TUI fly Belgium in 2020

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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

TUIfly Belgium plans a seasonal Liege – Oujda route from 11 June 2020 with A320.

TUIfly Maroc (usually operating with TUIfly Belgium aircraft) intends to operate Agadir – Toulouse service on 15 June 2020 with B737-800. The carrier will also offer Agadir – Bordeaux – Toulouse – Agadir triangle routing from 02 July 2020.
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PttU
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by PttU »

https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20200508_0495 ... te-crashen

It's behind a paywall, but some interesting answers:
TUI fly vliegt officieel opnieuw vanaf 8 juni. “Maar die datum gaan we niet halen, omdat we na een goedkeuring van de Nationale Veiligheidsraad enkele weken tijd nodig hebben om onze vliegtuigen klaar te maken. Volgende week zullen we een latere startdatum aankondigen”, zegt woordvoerder Piet Demeyere.
Officially the re-start date of TUI is June 3rd, but that will be postponed as they need to prepare the planes after the approval of the safety council. A later startdate will be announced next week.
A quote right after that, so I assume it's also by Piet Demeyere:
“Het is nog niet duidelijk of we deze zomer kunnen vliegen. Maar er komen wel openingen. Wij vliegen vanop Deurne naar Split in Kroatië. Dat land heeft al aangekondigd dat het deze zomer graag toeristen wil ontvangen. We vliegen vanop Deurne ook naar de Balearen en de Canarische Eilanden in Spanje. Die streken zijn minder hard getroffen dan bijvoorbeeld Valencia en Madrid. Ik kan me dus voorstellen dat de Spaanse overheid een opdeling zal maken van regio’s waar vakantiegangers zijn toegelaten en waar niet.”
Flying to the Canary Islands from Antwerp? Seems like a far stretch... Have they flown there from ANR before?
“We gaan geen warm eten meer serveren”, zegt Sarah Saucin, woordvoerder van TUI fly. “Bij de aankoop van een vliegtuigticket zullen klanten wel een lunchpakket kunnen bestellen. Dat moet bij de boeking meteen worden betaald. Het voorverpakte eten wordt dan op de vlucht uitgedeeld.
No more buy on board, but order a lunchbox while making the reservation.
TUI, de Duitse moedermaatschappij van TUI fly, heeft van de Duitse staatsbank KfW een staatslening van 1,8 miljard euro gekregen om de coronacrisis door te komen. “Er wordt nu bekeken welk deel van dat geld aan TUI fly in België wordt besteed”, zegt Sarah Saucin, ook woordvoerder van TUI fly.
TUI has received support from the German government (through KfW), they're looking what part can be used by TUI fly Belgium. Quite contradictory to the statements of KfW that German support should only benefit German companies.

TLspotting
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

PttU wrote:
09 May 2020, 10:13
“Het is nog niet duidelijk of we deze zomer kunnen vliegen. Maar er komen wel openingen. Wij vliegen vanop Deurne naar Split in Kroatië. Dat land heeft al aangekondigd dat het deze zomer graag toeristen wil ontvangen. We vliegen vanop Deurne ook naar de Balearen en de Canarische Eilanden in Spanje. Die streken zijn minder hard getroffen dan bijvoorbeeld Valencia en Madrid. Ik kan me dus voorstellen dat de Spaanse overheid een opdeling zal maken van regio’s waar vakantiegangers zijn toegelaten en waar niet.”
Flying to the Canary Islands from Antwerp? Seems like a far stretch... Have they flown there from ANR before?
The old Air Belgium perhaps ?
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

PttU wrote:
09 May 2020, 10:13
https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20200508_0495 ... te-crashen
...
TUI, de Duitse moedermaatschappij van TUI fly, heeft van de Duitse staatsbank KfW een staatslening van 1,8 miljard euro gekregen om de coronacrisis door te komen. “Er wordt nu bekeken welk deel van dat geld aan TUI fly in België wordt besteed”, zegt Sarah Saucin, ook woordvoerder van TUI fly.
TUI has received support from the German government (through KfW), they're looking what part can be used by TUI fly Belgium. Quite contradictory to the statements of KfW that German support should only benefit German companies.
Actually, "...It is now being examined what part of that money is spent on TUI fly in Belgium..." (cfr TUI in GVA.be) means that it's far from certain yet that TUI Belgium will receive German state aid. And KfW is quite firm on its website: "no funding for foreign projects by German companies or their subsidiaries based abroad" - see:
https://www.kfw.de/inlandsfoerderung/Un ... %28855%29/

What could be in favour for TUI Belgium to get German state aid after all, is that a large part of the Belgian cash reserves was sent to the German cashpool.

