Brussels Airlines in 2020

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rwandan-flyer
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Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Hello

I have just looked the 2020 summer network, for SN, i can't see Luanda and Freetwon. SN will also end service to Angola and Sierra Lone, after ended service to Conakry and Ouagadougou ? Montreal and Wahsington services are also canceled ?

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... il-august/

Edit: YUL and IAD should resume in 2021.

The offer will be gradually expanded from June 15 to reach 240 weekly flights in August. In Europe, a total of 45 destinations will be served in 20 countries, including Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, France and Denmark, details Brussels Airlines. For the long-haul, there will be 13 of the 17 normally insured in Africa (including two in Cameroon), subject to the approval of local authorities, and New York JFK, in the United States. Montreal, Canada, which should have joined the program last March, will do so sometime in 2021. https://translate.google.fr/translate?h ... a-fin-aout

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

And where are FRA, MUC, ZRH on the map ?

Duke
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Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Duke »

rwandan-flyer wrote:
25 May 2020, 16:38
I have just looked the 2020 summer network, for SN, i can't see Luanda and Freetwon. SN will also end service to Angola and Sierra Lone, after ended service to Conakry and Ouagadougou ? Montreal and Wahsington services are also canceled ?
I've never understood the Luanda situation.
Luanda seems to be a high yield, oil related destination, with up to 3 weekly rotations.
But the return flight always routed via Kinshasa, which might be a nice experience the first time, but results in a huge time loss for business people on this flight. At least AF has (had?) direct flights, so in that way it was more competitive (don't know about ticket prices though...)
At the same time, people traveling to Kinshasa are often forced to fly via Luanda, and then head back to Kinshasa, making the flight about 3 hours longer than the direct flight to Kinshasa...
If the flight would have been direct, I guess it would have attracted more business passengers...
Regards,

Duke

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

Duke wrote:
25 May 2020, 17:17
rwandan-flyer wrote:
25 May 2020, 16:38
I have just looked the 2020 summer network, for SN, i can't see Luanda and Freetwon. SN will also end service to Angola and Sierra Lone, after ended service to Conakry and Ouagadougou ? Montreal and Wahsington services are also canceled ?
I've never understood the Luanda situation.
Luanda seems to be a high yield, oil related destination, with up to 3 weekly rotations.
But the return flight always routed via Kinshasa, which might be a nice experience the first time, but results in a huge time loss for business people on this flight. At least AF has (had?) direct flights, so in that way it was more competitive (don't know about ticket prices though...)
At the same time, people traveling to Kinshasa are often forced to fly via Luanda, and then head back to Kinshasa, making the flight about 3 hours longer than the direct flight to Kinshasa...
If the flight would have been direct, I guess it would have attracted more business passengers...
Regards,

Duke
True I think it's difficult to fill a plane to Brussels from Luanda anyway, from Frankfurt the connections are so much higher and it's working.
That's why a A321LR should be perfect to Luanda.
By the way Air France is doing the same with Kinshasa and Brazzaville but it's more logic.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

LJ
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by LJ »

Duke wrote:
25 May 2020, 17:17
I've never understood the Luanda situation.
Luanda seems to be a high yield, oil related destination, with up to 3 weekly rotations.Duke
AFAIK Luanda was/is high yield, but also high costs. Not many crews stay overnight (KLM flew to LAD, remained on the ground for 10 -15 hours and the same crew flew the aircraft back to AMS, AF still does that). The cost is enourmous and yields have been dropping as the oil business isn't booming anymore. A triangular flight is cheaper. Another alternative would be a tag, which KLM ultimately did (WDH).

