Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

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stratofreighter
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by stratofreighter » 13 Apr 2018, 19:16

The Dutch-language feature at
http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/verva ... 79213.html
sums up today's proceedings nicely...
Vervanging F-16's: 'Er zijn geen aantoonbare professionele fouten gemaakt'
13/04/18 om 14:09 - Bijgewerkt om 18:55
http://www.airnieuws.nl/phregister/499/499.html updates per 02 Okt 2018: LOTS of Dutch Aviation news(photo) updates... . ;)

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sn26567
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by sn26567 » 22 Apr 2018, 18:56

Similar discussions in Germany? From Travel Wire News:

Germany shouldn’t buy the F-35, Europe needs military independence, says Airbus Defence CEO

The CEO of Airbus Defence urged Europe to keep its military independence and warned Germany not to procure F-35s from the US, arguing it would kill the Franco-German effort to build their own fifth-generation jet.

As soon as Germany becomes an F-35 nation, cooperation on all combat aircraft issues with France is dead,” Dirk Hoke, the CEO of Airbus Defence and Space at Airbus Group, told Welt am Sonntag newspaper.

Europe needs to define its sovereignty more clearly and state that we need to remain independent in defence and space,” Hoke said, referring to the joint Franco-German project to develop a fifth-generation fighter, according to the newspaper.

France and Germany unveiled plans to develop a next-generation European fighter jet in July of last year. While little is known about the new plane’s layout and features, it is understood the jet would replace the Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon, rival fourth-generation jets that compete on international markets.

The CEO’s comments come on the heels of a debate in Germany over the purchase of Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet. The German Air Force is considering replacement options for its ageing Panavia Tornado – designed and brought to service during the Cold War – but finding suitable options has proved difficult.

Some military chiefs, like Air Force Commander General Karl Muellner, advocate buying the F-35, while government officials favour an upgraded version of Joint Strike Fighter’s European contender – the Eurofighter Typhoon. Though no official tender has been announced so far, a contract to replace the German Tornadoes is believed expected to be completed by around 2030.

The F-35 – the most expensive defence programme in the world so far – gained notoriety for its major setbacks, including reports on reliability issues, and faulty avionics, software, fire control systems and safety equipment.

Despite this, Australia, Israel, Italy, and Japan have already received deliveries of the aircraft. The US Air Force is the biggest F-35 operator. Recently, it was reported that the USAF may be forced to dramatically cut its F-35 fleet after concluding that costs over the next decade will be running at almost 38 percent over planned budget.
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lumumba
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by lumumba » 17 Jun 2018, 21:28

This is a very good article but in Dutch I'm totaly agree here.
It worthwhile to invest in a new European project instead of a plane that is ready to fly with small benefits for or industry....

https://www.demorgen.be/politiek/noodla ... -baccf7d6/
Hasta la victoria siempre.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 17 Jun 2018, 21:41

Don't be more of a fool than you must. A new European project is a good idea but can never be an answer to the current need. Even if the Belgian F-16's can live longer than originally planned (and that is a technical discussion on which I can have no opinion), they can never last until such a project is realised. Even the F-35 is unripe, as yet.

PS we are requested to use ENGLISH here. "I'm totaly agree" is NOT English...

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lumumba
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by lumumba » 17 Jun 2018, 21:52

I'm totally agree...is that correct?!

To continue the debate we can ask France to lease some Rafale and ask the protection of France the time the plane is ready .
I think you have to look at an European project has a European army it can even be that we don't need fighters anymore.
In a total project it coud be completely different not every country has to have a complete army a bit like Airbus Industry etc...

Anyway if the EU want to exist really like a big nation to compete with the others we have no choice it will take time but that's the only solution!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

eurojet
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by eurojet » 18 Jun 2018, 12:25

for those who can read Dutch, very interesting article on the topic in Knack today .. We may end of in a good ols school Belgian "wafelijzer" decision .. but for the public finances, bad for the airforce and a new token that this country is de-facto a confederation already ...