Matt
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Matt »

I tought the b737-700 was allowed to operate from Antwerp, no ?

that one should make it to the Canary islands

flightlover
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by flightlover »

737MAX wrote:
11 May 2020, 13:01
Matt wrote:
11 May 2020, 12:50
I tought the b737-700 was allowed to operate from Antwerp, no ?

that one should make it to the Canary islands
Not straight to the Canary Islands with full pax from ANR.
No way.
And fully packed "corona style" (one out of 3 seats empty)?

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

TUI Airlines Belgium will get aid from TUI Germany after all. Not because KfW makes an exception, but because a bankruptcy of TUI Airlines would cost "Germany" a lot more cash.

TUI Airlines Belgium has just reported a terrible (financial) year: a loss of 74.559.513 €, resulting in a negative own assets of 31.164.000 € and a cumulated loss of 37.764.000 €. Only reason for this drama: the 737-MAX disaster. TUI explains it in its published annual account: "...Wij hadden 4 toestellen in onze vloot en dit tekort moest opgevangen worden door extra inhuur. Naast deze substantiële kost (huurkost + hoger fuelverbruik ten opzichte van de MAX) werden we ook geplaagd door meer denied boarding compensations en dit als gevolg van een mindere operationele performance door een aantal lease-in carriers. Tenslotte werd ook een spare toestel ingezet om de MAX problematiek op te lossen wat ook tot een hogere DBC kost geleid heeft/ De gestegen capaciteit heeft aanleiding gegeven tot lagere yield op het seat only product... Bovenstaande elementen hebben ons resultaat negatief beihvloed voor meer dan 70 mio euro..." My translation, in brief: the replacement for our four 737-MAX aircraft has lead to higher lease + more fuel costs + more denied boarding compensations + one extra lease.

That's no reason off course for KfW to change its mind. What is relevant for them however, is what TUI Airlines also says: "...Aangezien een belangrijk deel van de cash positie zich bevindt op de interne TUI AG Group cashpool..." My translation: a substantial part of our liquidity is parked at the internal TUI AG Group's cashpool.

With TUI AG (Germany) itself in severe distress, they need every penny now. Belgian state aid however is unlikely when there is still company money parked on a foreign bank account. But if TUI Airlines Belgium would go bankrupt, the (Belgian) curator/curateur will demand full refund of the (Belgian) money that is parked in Germany. I can only guess how much that is, but it's most probably a lot more then what TUI Airlines Belgium now asks. Hence: reason enough for Mutti to be friendly.

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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Why doesn't TUI Airlines Belgium ask Boeing for compensation for the 737 MAX debacle? That should make up for most of the negative 2019 figures.
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DeltaWiskey
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by DeltaWiskey »

Passenger wrote:
11 May 2020, 15:52
TUI Airlines Belgium has just reported a terrible (financial) year: a loss of 74.559.513 €,
Thanks for the info. I hope this also opens the eyes of some other members on this board.

The max grounding is only one part of the story, the lease/loan is around $300k/month, or $14.4mill a year for 4 a/c. Together with some other sunk cost, a ballpark figure of €20 mill should cover the MAX grounding. I think the 737max story is used to cover up some other shortcomings as well.

Let's also keep in mind that is is just a one year figure and that the market has dramatically changed, 2020 should have looked a lot more positive for TB with the demise of their biggest competitor.

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by DeltaWiskey »

@737MAX: You don't have to feel offended. I wrote "some other members", this board almost exclusively discusses SN, almost nothing about TB is discussed, while it is the 2nd largest Belgian based airline. TUI fly deserves more attention on this board.

Numbers are numbers, these are objective.

