Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Airbus330lover »

Passenger wrote: 11 May 2020, 23:37 The article in Le Soir, and the comments here, are bad signs. Someone mentionned on this forum "we have stupid politicians". Maybe. But what's happening here, is far worse: it's revenge and rancor (rancune) by people who are supposed to be aviation professionals and/or aviation geeks and/or responsible ministers. If it's all true what Le Soir writes, then Bernard Gustin and Alexander De Croo are putting thousands of jobs at jeopardy "to counter Spohr". And they get applause here. Sad. Really sad.

Le Soir writes - and others confirm - that Gustin wants revenge for his dismissal - and "Belgium" wants revenge "because Lufthansa got 55% for almost nothing". Sad. Really sad. And what is even worse: it's not even true. Gustin didn't leave empty handed, and Lufthansa didn't buy the 55% for 2,6M. Lufthansa bought the 55% for 82,6M or 102,6M. To the 2,6M, one must add the amount of cumulated loss at the take over moment. Debts that the old management was unable to pay, and for which Lufthansa officially signed "we will pay that debt to the creditors".
Not sure about the really accurate content of "le Soir". A contrario, the article of R Meulders (La libre) is well documented and this guy knows a lot about aviation.

Matt
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Joined: 14 Nov 2018, 09:20

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Matt »

Atlantis wrote: 11 May 2020, 22:36
Conti764 wrote: 11 May 2020, 22:02
sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2020, 21:38 6. Fleet: SN would go to an all A320 medium-haul fleet. For long-haul, the old A330s might be replaced by smaller less-polluting A321LRs to satisfy the green requirements.
SN's A330's are not that old anymore since the A330 rollover, I assume?

And I can't imagine replacing the A330's one on one since they'll need a couple to fly to Africa (cargo)...
To The States and Canada can be. Air Transat also flew already the A321LR to BRU.

And maybe certain African countries with less cargo can use the A321. More direct flights instead of triangle
Brussels Airlines A330-200's are old. around 21-22 years. those probably will get scrapped.

replacing those ( to IAD ) with an A321LR would actually be nice. If they get more than 2 A321LR's, they might actually do a BRU-JFK in the morning and evening ;) ( which would be very nice since there is a huge hole in the evening )

The A330-300's are there to stay, mainly for Africa where cargo is important. US are feeder/tourist flights

Edit:
Ideally I think Brussels Airlines must come to this: ( and this is my personal opinion )

8 A330-300 ( with option for more to expand for Africa flights in future, thinking about seeing Nairobi back )
4 A321LR: For North america destinations
10 A320 : European medium haul flights ( -6 )
8 A319 : European medium haul flights ( -14 )
7 A220-100 : regional short haul flights ( with option for more in future, I really think the A220 is the perfect fit for SN )
3 A220-300 : regional short haul flights ( with option for more in future for a swap with A319's )

With this I am scrapping 10 short haul aircraft ( unfortunately )

And finally: FULL integration in the LH/LX/OS booking system. The amount of times that I want to book a flight to Africa and they send me with LH to FRA is ridiculous. Yes, LH flies to Luanda, WHY GIVE ME THE STOPOVER IN FRA? There is a direct flight with SN !

I think this can be workable in the near future

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Darjeeling »

Regarding what was written in La Libre and other press articles:

- SN needs A330s. The version they used right now is an HGW version of the A330-300 and thus ideal for cargo. Cargo is an extremely important revenue source for SN. Both for AFI and NA. The A321LR thing is pure BS as far as SN is concerned. Too niche market oriented... and expensive. Weight limited operations were already a nightmare back in the old "A version" of the A333. But I'm pretty sure the A332s will be kicked out of the fleet prematurely. It makes sense in terms of costs.

- I don't see the nightstop disappearing. 5 years ago they tried to get rid of the VIE and TXL nightstops through the partnership with OS and EW. It was a big failed attempt. You can't run proper medium-haul ops with hub and spoke system without nightstops. Even low frills North American carrier run nightstops ops. SN isn't EasyJet, Ryanair, Transavia. They rely heavily on transfer trafic. Not the LCC. Codesharing is NEVER a solution to avoid nightstops, to some extend, joint-venture is. Why ? Because the codeshared carrier always keeps the upper hand of its seat profitability system. That's why SN is completely tricked with ZRH, FRA and MUC.