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

I thought I understood that there would be SN flights on FRA, ZRH and MUC ... did I misunderstand? Thank you

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

nordikcam wrote:
25 May 2020, 18:32
I thought I understood that there would be SN flights on FRA, ZRH and MUC ... did I misunderstand? Thank you
Those were leaks from a plan that was still under discussion. When traffic will get back from 30% to normal (some time in 2021?), we'll probably see those flights to FRA, MUC and ZRH.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

sn26567 wrote:
25 May 2020, 18:45
nordikcam wrote:
25 May 2020, 18:32
I thought I understood that there would be SN flights on FRA, ZRH and MUC ... did I misunderstand? Thank you
Those were leaks from a plan that was still under discussion. When traffic will get back from 30% to normal (some time in 2021?), we'll probably see those flights to FRA, MUC and ZRH.
Exactly. Leaking info to the press doesn't mean that it will be.
Moreover, we can still see destinations which were first announced to not come back anymore like e.g. Warsaw will be back in July.
IAD will be back after September while sb was writing that it will be 2021.

Don't forget that what was announced will be gradually out of the schedule not immediately.

Flanker2
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Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

I think that the "network" is not realistic at all.

For Africa and JFK, you need the opening of the EU borders. That's not going to happen this summer.
Ibiza and PMI are not going to host any festivals and most likely the nightlife will remain closed.
So not much else to do there except the beaches.

Beach destinations can do ok, but too much emphasize on Portugal, which is very far.
There are more options closer by.
If I were SN, I would also plan these beach routes as tag-ons, to get enough pax and yield. Now they are selling them very cheap.
If there is enough demand, you can make them direct, there is no lack of aircraft.

With this kind of network planning and yield management, SN is going to bleed.

I'm not supportive of SN getting a dime of taxpayer money so they can waste it flying half empty planes to leisure destinations so Belgians can go there and spend their money. If they get taxpayer money, they should focus on inbound travel, to boost Belgium's own tourism industry.
The Scandinavian routes are nice in those regards, but most are outbound, so...

As far as I'm concerned, LH got their 9 billions from Germany, and they own SN, so no need to give them a dime of Belgian taxpayer money.
Those 390 Millions would be better spent saving Belgium's horeca and tourism industry.

I think that the only option is to nationalize SN. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they sink 3-4 Billions into it to make it work.
The aircraft can stay grounded until there is demand and serve only inbound tourism.
Let the competitors bleed if they want to bleed.

Jetter
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Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Flanker2 wrote:
25 May 2020, 21:44
I think that the "network" is not realistic at all.

For Africa and JFK, you need the opening of the EU borders. That's not going to happen this summer.
Ibiza and PMI are not going to host any festivals and most likely the nightlife will remain closed.
So not much else to do there except the beaches.

Beach destinations can do ok, but too much emphasize on Portugal, which is very far.
There are more options closer by.
If I were SN, I would also plan these beach routes as tag-ons, to get enough pax and yield. Now they are selling them very cheap.
If there is enough demand, you can make them direct, there is no lack of aircraft.

With this kind of network planning and yield management, SN is going to bleed.
Every airline is continuing to bleed in the coming months. But planes are already payed for, staff has to be payed anyway and oil is cheap thus flying around half full planes with passengers who didn’t pay much might still be better than doing nothing. :idea:

Also many Shengen countries already have flights outside Europe so apparently that’s no problem and it’s only an issue who is on those flights. AMS already has over 20 intercontinental destinations again.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Yuqu12 »

SN has posted its destinations it wants to serve again as of 15 June. However, I've been unable to find a timetable or the frequencies to each destination on their website. Can you only find it if you had a confirmed booking for a flight after this date or will SN publish this in the next coming days?

webstermc
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Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 11:22

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by webstermc »

Yuqu12 wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:04
SN has posted its destinations it wants to serve again as of 15 June. However, I've been unable to find a timetable or the frequencies to each destination on their website. Can you only find it if you had a confirmed booking for a flight after this date or will SN publish this in the next coming days?
It is mentioned in De Standaard: https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20200525_04970626
They are adapting the reservation system. Bookings should be possible by end of this week. Afterwards, the flight offer should be visible in the systems.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Yuqu12 wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:04
SN has posted its destinations it wants to serve again as of 15 June. However, I've been unable to find a timetable or the frequencies to each destination on their website. Can you only find it if you had a confirmed booking for a flight after this date or will SN publish this in the next coming days?
From the press release:

