement, le ministre Bellot revient à la situation qui prévalait avant 2003, c’est-à-dire avant le plan Anciaux. "Si la proposition du ministre Bellot est acceptée, elle stabiliserait l’utilisation préférentielle des pistes 25 (on passerait de 75% à près de 87%), ce qui est une meilleure garantie pour la sécurité aussi.
D’autres observateurs rappellent que la clarification des normes pourrait contribuer à augmenter la capacité horaire de Brussels Airport. Ce dernier passerait ainsi de 74 à 80 mouvements par heure.
"
https://www.lecho.be/dossier/survoldebr ... source=SIM

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 18 May 2018, 10:26

sn-remember wrote:
17 May 2018, 21:16
Now this seems interesting ..
In one word, it's about fixing the wind speed to 7 knots threshold to invert the way for take-off /landing.
Excerpt
"....Actuellement, on change le sens des mouvements quand les normes sont comprises entre 5 et 7 nœuds.
....
Not sure I understand what his intention is.

This is from the current AIP :
Page from EB_AD_2_EBBR_en_2018-03-29.jpg
Does Bellot intends to increase the number of landings on 07 by raising the max allowed tail component from 3 to 7 kts?
:?

H.A.

Stij
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Stij » 18 May 2018, 11:36

Personally, I think that's a great idea, if we can use the 07's in parallel because using 01 an 07R together reduces capacity significantly.

Could be a nice compromise to win Brussels over...
See where I've flown at OpenFlights!

Atco EBBR
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Atco EBBR » 18 May 2018, 17:49

Stij wrote:
18 May 2018, 11:36
Personally, I think that's a great idea, if we can use the 07's in parallel because using 01 an 07R together reduces capacity significantly.
Yes indeed, would be much better for capacity!
Could be a nice compromise to win Brussels over...
I think the only way to win Brussels over would be to use 25R for arrivals and 07R for departures... ;)

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger » 18 May 2018, 18:29

Atco EBBR wrote:
18 May 2018, 17:49
I think the only way to win Brussels over would be to use 25R for arrivals and 07R for departures... ;)
Yep. But shouldn't we then rename the airport into Steenokkerzeel Erps-Kwerps International Airport?

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by jan_olieslagers » 18 May 2018, 18:34

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 18 May 2018, 19:15

If they extend 25L and use it also for take off and there are no night flights over Brussels.

Plus a programme to isolate or buy the houses in Erps Kwerps,Kortenberg etc...I think we might find the solution.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger » 18 May 2018, 20:50

lumumba wrote:
18 May 2018, 19:15
If they extend 25L and use it also for take off and there are no night flights over Brussels.

Plus a programme to isolate or buy the houses in Erps Kwerps,Kortenberg etc...I think we might find the solution.
You still don't get it, do you?

Brussels wants only the advantages of the airport: revenu generated from tourists, revenu generated by people working at the European Commission, revenu generated by people working at the Nato, revenu generated by people working at international headquarters, lobby firms, international press, ...

The disadvantages of the airport, specially the noise? They're for Flanders.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 18 May 2018, 21:28

Passenger wrote:
18 May 2018, 20:50
lumumba wrote:
18 May 2018, 19:15
If they extend 25L and use it also for take off and there are no night flights over Brussels.

Plus a programme to isolate or buy the houses in Erps Kwerps,Kortenberg etc...I think we might find the solution.
You still don't get it, do you?

Brussels wants only the advantages of the airport: revenu generated from tourists, revenu generated by people working at the European Commission, revenu generated by people working at the Nato, revenu generated by people working at international headquarters, lobby firms, international press, ...

The disadvantages of the airport, specially the noise? They're for Flanders.
I don't think so but let's see time will tell..
It's so much more complex .
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger » 31 May 2018, 10:18

On request of Grimbergen, Machelen, Meise, Vilvoorde and Wemmel, a Judge has ruled that minister Bellot must make an aviation law before Februari 2020, and that minister Bellot must consult formally with all parties involved before 17th September 2018.

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/re ... ~abb9f617/

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