Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

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Homo Aeroportus
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Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

I'd like to suggest PTY as a new long haul destination for SN.

PTY/MPTO is Panama International, Tocumen airport. I made a couple of missions there about 10 years back when they renewed and extended the terminal, going from 12 gates to 22.
Now they are further increasing the capacity by building a new “Terminal Sur” giving an additional 20 contact gates.
MPTO South Terminal Foster.jpg
South Terminal is that double wing blended building.

I was also impressed at that time already by the dynamism of the home-based CoPa Airlines. They currently have about 80 aircraft (737/8 and E190) and ordered another 90 from Boeing, mainly 737-8MAX. :o
They have a pretty large network of destinations which should further grow with the deliveries of new aircraft.
PTY is well positioned on the map to serve the central part of Latin America and COPA is Star Alliance so could PTY become an interesting destination for SN?

There are indeed already some direct flights from Europe to PTY. Dailies with IB (A343) and KL (B773) as well as four times a week by AF (B772), but the only Star Alliance service from Europe is a thrice weekly TAP (A332) with first a stop in BOG.
Of course Star Alliance has numerous destinations to LatAm with LH having several direct flights from FRA to BOG, GIG, GRU, EZE and MEX, all dailies (+ double shots from MUC to GRU and MEX), FRA to Caracas thrice weekly, as well as LX daily from ZRH to GRU, but these destinations still leave large white spots on the map.
Star A to LatAm.jpg
Star A to LatAm.jpg (52.85 KiB) Viewed 4019 times
Courtesy The Great Circle Mapper.

PTY is within range (slightly shorter than SFO) and clear of ETOPS 120 (I don’t know what the SN A330’s certified for?).
From there, a code share with COPA could make a nice offering from “the heart of Europe”.
BRU PTY.gif
A possible timetable is :
Departing BRU at 10:00 LT (late enough to feed), arriving PTY 13:50LT, leaving at 15:30 and landing at BRU the next day at 08:30 in time again for European connections.
Arriving in PTY at 13:50 puts you well ahead of IB (15:55), KL (16:55) and AF (17:45) but also offers many connections during one of the waves of COPA.

PTY is rather smooth for transfer and no immigration is necessary if you depart within 6 hours. MCT should be 45 minutes at max.
There are 22 COPA flights leaving between 1 and 3 hours after SN would-be arrival !
Most of these flights arrive in the early evening at final destination, except for those in far south and in the West where they land just past midnight local time.
CM out of MPTO.jpg
CM out of MPTO.jpg (36.68 KiB) Viewed 4019 times

So, "Pity why" .... not?

H.A.

Inquirer
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Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by Inquirer »

Because Lufthansa will fly the route soon, offering much more connecting options in FRA, maybe?

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press/ ... /3430.html
Last edited by Inquirer on 08 Jun 2015, 21:38, edited 1 time in total.

nordikcam
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by nordikcam »

I like this project...flying often to HAV...thx for Imaging it !

Wouter_DM

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by Wouter_DM »

They are hiring a new Marketing/Sales Manager for the US. Aswell as a Pricing Analyst based in Chicago. I guess that those new destination will come sooner than we think! ;)

Source: http://www.cvwarehouse.com/brusselsairl ... Xa4PlXtmGq

Flanker2
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Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by Flanker2 »

They are hiring a new Marketing/Sales Manager for the US. Aswell as a Pricing Analyst based in Chicago. I guess that those new destination will come sooner than we think! ;)
They can break even on ORD, but same as JFK, I don't see any money to be made there, even with Africa connections. It would be a waste of an aircraft IMO.- since UA has this route covered.
If there really is a demand for more seats to/from ORD, it would be much better if SN could convince UA to upgrade this flight to a B744 or a B77W/A35J they have on order.

They are in a joint-venture after all, let's use that.

Panama was an interesting idea.
In the U.S., I only see DEN work out due to a combination of O&D, scarce competition to/from Europe and excellent connections to the West Coast. IAH could work too, but I don't know enough to say.
HNL could also be interesting. There are no direct flights from Europe and there is high yield O&D and connecting traffic. Operationally it would be a nightmare, but it should make money and it's not a seasonal route.

If the primary goal is to enhance feeding to Africa, then SN needs to look East, not West.

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Treeper
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Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by Treeper »

ACC will be added as from 26th of October, 4 weekly.
Would it remain in the Summer '16 schedule?

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by sn26567 »

Treeper wrote:ACC will be added as from 26th of October, 4 weekly.
Would it remain in the Summer '16 schedule?
With the disappearance of NBO in the schedule, ACC is likely to stay for a long time.
André
ex Sabena #26567

nordikcam
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by nordikcam »

But if they continue Kigali( 5 times a week ) and Bujumbura Entebbe ( 3 times a week ) it will stay the same.
And next summer...again IAD...and ACC ? A new one A330 ?

