Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[Duke]

D-AIKM flew FRA DUS today before transfer to SN

Ath the moment it is painted in the old LH livery with yellow crane on the tail.
Curious to see if we'll see yet another hybrid livery if it comes to SN...

[nordikcam]

Are you sure it will not return to LH after maintenance and operate for them until the summer season? I read somewhere that it will become operational for SN in the course of (mid-) 2025 only, just like the previous one (that was early June).

D

Maybe not the best "source"...but Google indicates on europeanairlinefleets the transfer to SN...maybe not immediately !

[Delta Sierra]

Are you sure it will not return to LH after maintenance and operate for them until the summer season? I read somewhere that it will become operational for SN in the course of (mid-) 2025 only, just like the previous one (that was early June).

D

Normally D-AIKM will be phased-in end February / beginning March

[Homo Aeroportus]

Greetings from freezing Jozy.
I had to cut short on the Africa Aerospace and Defence exhibition and airshow today. 8 degrees at Waterkloof AFB, rain drizzle and 25kt winds ! And even colder now back at FAOR.

During the ACI Conferences this week, my Ghanaian colleague in the Committee said that SN informed him last month of a possible additional weekly frequency at DGAA/ACC as from the next summer schedule. Not clear whether this means possible “de-triangular” of LFW/ABJ though.

H.A.

[Atlantis]

A bit disappointed nothing is mentioned since March on new routes to the US with star Alliance partners... No details on this US Africa hub seem to have leaked...

To create this African hub doesn't mean that this year or next year there will be new US or Canadian destinations. UA and AC are growing together with SN. This means that first their seasonal flights, second daily of Newark and Toronto, will become year round. This brings already a lot of growth and pax. Second phase is maybe a bigger plane for that route. Third phase is a new destination and then it will be already 2026 when the 12th A330 of SN will be there and some new planes for UA and AC.

By that time the second long haul wave, afternoon, should be established.

[Atlantis]

I see for the near future quite a lot of capacity for Africa. 3 extra A330's we know. But if SN will leave the flights of JFK and IAD to UA it means 2 extra planes for Africa.

Which one can be a single destination in Africa? For sure Kinshasa and Dakar. But others? Not so sure if they can fill an A330 for some other destinations. Meaning others can be for new destinations and one as a spare? Just loud thinking and guessing at this moment.

[Conti764]

I see for the near future quite a lot of capacity for Africa. 3 extra A330's we know. But if SN will leave the flights of JFK and IAD to UA it means 2 extra planes for Africa.

Which one can be a single destination in Africa? For sure Kinshasa and Dakar. But others? Not so sure if they can fill an A330 for some other destinations. Meaning others can be for new destinations and one as a spare? Just loud thinking and guessing at this moment.

Is dropping JFK a real plan? It's not a UA hub, so it should be a W-pattern (yes, I've learned something on this forum ), and I don't know how keen UA would be at flying transatlantic from another NYC airport...

[Atlantis]

I see for the near future quite a lot of capacity for Africa. 3 extra A330's we know. But if SN will leave the flights of JFK and IAD to UA it means 2 extra planes for Africa.

Which one can be a single destination in Africa? For sure Kinshasa and Dakar. But others? Not so sure if they can fill an A330 for some other destinations. Meaning others can be for new destinations and one as a spare? Just loud thinking and guessing at this moment.

Is dropping JFK a real plan? It's not a UA hub, so it should be a W-pattern (yes, I've learned something on this forum ), and I don't know how keen UA would be at flying transatlantic from another NYC airport...

No idea at all if they consider to drop JFK. Personal opinion, I would never do that, it's really the nr 1 long haul from BRU. OK, i know that the money is in the same pot, but still if you can fly it yourself, I would do that. And I keep having in mind to have that JFK evening flight from BRU. Maybe a possibility when in the future the waves have to move a bit

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

On this forum (based on the press-conference of SN) it was stated that "currently there are 44 planes" in the fleet (10 LH and 34 MH).

So adding next year 1 A333 and 4 Air Baltic planes would let the fleet grow to 49.