In the wake of 737MAX grouding, EU261/DBC is only a valid excuse for the first 2 weeks immediately after the grounding, all the rest is crisis management. (I have >20y experience in the aviation industry, I know a thing or two)

For example: southwest was (is) also severely affected by 737 max, they "only" reported a 5% lower profit.

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Thus, I repeat my question: why don't we see the black figures "Boeing compensation for 737 MAX grounding" in their annual report?
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Poiu
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Poiu »

sn26567 wrote:
12 May 2020, 16:46
Thus, I repeat my question: why don't we see the black figures "Boeing compensation for 737 MAX grounding" in their annual report?
Because negotiations were still ongoing at the end of the financial year, maybe.
Did you see an agreement between TUI and Boeing? Compensation agreements are often confidential.
Compensation can come in different forms, it doesn’t have to be cash by the way.

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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Poiu wrote:
12 May 2020, 16:54
Compensation can come in different forms, it doesn’t have to be cash by the way.
I know that: in the case of Ryanair, it comes in the form of a serious discount on future deliveries. And since today, as an exclusivity on future deliveries (as there will no longer be Airbus deliveries to Lauda).
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by LJ »

sn26567 wrote:
12 May 2020, 16:56
Poiu wrote:
12 May 2020, 16:54
Compensation can come in different forms, it doesn’t have to be cash by the way.
I know that: in the case of Ryanair, it comes in the form of a serious discount on future deliveries. And since today, as an exclusivity on future deliveries (as there will no longer be Airbus deliveries to Lauda).
Ryanair hasn''t got a deal yet and a deal is postponed till the MAX is back in the air (despite MOLs deadline of May 19th).
Poiu wrote:
12 May 2020, 16:54
Did you see an agreement between TUI and Boeing? Compensation agreements are often confidential.
The content of the agreement may be confidential, the existence of such a deal should be disclosed by TUI as it's listed and having such an agreement is information shareholders should know.

Centrino
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Centrino »

I had a booking for september for BRU-MIA, round trip. Today TUIfly let me know that the flights are cancelled and I will receive a voucher.

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Centrino wrote:
15 May 2020, 15:07
I had a booking for september for BRU-MIA, round trip. Today TUIfly let me know that the flights are cancelled and I will receive a voucher.
They can't refund you right now: allmost all their money was sent to the German cashpool.

Maybe there will be news on 27th May, at the International Ondernemingsraad/Conseil d'Entreprise. But don't expect too much: the biggest Belgian trade union has already told that they will play it hard ("...Als ACV-Transcom zullen we er alles aan doen de tewerkstelling ten volle te verdedigen en te bewaren...").

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

737MAX wrote:
15 May 2020, 22:37
Passenger wrote:
15 May 2020, 21:42
Centrino wrote:
15 May 2020, 15:07
I had a booking for september for BRU-MIA, round trip. Today TUIfly let me know that the flights are cancelled and I will receive a voucher.
They can't refund you right now: allmost all their money was sent to the German cashpool.

Maybe there will be news on 27th May, at the International Ondernemingsraad/Conseil d'Entreprise. But don't expect too much: the biggest Belgian trade union has already told that they will play it hard ("...Als ACV-Transcom zullen we er alles aan doen de tewerkstelling ten volle te verdedigen en te bewaren...").
:roll:
Strange reaction. Are you really unaware of both facts?

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

737MAX wrote:
15 May 2020, 23:24
Mister Passenger, there is no need to answer more than a smiley. You are always right ;)
My question was not "are my facts right?", but "are you aware of the dramatic financial situation at both TUI Airlines Belgium and TUI Belgium?"

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

TUI Fly is going to axe 6 destinations. Miami and 5 European ones, most Greece destinations

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

The corona crisis sometimes provides for extraordinary itineraries due to the shortage of cargo aircraft.

TUIfly Belgium B787 OO-LOE is currently flying over the Indian Ocean between Seoul Incheon (ICN/RKSI) and La Réunion (RUN/FMEE) as JAF8504! The origin of the cargo was Guangzhou.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... e#248994a6
Capture.JPG
See also the story on the repatriation of Indonesian sailors from Hamburg to Denpasar by another TUIfly Belgium flight:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/tui- ... m-hamburg/
André
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