- For me (and many insiders) Gustin has never been "God". Far from it. He is popular for his so-called belgitude marketing spirit and "let's keep everyone in the same boat" BUT failed on many issues, his hybrid system included. Challenging Ryanair by upgauging the volume of seats offered dramatically decreased the yields. He was also the man who ran after the tour-operators for seasonal ops. A lot of fake publicity and advertising was made around those so-called "new destinations". We all now know that SN's serious cash problems began with T.C's bankruptcy not the coronavirus. SN has been turned into a seasonal tool, being now a nightmare to run because they have too many A320 series planes, too many crew. Gustin's growth plans were just powder in the eyes. He should have focused on mainline product with moderate but sustainable growth.
:arrow: Most of the people who will be laid off today are temporary contract employed cabin crew. They are now in deep s--- with the excess of pilots and will thus introduce forced part-time contracts. The "Reboot" part will be more than probably confirmed for the administrative and ground functions. With much damage. :?

longwings
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by longwings »

Moving Africa flights to an evening bank from BRU will not work. Not for local or European traffic, and certainly not for North American connections. For local and European traffic, the move adds a day of lost productivity for business travelers. Under the current schedule, they land in the evening and get the night in the hotel to rest. Under an evening departure from BRU, they land in the morning and will not be very productive during the day. Many will head straight to the hotel and not be seen for 24 hours. It’s even worse for connections from North America as they would have to spend the day at the airport in BRU waiting for their flight (rescheduling the trans-Atlantic flights to leave later won’t work as passengers bound for Brussels with a domestic connection in the US will have plenty of alternatives that do not involve spending 4 or 5 hours connecting in IAD, EWR, or ORD).

If Brussels Airlines switches to an evening bank for Africa flights, it will lose customers.
Inquirer wrote: 09 May 2020, 23:02 if their only reason is to feed intercontinental planes leaving in the morning, why not have those leave a few hours later so the planes feeding can go up and down in Europe first????
Is the number of transfer passengers from the US landing in the morning really that big to keep it that way?
Can those USA flights not be made to come in a bit later too then, to shift everything back by a few hours?
Moving the main connecting moment to late afternoon would give BRU an interesting selling point even as they'd be one of the few (only?) medium sized hub in Europe with evening flights to the US.
The connecting traffic from North America (don't forget Canada) is indeed "that big." Brussels would not have had six daily flights to North America without African connections. It is not because of the demand to Belgium alone that United is planning to resume three daily flights as early as July (and Frankfurt could handle all their European connections).

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Jetter wrote: 11 May 2020, 22:23
Conti764 wrote: 11 May 2020, 21:45
oldblueeyes wrote: 11 May 2020, 17:16 Thus, the question fr the future is not to catch the AF/KLM customer -> which won't be a bargain since the scalability of economics for a small player are more difficult than for a larger one, but finding the right nihe to have an economically feasable business model.
Why not offer clients an alternative to AF and KL on the flights to their overseas territories? Since they have a near monopoly on some of these routes, prices will be at the higher end.
KL doesn’t have a monopoly to any overseas territory: TUI flies everywhere in the Caribbean.
Okay, you got me there... Two airlines it is, then. Of which one airline is also a tour operator thus flying mainly to cater for that business.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Darjeeling wrote: 12 May 2020, 08:56 - SN needs A330s. The version they used right now is an HGW version of the A330-300 and thus ideal for cargo. Cargo is an extremely important revenue source for SN. Both for AFI and NA. The A321LR thing is pure BS as far as SN is concerned. Too niche market oriented... and expensive. Weight limited operations were already a nightmare back in the old "A version" of the A333. But I'm pretty sure the A332s will be kicked out of the fleet prematurely. It makes sense in terms of costs.
Does the A321LR offer opportunities for less cargo dependant routes (e.g. North America)?

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

A321LR only offer opportunities for tourist long haul flight in my opinion

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by oldblueeyes »

Matt wrote: 12 May 2020, 08:20
Atlantis wrote: 11 May 2020, 22:36
Conti764 wrote: 11 May 2020, 22:02

SN's A330's are not that old anymore since the A330 rollover, I assume?

And I can't imagine replacing the A330's one on one since they'll need a couple to fly to Africa (cargo)...
To The States and Canada can be. Air Transat also flew already the A321LR to BRU.

And maybe certain African countries with less cargo can use the A321. More direct flights instead of triangle
Brussels Airlines A330-200's are old. around 21-22 years. those probably will get scrapped.

replacing those ( to IAD ) with an A321LR would actually be nice. If they get more than 2 A321LR's, they might actually do a BRU-JFK in the morning and evening ;) ( which would be very nice since there is a huge hole in the evening )

The A330-300's are there to stay, mainly for Africa where cargo is important. US are feeder/tourist flights

Edit:
Ideally I think Brussels Airlines must come to this: ( and this is my personal opinion )

8 A330-300 ( with option for more to expand for Africa flights in future, thinking about seeing Nairobi back )
4 A321LR: For North america destinations
10 A320 : European medium haul flights ( -6 )
8 A319 : European medium haul flights ( -14 )
7 A220-100 : regional short haul flights ( with option for more in future, I really think the A220 is the perfect fit for SN )
3 A220-300 : regional short haul flights ( with option for more in future for a swap with A319's )

With this I am scrapping 10 short haul aircraft ( unfortunately )

And finally: FULL integration in the LH/LX/OS booking system. The amount of times that I want to book a flight to Africa and they send me with LH to FRA is ridiculous. Yes, LH flies to Luanda, WHY GIVE ME THE STOPOVER IN FRA? There is a direct flight with SN !