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/f-35- ... 62511.html

Boavida
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by Boavida » 06 Oct 2018, 14:12

Article on Forbes:
Why Belgium's Pick Of Its Next Fighter Is Pivotal For Europe's Future Security

During the Middle Ages, when the area around modern-day Belgium was a patchwork of contending fiefdoms, Flanders was the heartland of the tournament culture in which knights would compete to prove their warrior skills. As historian Jonathan Phillips observes, "The need for contingents of knights from different regions to meet up and learn how to co-ordinate operations with each other could prove invaluable on crusade."

Much has changed in the Low Countries during the intervening millennium, but the need of allies to hone their warfighting skills and practice fighting in coalitions has not. Belgians may understand this better than any other people on Earth, because their country -- which became independent in 1830 -- has repeatedly been a battleground for neighboring states. The Belgians have learned to believe deeply in the value of collective security.

So Belgium's capital of Brussels is the headquarters of both the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the European Union. Together, these two institutions have allowed the kingdom to become one of the wealthiest, most peaceful nations in the world, with a standard of living few others can match. All you have to do is look at the country's history, though, to see how easily things can go awry.

Image

Against that backdrop, the Belgian government is currently approaching a final decision on which of several tactical aircraft will be its next-generation fighter. The main choice seems to be between America's F-35 fighter and an indigenous European fighter called the Typhoon. Companies involved in making both aircraft contribute to my think tank and/or are consulting clients.

The two planes are very different. The U.S. F-35 has a single engine and is stealthy, meaning invisible of radar. The Typhoon is a twin-engine plane that is not stealthy. Just knowing those two facts would tell any aerospace expert that the Typhoon is less survivable in wartime and more expensive to maintain. The version of the F-35 Belgium is considering buying was conceived to be no more expensive to build and operate than the Cold War F-16s it will replace.

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Belgium itself has operated several dozen F-16s for four decades, and thus knows the companies that built the plane well. They are the same companies that have built the F-35 -- Lockheed Martin integrates the airframe, United Technologies unit Pratt & Whitney produces the engine. After 9,000 flight tests without a single mishap, it is clear they have built a worthy successor to the F-16. The F-35 greatly out-performs legacy fighters in key missions and basic functionality.

Most importantly, F-35 is the only aircraft currently being produced anywhere that is invisible to Russian radars. It thus is the sole plane available to NATO allies that will be able to fly unimpeded in Eastern European air space during the early days of a future East-West war, suppressing enemy air defenses, destroying hostile aircraft, and blunting the advance of attacking ground forces. Other fighters, including Typhoon, would likely suffer horrific losses trying to accomplish these goals.

So if the Belgian government's choice of a future fighter were based solely on operational merit, the decision would be easy to make. But Belgium is also a founding member of the European Union, and its capital hosts the European Parliament. Given recent transatlantic frictions, some players may call for a "European" solution to the fighter requirement, even if it is inferior in price and performance.

That kind of thinking is dangerous. All of the original partners on F-35 except Australia were NATO countries, including several of Belgium's neighbors. The United Kingdom, for instance, plans to buy 138 F-35s; BAE Systems, Britain's biggest defense contractor, is a key contributor to F-35 even though it also participates in Typhoon. Like the knights that jousted in Flanders long ago, Belgian military leaders need to think about how they best could contribute to a wartime coalition.

Obviously, purchasing an American fighter would help defuse complaints that Europeans spend too little on their own defense. But there are other compelling reasons for buying the more survivable F-35. It is the only plane in the competition equipped to carry the tactical nuclear weapons that deter aggression from the East -- a role in which Belgium's air force has long participated. And it is the fighter other countries such as South Korea and Israel have chosen when contemplating their own demanding defense needs.