However, according to https://sites.google.com/view/europeanairlinefleets/bel there are currently 36 MH planes: 15 A319, 16 A320 and 5 A320-neo. So that's 46.

So my question is: does this mean that they will retire e.g. 2 A319 when the Air Baltic planes will come? Or will they in practice grow to 51 planes in total, i.e. keep all the current airbus planes?

Any insights on this?

Cheers,
Danny

[fcw]

So adding next year 1 A333 and 4 Air Baltic planes would let the fleet grow to 49.

The Air Baltics won’t enter the fleet, it’s a wet lease.

[lumumba]

So adding next year 1 A333 and 4 Air Baltic planes would let the fleet grow to 49.

The Air Baltics won’t enter the fleet, it’s a wet lease.

Ok but Brussels Airlines is flying with 49 planes that's the same.

[longwings]

I see for the near future quite a lot of capacity for Africa. 3 extra A330's we know. But if SN will leave the flights of JFK and IAD to UA it means 2 extra planes for Africa.

Is dropping JFK a real plan? It's not a UA hub, so it should be a W-pattern (yes, I've learned something on this forum ), and I don't know how keen UA would be at flying transatlantic from another NYC airport...

United is not re-opening JFK for a single transatlantic flight, it'll never be profitable.
United taking over IAD is less clear cut but still very unlikely. Taking over a joint-venture partner's flight is not growth at United. It depends entirely on how beneficial to United's pocketbook it is to free up an aircraft for their partner.

[oldblueeyes]

Hi all,

On this forum (based on the press-conference of SN) it was stated that "currently there are 44 planes" in the fleet (10 LH and 34 MH).

So adding next year 1 A333 and 4 Air Baltic planes would let the fleet grow to 49.

However, according to https://sites.google.com/view/europeanairlinefleets/bel there are currently 36 MH planes: 15 A319, 16 A320 and 5 A320-neo. So that's 46.

So my question is: does this mean that they will retire e.g. 2 A319 when the Air Baltic planes will come? Or will they in practice grow to 51 planes in total, i.e. keep all the current airbus planes?

Any insights on this?

Cheers,
Danny

The trick here is .... the Legacies count in available seat miles and sold seat miles, as they cover all the spectrum of the market.
to the contrary, LCC focusing on short routes and many rotations per day, count in passangers, planes - at least in press releases for the intellectual lightweights.

So, actually the real statement is that SN would increase it's available seat miles offering, although the number of (own) planes won't grow in the same rhytm.

[lumumba]

I see for the near future quite a lot of capacity for Africa. 3 extra A330's we know. But if SN will leave the flights of JFK and IAD to UA it means 2 extra planes for Africa.

Is dropping JFK a real plan? It's not a UA hub, so it should be a W-pattern (yes, I've learned something on this forum ), and I don't know how keen UA would be at flying transatlantic from another NYC airport...

United is not re-opening JFK for a single transatlantic flight, it'll never be profitable.
United taking over IAD is less clear cut but still very unlikely. Taking over a joint-venture partner's flight is not growth at United. It depends entirely on how beneficial to United's pocketbook it is to free up an aircraft for their partner.

So maybe to grow in Africa it would be better to leave JFK and ad one flight from Newark at the end?

[longwings]

So maybe to grow in Africa it would be better to leave JFK and ad one flight from Newark at the end?

Probably would be a net loss of passengers overall. I've been told many times EWR is not sufficiently well-known overseas as a New York airport to skip JFK. Doesn't help the official name is Newark Liberty International Airport, no reference to New York. Case in point, almost every foreign airline operating at EWR also operates at JFK (often with more flights or bigger aircraft), while the opposite is far from true.

Yet United makes it work...

[oldblueeyes]

Let me not agree on that.

Regular travellers to the NY airports get often bookings with the " other" airport Return.
Furthermore, all looking not for sightseeing but having business trips outside the financial sector or visiting one of the Ivy League universities prefer Newark.

And those looking for Time Squaire Photos, the Bus to Penn Station is close.