"Currently, and until the end of the week, the reservation systems will be updated with the new network. Only then will the new schedule be reflected in all the systems".
André
ex Sabena #26567

brabel
Posts: 175
Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 10:51

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brabel »

Any news about the negotiations?
Aren't they out of money end of this week?
When can we expect some news?

lucas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2017, 15:06

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lucas »

brabel wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:46
Any news about the negotiations?
Aren't they out of money end of this week?
When can we expect some news?
I think they want to keep their progressions quiet. Otherwise, there will be too many speculations, like we have seen in the past weeks. I hope they come out with good news as soon as possible.

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

brabel wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:46
Aren't they out of money end of this week?
Brussels Airlines has denied that rumour. It was based upon a leak (to Belga) of one of the many documents that were filed on 12th May with the Belgian Social Security Authority. The document was taken out of its content, of course.

brabel wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:46
Any news about the negotiations?
Brussels Airlines announced Collective Dismissals on 12th May, so 'Wet Renault/Loi Renault' now applies. We're now in the first 30 days of 'Renault': information & consultation. The trade unions rejected the Collective Dismissals and they have replied with 100 questions. Management now legally must reply to all of them, so we won't hear from those negotiations before 12th June, I assume.

In between the above , there is the ongoing discussion about conditions for the state aid. The longer it takes, the higher the risk that Lufthansa leaves the table.

theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by theeuropean »

Remember LH is still waiting for the final nod from the EU competition authorities. There is also still no news for OS just like SN. Hopefully soon we shall know what will happen.

Flanker2
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Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

Passenger wrote:
26 May 2020, 12:27
brabel wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:46
Aren't they out of money end of this week?
Brussels Airlines has denied that rumour. It was based upon a leak (to Belga) of one of the many documents that were filed on 12th May with the Belgian Social Security Authority. The document was taken out of its content, of course.

brabel wrote:
26 May 2020, 10:46
Any news about the negotiations?
Brussels Airlines announced Collective Dismissals on 12th May, so 'Wet Renault/Loi Renault' now applies. We're now in the first 30 days of 'Renault': information & consultation. The trade unions rejected the Collective Dismissals and they have replied with 100 questions. Management now legally must reply to all of them, so we won't hear from those negotiations before 12th June, I assume.

In between the above , there is the ongoing discussion about conditions for the state aid. The longer it takes, the higher the risk that Lufthansa leaves the table.
So what if LH leaves the table?

A. They will downsize SN, spend minimal amounts of their own money to keep key routes, but open room for competitors or a new Belgian flag carrier.
B. They will not downsize SN, spend more of their own money to keep it afloat.
C. Let it go bankrupt and let it get sold to a competitor or the Belgian State.

Any other scenario that I'm missing?
In any case, I don't see any urgency for the government to intervene in any of the scenario's.

Why would the Belgian State intervene in a foreign-owned business when it has sufficient liquidities to handle it themselves, and domestic companies like AB Inbev and small businesses are in a lot of trouble and barely getting any aid?

LH is playing strip poker, already naked and bluffing with a poor hand.

Matt
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Joined: 14 Nov 2018, 09:20

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Matt »

Flanker2 wrote:
26 May 2020, 16:09

Why would the Belgian State intervene in a foreign-owned business when it has sufficient liquidities to handle it themselves, and domestic companies like AB Inbev and small businesses are in a lot of trouble and barely getting any aid?

LH is playing strip poker, already naked and bluffing with a poor hand.

Jobs. Jobs, jobs and more jobs. Like; I don't know... 20.000 total? Indirect included.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Yuqu12 »

According to Brussels Airlines on LinkedIn, they create 50.000 direct and indirect jobs.

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