Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 04 May 2018, 15:14

lumumba wrote:
04 May 2018, 13:48
The EU will do nothing for the moment because public opinion is so against the EU for the moment they will be paralysed.The commission will act very carefully for the moment knowing the anti European feeling that is present for the moment and that's a good thing it will save Alitalia.
Obviously contradicted:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-3501_en.htm

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 04 May 2018, 15:35

Passenger wrote:
04 May 2018, 15:14
lumumba wrote:
04 May 2018, 13:48
The EU will do nothing for the moment because public opinion is so against the EU for the moment they will be paralysed.The commission will act very carefully for the moment knowing the anti European feeling that is present for the moment and that's a good thing it will save Alitalia.
Obviously contradicted:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-3501_en.htm
But nothing happened yet and they will do there job but in a way or another they they will find a solution not to interfere in the process ...because the reasons I give before.
Anyway time will tell.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 04 May 2018, 16:06

lumumba wrote:
04 May 2018, 15:35
Passenger wrote:
04 May 2018, 15:14
lumumba wrote:
04 May 2018, 13:48
The EU will do nothing for the moment because public opinion is so against the EU for the moment they will be paralysed.The commission will act very carefully for the moment knowing the anti European feeling that is present for the moment and that's a good thing it will save Alitalia.
Obviously contradicted:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-3501_en.htm
But nothing happened yet and they will do there job but in a way or another they they will find a solution not to interfere in the process ...because the reasons I give before.
Anyway time will tell.
Read the French text then, if you don't understand the English version:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-3501_fr.htm
That press release clearly contradicts your statement that the EC is afraid of doing something because of some kind of "...anti European feeling..."

Alitalia cannot be saved anymore: they are under liquidation. Sure, sooner or later someone will buy what is left. But with that EC press release of 23th April 2018, it's obvious that the state aid will have to be paid back to Italy by the one who buys what's left.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 04 May 2018, 16:33

I read it ...but till now nothing happened and like I said before they will find a way to let the process go on because the reasons I mentioned.
But like I said also before time will tell.

If today Italy lose his national airline because the EU and don't give EU much chances to survive,after the Brexit the Italexit etc....

One of the arguments from my Italian friends and economist is that Italy is the fifth country in the world with the most tourists.
This is a pillar in the Italian economy it needs a own airlines what I understand is that Italy will never let Alitalia go down.
And that is a good think let's stop this ultra liberal Europe.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by nordikcam » 04 May 2018, 17:35

I would not understand that the EU has a different policy with an Italian airline because there would be a lot of tourists in Italy? Two weights, two measures ? Malev: out and Alitalia in? Ridiculous!

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Yuqu12 » 05 May 2018, 10:09

Indeed, the EU won't be able to justify towards other countries (f.e. Estonia with Estonian Air) that they let Alitalia do their thing, maybe because of the tourism there, whlist other airlines went bankrupt because of the EU policy. That would be discrimination based on nationality, which is prohibited by the EU Treaties.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by cathay belgium » 05 May 2018, 10:24

Hi,

Lets face it europe has to change ! May Alitalia the first step hahaha

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 05 May 2018, 10:37

The European Commission is no judicial tribunal with a power to decide instantly immediately that the loan is state aid or legal aid. The European Commissioner cannot order instantly immediately that Alitalia must repay 600m + 300m to Italy. This must be the result of a thorough investigation - hence the EC openend an "in-depth investigation".

That announcement (23/04/2018) is very bad news for both Italy and for Alitalia 's three liquidators (special administrators): they know what usually happens when the EC opens an in-depth investigation.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-3501_en.htm

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 05 May 2018, 17:35

Anyway let's hope Alitalia survive it this could be indeed the start of a new policy in the EU....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 05 May 2018, 17:48

Forget it. FORGET IT!!! EU did not review/forgo their policy for a nice new young member like Estonia - and rightly so - why should they be more tolerant for a founding member state? As has been said before, there is only one option left now, and it is taking its course.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 05 May 2018, 17:49

lumumba wrote:
05 May 2018, 17:35
Anyway let's hope Alitalia survive it this could be indeed the start of a new policy in the EU....
Most people want Alitalia to survive, but it cannot survive in its present format, with a bloated workforce, powerful unions and government protection. It MUST reorganise, and only a takeover under strict conditions can guarantee some future for the airline. The past experience has shown the limits of a self-rule, and even of an uncontrolled partial takeover by Etihad.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by cathay belgium » 06 May 2018, 08:47

Hi,

Indeed Alitalia must me transformered !
But seeing what became of BUD after Malev, wizzair and only LOT flights to NYC ?
Look at ourselves what Lufthansa transformed our pride in an Eurowings body ( soon not any hope left , a Belgian touch will only be the derving of a Stella at max )...
With FR already strong I don’t think that politics are that strong to change without a decent option for Alitalia.
Don’t forget that the european feelings are very very minimum now, 5 stelle and nationalism partjes are in the chairs now and they don’t like Europe that much !