But... JFK is more of a prestige destination, like LHR. You don't give up your legacy Slots.

[crew1990]

Hi all,

On this forum (based on the press-conference of SN) it was stated that "currently there are 44 planes" in the fleet (10 LH and 34 MH).

So adding next year 1 A333 and 4 Air Baltic planes would let the fleet grow to 49.

However, according to https://sites.google.com/view/europeanairlinefleets/bel there are currently 36 MH planes: 15 A319, 16 A320 and 5 A320-neo. So that's 46.

So my question is: does this mean that they will retire e.g. 2 A319 when the Air Baltic planes will come? Or will they in practice grow to 51 planes in total, i.e. keep all the current airbus planes?

Any insights on this?

Cheers,
Danny

It should even grow to 52 this summer one extra long haul unit (11 in total), one extra medium haul unit (37 in total) and the 4 Air Baltic. The plan is to grow as fast as possible to use a maximum of slot at BRU in order to have those slot granted when the new permit will be set. It is not possible for SN to grow as fast on his own because of lake of ressources pilots, aircraft etc, this is why the 4 Air Baltic are joining to grow even faster. We can expect such a grow in the 2 following years.

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

On this forum (based on the press-conference of SN) it was stated that "currently there are 44 planes" in the fleet (10 LH and 34 MH).

So adding next year 1 A333 and 4 Air Baltic planes would let the fleet grow to 49.

However, according to https://sites.google.com/view/europeanairlinefleets/bel there are currently 36 MH planes: 15 A319, 16 A320 and 5 A320-neo. So that's 46.

So my question is: does this mean that they will retire e.g. 2 A319 when the Air Baltic planes will come? Or will they in practice grow to 51 planes in total, i.e. keep all the current airbus planes?

Any insights on this?

Cheers,
Danny

It should even grow to 52 this summer one extra long haul unit (11 in total), one extra medium haul unit (37 in total) and the 4 Air Baltic. The plan is to grow as fast as possible to use a maximum of slot at BRU in order to have those slot granted when the new permit will be set. It is not possible for SN to grow as fast on his own because of lake of ressources pilots, aircraft etc, this is why the 4 Air Baltic are joining to grow even faster. We can expect such a grow in the 2 following years.

This additional medium haul plane is new to me; they did not say anything about this in their press conference isn't it? But still the question is, do they plan to withdraw some of the current medium haul planes at the same time as adding the Air Baltic ones. Adding 5 MH planes (wet-leased or not doesn't matter) is a huge surge in capacity (10%) ...

Regarding JFK: I think some people here underestimate the importance of the Eastern part (yes made a mistake in one of my previous posts ) of New York: not everyone is going to Manhattan! I was staying last week a few days in Queens (2.8 million people) and Brooklyn (2.7 million people), these are huge. On my way back the flight was full, with many people going to Africa (and Belgium of course); but also Geneva, Frankfurt ... I was in business and it was full, several people with destination Africa decided last minute to pay for an upgrade to business (5 or 6 I could see, not sure there were still so many places free) to be able to sleep prior to go to their destination .

Furthermore, I saw the many other planes from the LHG: a A380 to Munich, a B744 or B748 to Frankfurt, a B777 to Zurich, another one from Austrian. It means JFK is important, it is not just for prestige. Whether they make a lot of money is another matter, but SN needs JFK for feeding into the African flights, only connecting via Newark would make that more difficult.

Just my 2 cents,
Danny

[longwings]

Let me not agree on that

I'm confused. Is your point that some passengers prefer EWR over JFK? I don't think anyone has ever disagreed! I'm sure some passengers would like to fly into SWF as well. That doesn't change the fact nearly all international carriers have larger operations at JFK, and prestige is certainly not the primary reason.

[oldblueeyes]

According to the open jobs on the company's website and some press rumors, it seems that SN would get the A321F fleet flying for LH cargo, from Cityline.

May also mean that A320fam is rather the forward path and not the 737MAX - which was described last week by the OS CCO as likely to go to eurowings and or Austrian.