Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL downed near Donetsk, Ukraine

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 05 Jul 2017, 11:52

MH17 suspects will stand trial in The Netherlands

The suspects in the 2014 downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 are to be prosecuted in a Dutch court, the Foreign Ministry has announced. It follows attempts , blocked by Russia in 2015, to set up an international court.

With the criminal investigation still ongoing, the start date for the trial is unknown and no suspects have been named.

The five countries involved in the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) came to the decision on Tuesday.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17 2014. It was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 283 passengers and 15 crew. The victims came from 17 countries, 196 were Dutch nationals. The JIT brougt together investigators from the Netherlands, Austrialia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine to identify those responsible for the crash and collect evidence to be used in court.

In October 2015 the Dutch Safety Board concluded that the plane was downed by a Russian-made rocket. Investigators said the rocket was fired from territory held by pro-Russian separatists.

Source: Euronews
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by stratofreighter » 24 Aug 2017, 23:20

...not holding my breath... :roll:

http://tass.com/world/961903
International investigators receive additional data on MH17 crash from Russia

World
August 24, 20:34

THE HAGUE, August 24. /TASS/. International investigators have received additional radar data from Russia on Malaysia Airlines jet crash in eastern Ukraine, the Office of the Dutch Attorney General whose representatives form part of the Joint Investigation Team said on Thursday.

In response to an additional request for legal assistance sent by the Netherlands, "we have received additional radar data from Russia this week and instructions [to the software for data decoding]," the Attorney’s Office said.

It recalled that the data received from Russia in October 2016 had not been provided in the ASTERIX format, which has been developed by the European Organization for the Safety of Civil Aviation and is internationally accepted and used worldwide.

"The additional data that we have received should be provided in the ASTERIX format," the Attorney’s Office stressed. "This information will be decoded and studied in detail in the near future."

...yes, the source is TASS... :roll:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2902 ... H17__.html
is rightwing, but certainly not government-controlled...

Official:
https://www.om.nl/actueel/nieuwsberichten/@99988/mh17/
http://www.airnieuws.nl updates per 01 April 2019: FOKKER and more . ;)

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by stratofreighter » 16 Dec 2017, 09:39

...an interesting piece on the Dutch NPO website.

NPO Nederlandse Publieke Omroep = the Dutch "VRT/RTBF" or the "Dutch BBC", i.e. : paid for by Dutch taxpayers money.
Certainly not a "commercial" news media outlet.
So regarding "commercial copyright"... ;)

https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/220773 ... raine.html
/
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
Written by

Gert-Jan Dennekamp

news reporter

Yesterday, 14:45

MH17: it had to go wrong with the Buk missile in eastern Ukraine

Experts call it irresponsible that the pro-Russian rebels have used a Buk launcher to attack Ukrainian aircraft.

The launcher has too little information and is only a small part of a larger complex.
The system only works when all parts are connected to each other.

There was no command post in Donetsk. "Of course you can shoot," says Esa Kelloniemi, who negotiated on behalf of Finland with the Russians in the nineties about the purchase of a Buk system, the system that the MH17 shot out of the blue. The Finns bought the system as an air defense system for Helsinki, to protect the city from aircraft, drones and ballistic missiles.

Flashlight

Kelloniemi, also the first Buk commander in Finland, says that the larger whole in Ukraine was missing. "It is as if you are using a flashlight in the darkness and just shoot when you see something."

According to experts, the installation was managed by well-trained soldiers, but there was no clear view of the airspace. The military therefore did not know what was flying in the air. "Their mission was to shoot the plane, which they did," says Kelloniemi.

In Finland, the training to operate a Buk system takes one year. "Then you only have the basic knowledge, but to get everything out of the system, you need more time, and it takes years to be so experienced that you are a real professional", says Kelloniemi.

According to the former commander, the system only works if all parts are connected to each other. The command post is central. "He gets the information about the airspace of a mobile radar and the information about the target is passed on by the command post, where the officer in the launch vehicle only carries out the orders from the command post."

There was no command post in Donetsk. "Of course you can shoot," Kelloniemi says, "but then you do not know where."

The Buk launcher has its own radar. If the command vehicle designates the target, the launcher can follow and lower the target. The decision as to what the goal is and whether there has to be shot is then taken in the command vehicle.

Kelloniemi: "If you are an experienced operator, you can tell by the strength of the dot on the screen whether the target is large or small and whether it often changes direction or flies in a straight line. But you are never completely certain of that information. "

Ukrainian Buk expert colonel bd Aleksandr Avramkenko says it is not unusual for a Buk launcher to be pushed forward. But the instructor emphasizes that this only happened under strict conditions. "Because the installation no longer receives the information from the command post, the officer in the Buk often gets the assignment to guard a part of the airspace."

"Everything that flies there has to be brought down, and the target launcher can not determine what kind of target the industry is flying in," Avramkenko says. "The officer did not have to take his own planes into account, because the rebels did not have airplanes and the Russian Air Force did not fly there."

Dot on the radar

According to Avramenko, that happened. "The officer shot because they had indications that a Ukrainian military plane was flying over them, but he could not check if that information was correct, they shot at a random target."

Former commander Kelloniemi himself would not have taken the decision to send only a launch installation to such a war zone. "Because you do not get information from the command center, it's hard to find the target, but you have to know what you're shooting at."

According to Kelloniemi, the crew was not able to judge properly whether a lljushin, an Antonov or a Boeing flew over. And the crew was not at all able to determine whether it was a military or commercial aircraft.