Will see ,...

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 17 May 2018, 23:22

The 5-Star Movement and the League, the two parties which are currently discussing the formation of a new Italian government, want to block the sale of Alitalia.

Really?

I'm sure the European Commission will be very happy :cry: :| :x
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 18 May 2018, 00:29

sn26567 wrote:
17 May 2018, 23:22
The 5-Star Movement and the League, the two parties which are currently discussing the formation of a new Italian government, want to block the sale of Alitalia.

Really?

I'm sure the European Commission will be very happy :cry: :| :x
But they don't care about the Commission and there are right. (In there programme they even want to leave the EU)
I mean it's not black or white I understand it's not fare to other airlines but you can not break a company like that sure with so much experience.
You can be liberal but not ultra liberal this is a wider discussion about how to Liberal the EU becomes.
Sure here Alitalia is very important for the tourist industry in Italy.

This two political parties are ready to leave the EU believe the Commission will think twice before they move!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 18 May 2018, 01:35

lumumba wrote:
18 May 2018, 00:29
sn26567 wrote:
17 May 2018, 23:22
The 5-Star Movement and the League, the two parties which are currently discussing the formation of a new Italian government, want to block the sale of Alitalia. Really?I'm sure the European Commission will be very happy :cry: :| :x
But they don't care about the Commission and there are right. (In there programme they even want to leave the EU)
Get your facts right please. M5S and Liga Nord don't want to leave the EU. They are eurosceptical. Example for M5S: "Crediamo che il mercato unico non debba essere smantellato, bensì riformato tenendo conto delle esigenze dei cittadini".

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 18 May 2018, 09:00

Passenger wrote:
18 May 2018, 01:35
lumumba wrote:
18 May 2018, 00:29
sn26567 wrote:
17 May 2018, 23:22
The 5-Star Movement and the League, the two parties which are currently discussing the formation of a new Italian government, want to block the sale of Alitalia. Really?I'm sure the European Commission will be very happy :cry: :| :x
But they don't care about the Commission and there are right. (In there programme they even want to leave the EU)
Get your facts right please. M5S and Liga Nord don't want to leave the EU. They are eurosceptical. Example for M5S: "Crediamo che il mercato unico non debba essere smantellato, bensì riformato tenendo conto delle esigenze dei cittadini".
In the program of Lega nord it's clearly inside and with the 5 star party it's mentioned if necessary...
Sure it's more complex and I hope Italiexit will not happen but they will save Alitalia...
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by cathay belgium » 18 May 2018, 10:46

Hi,

:D :D :D I always said so ,... Logics don't apply to Italy !

Alitalia is only dead when it is burried and don't come crawling out of thé grave after a month of six !

It isn't nice and beautiful but that she is !

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 24 May 2018, 23:16

Alitalia headquarters were raided by Italian law enforcement as part of an open case investigating premeditated bankruptcy. Documents and computers were seized by authorities.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 30 May 2018, 23:23

Alitalia has the right to recover the London Heathrow slots at any time at the same price until 2026, according to Italy’s Commissioner Luigi Gubitosi. The slots were sold to Etihad in July 2016 for US$46 million.

In unrelated news, Italy released the names of the Alitalia and Etihad executives under investigation for fraudulent bankruptcy due to the collapse of Alitalia. The executives are Silvano Cassano, Luca Cordero di Montezemolo and Cramer Ball, who served at the top of one of the two airlines between January 2015 until May 2017. James Hogan is not under investigation.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn-remember » 31 May 2018, 23:26

I am not sure the investigation of the three top managers will help in any way find a solution.
The only collateral damage I can see is bringing additional hesitation from any potential/future actor/investor.
..
Trying to analyse the pit AZ find themselves in from a broader view, it's of course complex but my take is that the EURO currency is not (was not) up to expectations regarding the Italian economy (but not solely). Strong currency brings low interest rates and easy borrowing inflates the debt burden while costs/prices/salaries are kept high. How can Italy compete with cheap manufacturing countries like Turkey or China ? On the other hand Italy cannot compete like Germany does, produce high added value goods and services in big numbers. Sooo, unfortunately, its a Greece v.2 scenario unfolding with Germany trusting those economies. Sad because the european currency was IMHO ill conceived from the start and nobody saw it coming that there would be such loosers.
.
Disclaimer : I am not an economist ..

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