Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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sounilr21
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sounilr21 » 03 Sep 2019, 15:52

sn26567 wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 15:32
sounilr21 wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 12:55
Will the SFB got a "new" outside SN livery (eurowohite) or just a cabin fit ?
The Eurowings livery is quite fresh. I doubt it will be removed (remember: "Savings"!). And if it is changed, it will probably be a basic Eurowhite with minimal Brussels Airlines features: the titles and the tail. Reboot = savings!
Thanks. Yes it's logical.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 18 Oct 2019, 13:42

DeltaWiskey wrote:
02 Aug 2019, 22:34
@crew1990:
Outgoing
SFM-N-O-V have already left the fleet.

SFY will leave this month. SFW will leave in November. SNG in December. SFU early 2020.
SFZ in 2021 and SFT in 2022.

....
I flew back from Accra yesterday with SFW.
Someone a few seat rows in font of mine said he read that Whiskey was to be retired by the end of this month.

Then that would have been my "last whiskey" as my next week trip is postponed, leaving an odd chance to fly her on to OUA the week after.
Anybody to confirm this "early" retirement? Well, after 24.9 years of good service of course.

Her MSN 82 makes OO-SFW the oldest A330, after two Cathay Dragons. Though they seem to fly short routes so may have high cycles but possibly lower hours.

H.A.

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by BrightCedars » 21 Oct 2019, 08:02

DeltaWiskey wrote:
02 Aug 2019, 22:34
SNG in December.
Is that an A320 or a typo for an A330?

Will the 3x A330-200 be replaced by newer birds or does the fleet shrink?

A321Lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by A321Lufthansa » 21 Oct 2019, 17:07

sn26567 wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 15:32
sounilr21 wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 12:55
Will the SFB got a "new" outside SN livery (eurowohite) or just a cabin fit ?
The Eurowings livery is quite fresh. I doubt it will be removed (remember: "Savings"!). And if it is changed, it will probably be a basic Eurowhite with minimal Brussels Airlines features: the titles and the tail. Reboot = savings!
Is there any news about it?

DeltaWiskey
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 18:33

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by DeltaWiskey » 23 Oct 2019, 20:38

BrightCedars wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 08:02
DeltaWiskey wrote:
02 Aug 2019, 22:34
SNG in December.
Is that an A320 or a typo for an A330?

Will the 3x A330-200 be replaced by newer birds or does the fleet shrink?
It is not a typo.
SFU (A330-200) will be replaced with SFH (A330-300). 2 A332 remain then in the fleet, SFZ and SFT. Which will also be replaced with A330-300 in due time, but this is not included in the current refleet program.

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Atlantis
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Brussels Airlines future long haul and medium haul fleet

Post by Atlantis » 25 Oct 2019, 00:12

An interesting topic regarding the "leaking" reboot plan.

As we know, they would like to shrink the fleet. Normal thinking people knows that this is about the European flights.

We know that for the first three years we don't have to expect anything. But my curiosity is also about the mother company. They own SN for the full 100%. Still they decided very unexpected that SN has to be on their own feet, also regarding to finance their own future fleet. How this contract is made? What are the modalities?

E. G. LOT Polish airlines who is part of Star can buy a lot of new B787-8 and B787-9. They are owned by the government and a huge private company. SN owned by big Luftie is receiving nothing...

To come back in the future. The performance of the current long haul fleet is not good. This means extra costs and losing pax. This means also to look for other options.

The Airbus 330-300 is too big for quite some African destinations.
The B787-8 or the B787-9 could be a better option. They can have less pax on board but this plane can fly even further then the current SN long haul fleet. This opens alternatives for other destinations.

As CS confirmed to member Andre that the A321 would be a perfect plane for them, this could be the solution for those tine African lines. This A321 can be used also for the Tel Aviv flights like in the time of Sabena. That flight was always full. Even Cairo can be added.

Maybe South Africa could become in the range of the B787-8.

But also important is extremely good contacts with other Star Alliance partners, code share, JV, etc.

But the Belgian politics has to help in this. Without agreements, nothing will change.

This costs money. Agree. But if you fly with old material, cancel flights, losing pax, then it will cost you even more. Have the guts to invest, have an aggressive plan to enter Africa bcs this is really the future continent. Asia is not stable for the moment, so stay away from it. Africa was and is the future for SN. In the past we had the best Boeing mechanics in the world at BRU. That center should here again. Especially that so many long haul airlines are flying with all types of the Boeing 787 to BRU.

This is a thought. Long haul planes will be smaller in seats but better filled. And new material.