"Based on the dot on the radar, a well-trained operator can determine how big the aircraft is, how fast and fast it flies." That's an indication, but you're never 100 percent sure. "
To whom it may concern:
NPO Nederlandse Publieke Omroep is a Dutch taxpayers' funded Public broadcaster. :idea:
NPO-copyright is not as much as a problem as "commercial Dutch newspapers".
And yes, if the need arises Dutch commercial news media will enforce copyright.
Not the NPO, though... :!:
http://www.airnieuws.nl updates per 01 April 2019: FOKKER and more . ;)

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 16 Dec 2017, 17:02

stratofreighter wrote:
16 Dec 2017, 09:39
...an interesting piece on the Dutch NPO website.

NPO Nederlandse Publieke Omroep = the Dutch "VRT/RTBF" or the "Dutch BBC".

https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/220773 ... raine.html
The criminal investigation is a disgrace for both justice and aviation. There are three suspects: Ukrain, the anti-government rebels in East-Ukrain and Russia. But Ukrain, one of the suspects, is official member of the Joint Investigation Team. Hence all evidence and counterproof, brought up by Russia, is simply ignored. Just one example: the Buk manufacturer stated the damage was caused by an old type of Buk that is not in use anymore with the Russian Army. The Buk manufacturer even did a counter test to proof that. Ignored...

Same for the Dutch involvement, which is also dirty. Just a few weeks ago, Pieter Omtzigt (MEP for the CDA) had to admit that he had added a fake witness to the file: an Ukrain citizen "...who had seen the launch of the missile..."

What should be investigated, is why the Ukrain airspace wasn't closed and why the 777 was instructed (or allowed) to fly at FL330 only above a war zone.

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 21 Mar 2018, 21:41

Dutch politicians have decided that not the International Court of Justice in The Hague, but a common Dutch criminal court (also in The Hague) will rule:
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/ni ... eede-kamer

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 24 Nov 2018, 21:25

Relatives of 70 people killed as a result of the crash of flight MH17 have decided to introduce a court action against Russia at the European Court of Human Rights. They accuse Russia to have downed the aircraft.

This Court can only rule if all other actions at national courts have failed.
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 21 Jan 2019, 16:05

Russian prosecutors have responded to all queries from intl MH17 investigators – official

The Russian general prosecutor’s office says it has responded to all nine queries from international investigators over the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, which was shot down on July 17, 2014, over eastern Ukraine.

Despite the refusal to include Russia in the international joint investigation team (JIT), it still worked all these years with the Netherlands and provided all the data it had, according to Deputy Prosecutor General Nikolay Vinnichenko.

He also told RIA Novosti that the JIT “showed no interest” in the data “from Russian radars as well as files proving that the missile that hit Boeing belonged to Ukraine.

The official added that there was no evidence of any Russian nationals being involved in the crash.

Source: RT (known to be close to the Kremlin)
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL downed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 10 Feb 2019, 23:27

Russia says it is ready for talks with Netherlands on Malaysia Airlines' MH17

In May 2018 the Dutch and Australian governments said they would hold Russia responsible for the plane's downing. Russia denies any involvement.

Read more at https://www.thestar.com.my/business/bus ... vvtZQrr.99
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL downed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 20 Feb 2019, 23:06

On 21st February 2019 (10h local), the Dutch Safety Board will publish a new report. Main focus: "flying over conflict zones".

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL downed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 26 Mar 2019, 20:52

Press release Dutch government, thus in Dutch only:
Minister Blok naar Australië en Maleisië over MH17 (Minister Blok will visit Australia and Malaysia to discuss M17)

Minister Blok van Buitenlandse Zaken bezoekt Australië en Maleisië op woensdag 27 en donderdag 28 maart. Hij doet eerst Sydney en Canberra aan en vervolgens Kuala Lumpur. De minister zal in Australië en Maleisië uitgebreid stilstaan bij vlucht MH17.

Nederland, Australië en Maleisië behoren tot de landen met de meeste slachtoffers. Minister Blok spreekt tijdens zijn bezoek nabestaanden van de slachtoffers en medewerkers van Malaysia Airlines, legt ter nagedachtenis een krans bij het MH17 gedenkteken in Canberra en hij spreekt met zijn collega-ministers over de stand van zaken in het strafrechtelijk onderzoek en de aansprakelijkheidsstelling van Rusland door Nederland en Australië.

Op 17 juli is het 5 jaar geleden dat vlucht MH17, die van Amsterdam op weg was naar Maleisië, werd neergehaald. ‘Een triest jubileum dat ons met de neus op de feiten drukt. Ik benadruk: we rusten niet tot we de waarheid rond het neerhalen van vlucht MH17 boven tafel hebben en er gerechtigheid is voor de slachtoffers en hun nabestaanden. Om deze doelen te bereiken is de samenwerking met onze partners, zoals Maleisië en Australië, van groot belang.’

In de gesprekken met zijn collega-ministers zal minister Blok verschillende buitenlandpolitieke onderwerpen aansnijden, zoals internationale samenwerking tegen terrorisme, ook na de aanslagen in Utrecht en Christchurch in Nieuw-Zeeland. De rol van China op het wereldtoneel is bovendien een belangrijk onderwerp van gesprek, net als de Brexit en de ontwikkelingen in Afghanistan. Blok heeft ter plekke ook aandacht voor het bedrijfsleven en de intensieve economische samenwerking.

De laatste keer dat een Nederlandse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Australië bezocht was tijdens het staatsbezoek aan Australië in 2016. Premier Rutte bezocht in 2014 Maleisië. Dat bezoek stond ook in het teken van de MH17-samenwerking.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/ni ... -over-mh17
Free translation:
https://translate.google.com/

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