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by crew1990 »

Regarding my calculation, if there are still 5 weekly IAD flight next summer, there are just 2 additional flights.

There still no need for a 9th aircraft unless they ad some more frequency or another destination in summer, which I hope will be the case.

Monday: 8 flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Younde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Tuesday: 7 flights

Dakar-Conacry
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York
Washington

Wednesday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Douala-Younde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Thursday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Conacry
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York
Washington

Friday: 8 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa
New York
Washington

Saturday: 8 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Entebbe
New York
Washington

Sunday: 8 Flights

Dakar-Conacry
Freetown-Monrovia
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York
Washington

SN501
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Joined: 15 May 2015, 12:24

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by SN501 »

Hello crew1990,

That implies the fleet has to be fully operational from Friday to Monday. That seems very ambitious.

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by crew1990 »

I don't have any technical knowledge if someone can help.

Is it possible to make the maintenance correctly of 8 aircraft on a regular basis if there 3 days which will have an aircraft not flying iso 5 days for the moment

SFM
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Joined: 11 Jan 2013, 17:21

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by SFM »

crew1990 wrote:I don't have any technical knowledge if someone can help.

Is it possible to make the maintenance correctly of 8 aircraft on a regular basis if there 3 days which will have an aircraft not flying iso 5 days for the moment
I don't think so. A- and B-checks require some time.
Besides, even if it was possible, a schedule as dense as the one you suggested has absolutely no room for technical issues. Euroatlantic, Hifly etc. would have a very lucrative summer...

RTM
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Joined: 07 Apr 2013, 00:27

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by RTM »

Planningwise it shouldn't be a problem as A-checks (there are no B-checks) can easily be planned in those 3 days. But, it does not leave room for unscheduled events, and aircraft out of action due to heavy maintenance.

Anonymous320
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Joined: 26 Apr 2012, 20:35

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by Anonymous320 »

As from next winter-season, Kigali will become a direct flight from and to Brussels.

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by crew1990 »

But unfortunately it doesn't mean it will not be combine with something else

it just now it will probably be Brussels-Kigali-Bujumbura-Kigali-Brussels or Brussels-Kigali-Entebbe-Kigali-Brussels which mean that Entebbe and Bujumbura will be via kigali both way which was not the case before as one of the stretch was direct. So this is just some blabla to finally not change anything.

Flanker2
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Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by Flanker2 »

Routes that IMO SN should cover in Africa:
Priority high: BGF, NDJ, LBV, FBM, CAI, LOS, ABJ, JNB, CAI, CPT
Priority medium: NKC, PNR, BZV, DAR, PHC
Priority low: North Africa

Given the extended range of the A321LR NEO, I think that SN needs to look at ordering at least 5, ideally 20 and establishing an afternoon wave to serve the closest African routes directly and combining with medium range routes.
With this aircraft I can also accept BOS and also keeping JFK, EWR, IAD.
Airbus is still looking for a launch customer for this variant, so perhaps they could strike a relatively good deal.

I also think that SN should keep NBO as long as they can turn positive margins even at low yields.
If they let this market go, it will be hard to get back in.
The Africa specialist should be expanding in Africa, not compromising.

crew1990
Posts: 1107
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by crew1990 »

A321LR is not the ideal aircraft for SN long haul operation, this aircraft is ok for the flight without cargo, for a holiday airlines like thomas cook for example to fly to Mombasa, Cabo Verde etc or for long domestic route like in the US, china, russia etc.

I see the point for SN to get a few A321 for the european network, bu definitely not on the African one which is full of pallet and other stuff SN is shipping to Africa.

asianlao02
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Location: Namur

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by asianlao02 »

Sn isn't known to buy or lease brand new aircraft. What about the next a330? They need aircraft to expand or to add frequency.

flightlover
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Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by flightlover »

Well, SN is transforming from a sluggish mouse into an active cat.
I mean, they are growing their fleet in numbers as well as average plane size. By upping their game like that they are also increasing the goodwill from lessors and banks. Especially as they can improve on their operational results.

If the trend keeps going as it is, they might start to think of some new planes also. But that might take a while. If not until if/when LH takes over the remaining shares.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines Summer 2016 speculation.

Post by RoMax »

Rest assured that SN is already looking at the future long haul fleet. That's not something they can, neither should, wait for until LH takes 100%. Of course such decisions are made in coordination, but it's not something that will take another 5 years before deciding on something.

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