There is a reason why the F-35 has never lost a competition to other fighters, and it has nothing to do with the charm of U.S. leaders. The plane is truly revolutionary, unlike anything Russia or other potential adversaries are likely to have before mid-century. Given the central role that Belgium plays in NATO and the European Union, it is important that Brussels send a message it believes in the durability of the Atlantic Alliance and the future of collective security by picking the best plane for assuring the continent's future security.

As for the companies offering the F-35, they need to leverage their deep roots in Belgian industry to deliver an industrial solution that works well for Flanders, Wallonia and the entire Belgian state. The companies say they have identified numerous technology projects in which Belgian industry can participate if Brussels picks the F-35. That better be so, because one thing NATO doesn't need is for a key member of the alliance to pick a next-generation fighter incapable of matching the performance of aircraft operated by other allies.
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomp ... d96953ebf4

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sn26567
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by sn26567 » 06 Oct 2018, 15:42

That article is clearly written by an American supporter of the F-35. No doubt that the F-35 is an excellent fighter jet, but are its stealth properties written in stone? I'm sure that one will find a way to detect such so-called stealth aeroplanes in the future.

And if Europe is compelled within NATO to buy American planes, why is the opposite not true? The US could have bought A330MRTT tanker aircraft, but reversed its position to buy less efficient, older and not proven B767s, sorry, KC-45s.
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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 06 Oct 2018, 15:47

Code: Select all

s/supporter/lobbyist/
This is from the US, remember? And if you want to know the difference: lobbyists get paid.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by cathay belgium » 06 Oct 2018, 23:15

Hi,

On a note it is proven! that Russia will develop radar that can catch F35 within two years, so stealth is only stealth for less developed enemies,... In such case why replace thé F16 anyway :)
F35 can't dogfight, in such case... Why go for An advance expensive fighter... ?
If you don't need thé advanced ones for our enemies of now, and it's useless for thé enemies of tomorrow..

Want real nowadays power, don't invest in planes but in own energy supplies, hit them where it Hurt...
In case of Trump, want to deal with horrible Vladi ?
Be friends with them,... Maybe they listen when you don't need them anymore...

Learn a bit of geopolitics and you learn ...

CXB
New types 2018 : AN140-B1900D-Bell212-Bergfalke4-B772LR
Planned new types in 2018 : YAK42

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sn26567
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by sn26567 » 11 Oct 2018, 23:02

The Pentagon grounds the F-35 fighter jet in order to inspect the fleet in the wake of a crash last month in South Carolina.
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stratofreighter
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by stratofreighter » 21 Oct 2018, 10:24

https://www.reuters.com/article/belgium ... SL2N1WV11Y
October 19, 2018 / 6:30 PM / 2 days ago

Belgium seen picking Lockheed F-35 over Eurofighter

Belgium is likely to decide which fighter jet to buy to replace its ageing F-16s
by the end of this month,
several sources have told Reuters,
and industry experts expect it to pick Lockheed Martin’s F-35 over the Eurofighter Typhoon.

The multi-billion dollar decision, widely watched in the aerospace industry,
had been expected in July before the NATO summit in Brussels.

It was postponed due to Belgian local elections last Sunday
and concern about a report
suggesting the life of the existing F-16 fleet could have been extended.

Washington extended the terms of the F-35 bid
for 34 fighter jets by two weeks through Oct. 31, 2018 at Brussels’ request,
U.S. sources said,
adding that any further delay would trigger changes in pricing.

No comment was available from the Belgian defence ministry
but official sources have indicated
that a decision on the choice of warplane is likely this month.
...and
https://www.reuters.com/article/belgium ... SL2N1WV11Y
has much more...
http://www.airnieuws.nl/phregister/499/499.html updates per 02 Okt 2018: LOTS of Dutch Aviation news(photo) updates... . ;)

DIBO
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Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by DIBO » 21 Oct 2018, 17:34

HLN: https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/-k ... /#comments (dutch only)
HLN wrote:"The choice (F35) has been made; the PM is looking for the best way to communicate the decision"

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