I think this can be workable in the near future
And who is gonna pay for your ideal small airline -high-complexity scheme?

Let's face reality:
- Lufthansa has no intention for the 321LR - there are rumors for the 321XLR, as the should be able to serve all airlines in the group and their interests
- there is compexity for all -> 1 long haul type and will fly wherever it fits, 1 short haul family, ideally 1 aircraft type
- there is no money in the pocket for new planes -> SN would still have to earn enough to be able to pay for them

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Boavida »

VRT reports:

SN will be cutting:

- 1000 jobs
- 10 planes (2 A330 and 8 short haul)
- 22 destinations

They also said they want to grow again after this crisis and want a long haul fleet of 12 planes in 2024. The A321LR is mentioned for this.
Last edited by Boavida on 12 May 2020, 11:21, edited 1 time in total.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

TLspotting wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:20
Boavida wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:18 VRT reports:

SN will be cutting:

- 1000 jobs
- 10 planes (2 A330 and 8 short haul)
- 22 destinations

They also said they want to grow again after this crisis and what a long haul fleet of 12 planes in 2024. The A321LR is mentioned for this.
We're on it ;)
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/05/12 ... en-minder/

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

Passenger wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:21
TLspotting wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:20
Boavida wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:18 VRT reports:

SN will be cutting:

- 1000 jobs
- 10 planes (2 A330 and 8 short haul)
- 22 destinations

They also said they want to grow again after this crisis and what a long haul fleet of 12 planes in 2024. The A321LR is mentioned for this.
We're on it ;)
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/05/12 ... en-minder/
And so are we :

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... tinations/
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

Sai
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Sai »

Boavida wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:18VRT reports:
(...)
They also said they want to grow again after this crisis and want a long haul fleet of 12 planes in 2024. The A321LR is mentioned for this.
Long haul with single aisle A321LR? Oh my :o and that's in the best scenario...

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

They will axe also 2 long haul destinations. I suppose that this can be one to Canada where now Air Canada and Air Transat are flying and one to The States?

ezis_bis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by ezis_bis »

Atlantis wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:44 They will axe also 2 long haul destinations. I suppose that this can be one to Canada where now Air Canada and Air Transat are flying and one to The States?
I would guess Toronto and Washington, as there are already Star Airlines there
But wow, such cuts.
will there be anything left?
I wonder which destinations will remain in Europe

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

ezis_bis wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:47
Atlantis wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:44 They will axe also 2 long haul destinations. I suppose that this can be one to Canada where now Air Canada and Air Transat are flying and one to The States?
I would guess Toronto and Washington, as there are already Star Airlines there
But wow, such cuts.
will there be anything left?
I wonder which destinations will remain in Europe
I presume in North America.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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HQ_BRU_Lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by HQ_BRU_Lover »

Pretty sure that quite some Thomas Cook destinations and secondary cities are in the 22 destinations to be reduced. This news is no surprise at all to me but thoughts are with the employees who are giving everything they can day and night.

Maybe I should become more local minded myself as well and always choose SN for EU-travel as of now, if that would help them.

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Sai wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:35
Boavida wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:18VRT reports:
(...)
They also said they want to grow again after this crisis and want a long haul fleet of 12 planes in 2024. The A321LR is mentioned for this.
Long haul with single aisle A321LR? Oh my :o and that's in the best scenario...
"...The A321LR is mentioned for this...". Euh: mentionned by who? By Dieter Vranckx? By a trade union delegate? By a staff member? Was it perhaps a question by a journalist outside the meeting room, after the meeting (example: some say that the A321LR would be good; what do you think?".

This is what Dieter Vranckx writes in his press release tells about "fleet":
...
The adaptation of the fleet according to the network optimization: from 54 to 38 aircraft (-30%)
...
The reduction of overhead, operational costs and the increase of operational efficiency, among others by improving productivity and further standardizing the fleet.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

ezis_bis wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:47
Atlantis wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:44 They will axe also 2 long haul destinations. I suppose that this can be one to Canada where now Air Canada and Air Transat are flying and one to The States?
I would guess Toronto and Washington, as there are already Star Airlines there
But wow, such cuts.
will there be anything left?
I wonder which destinations will remain in Europe
In Europe they go from 78 to 56 destinations. I suppose that a lot of holiday destinations will be axed
Last edited by Atlantis on 12 May 2020, 12:27, edited 1 time in total.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Exactly. SN wants to focus on business destinations and on long-haul feeder routes. But this does not exclude tourist destinations, some of which (the most profitable ones) will be maintained.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Bralo20 »

Sai wrote: 12 May 2020, 11:35 Long haul with single aisle A321LR? Oh my :o and that's in the best scenario...
I'd rather fly longhaul in any A320 compared to the Boeing 737 which is quite frequently used for TATL flights. But a wide body is even better off course.

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