VoloperTe
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Re: Brussels Airlines future long haul and medium haul fleet

Post by VoloperTe » 25 Oct 2019, 09:55

Hi Atlantis,

Thanks for this new topic ! I repeat what i said before, SN must keep a 100% Airbus fleet in the future !! For European network and some destinations like Tel Aviv St Petersburg and Moscow, a mix of A220-100 and A320-200 or newer A320neo it's perfect !
For Africa i think a mix of A330-300 and A321LR and to USA&Canada clearly A330-300.

In Africa what are the most popular destinations? What are the average fill rates ??

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 27 Oct 2019, 15:16

airbuske wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 21:34
A321Lufthansa wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 13:23
DannyVDB wrote:
28 Aug 2019, 07:42
OO-SFG seems to come back to BRU today ...
It is already planned to fly to Accra today but that seems a bit optimistic to me ...
See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfg

Which bird will be next to get the new interior?

Cheers
Danny
Which one is the next? SFC, SFF or SFX?
OO-SFB ;)

And said SFB is currently on her way back to EBBR.
OO-SFB Back 20191027.png
She has been out for more than 7 weeks so I hope she'll have the new interior.
Due to fly SN277 to ACC tomorrow 28OCT.

Her next rotation will be to DSS on Tuesday which probably (hopefully) means a seat change for me but I will not complain about this one ;)

H.A.

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by DannyVDB » 27 Oct 2019, 20:27

It seems they are already shrinking the short/medium haul fleet right now.

Not surprisingly since the winter season started and TC is not existing anymore.

According to https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/brussels

- Czech Airlines planes are gone (I think originally part of those were meant to stay year round)
- EW/Germanwings plane is gone too
- One CRJ-900 less (4 instead of 5)
- OO-SSC - Stored in BOD
- OO-SNG - Maintenance in LJU, but leaving the fleet soon
- OO-SNM - Maintenance in LJU (but seems to come back)

Bel33
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Bel33 » 27 Oct 2019, 21:36

CRJ: Nantes is stopped
SSC is stored each year during winter

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 » 27 Oct 2019, 22:52

Bel33 wrote:
27 Oct 2019, 21:36
SSC is stored each year during winter
thus, no aircraft to show that SN is part of the Star Alliance? Bad example...
André
ex Sabena #26567

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Inquirer » 28 Oct 2019, 07:27

yet the logo is displayed next to the entry door of each plane.

But I agree: it would be smarter to have a plane in STAR colours actually flying, ideally one of their big ones even, because on the intercontinental routes, they are a far more valuable asset to STAR then on regional routes in Europe.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by PttU » 28 Oct 2019, 07:33

Inquirer wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 07:27
But I agree: it would be smarter to have a plane in STAR colours actually flying, ideally one of their big ones even, because on the intercontinental routes, they are a far more valuable asset to STAR then on regional routes in Europe.
But where is the alliance a valuable asset to SN?

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MD-11forever
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by MD-11forever » 28 Oct 2019, 08:35

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
27 Oct 2019, 15:16
airbuske wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 21:34
A321Lufthansa wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 13:23

Which one is the next? SFC, SFF or SFX?
OO-SFB ;)

And said SFB is currently on her way back to EBBR.
This morning, OO-SFX left as SN9905 to Amman

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by convair » 28 Oct 2019, 12:29

It's all very well to say the B787 and/or the A321 would be better fits for SN. However, I would like to see their comparative rent and operation costs with those of the current A330s.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba » 28 Oct 2019, 12:58

convair wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 12:29
It's all very well to say the B787 and/or the A321 would be better fits for SN. However, I would like to see their comparative rent and operation costs with those of the current A330s.
For sure that's a good argument.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by PttU » 28 Oct 2019, 13:54

And the price of changing: re-certification of pilots, technics,...

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Atlantis » 28 Oct 2019, 15:27

convair wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 12:29
It's all very well to say the B787 and/or the A321 would be better fits for SN. However, I would like to see their comparative rent and operation costs with those of the current A330s.

You have to invest in the future. It costs, for sure. But it costs also if your planes are all the time on the ground, re-booking, hotels. And you are flying with very old birds which costs you in fuel. Newer ones are much more fuel efficient.

And look at what your competition in flying with to Africa....

If you stand still and all the time think that tomorrow will be better, you lose

So put aside this very narrow Belgian way of thinking and dare to invest in something new

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by nordikcam » 28 Oct 2019, 15:45

Atlantis wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 15:27

So put aside this very narrow Belgian way of thinking and dare to invest in something new
It is the Germans who drive SN and not the narrow-minded spirit of any Belgian, right?

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by PttU » 28 Oct 2019, 16:43

If you want to invest in something new, you need the money to invest. If you need a loan for that money, and your profitability is only around 1%, you might pay more in interest for that loan than the savings they would bring.
As I heard the reboot-plan, it was about making more profit first and to make investments afterwards. So we can talk, discuss and dream about investments, but I'm afraid the chances they will happen are rather small.

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