Brussels Airlines in 2020

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crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

Jetter wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 12:17
b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 11:24 Air France - KLM group receives stated aid for 12 billion, Brussels Airlines only asks 290 million.

There is a rumour that about 20 years ago, the French government allegedly bought two business class seats on every Air France flight. To avoid a fine by the European Commission. When Sabena went bankrupt, DAT (SN Brussels Airlines) was created with a bare minimum of starting capital, the Flemish government even didn't participate! The same time SWISS received at least one billion to restart.

Alitalia has been dead for many years, but they keep on going. Rescued by the Italian government.

I feel Belgians should be more proud of their Belgian companies,

History repeats itself …
Then Belgians should show more fiscal responsibility so the government has money to spend. For 2020 Belgium was predicted to have the highest budget deficit out of all EU countries! :o That hardly leaves any room to subsidize airlines.
But more importantly, politician should learn how to use public money "en bon père de famille".

You can put how much money that you want in a bag, if this bag is scratch on the bottom, the amount of money will remain the same.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 11:24 Air France - KLM group receives stated aid for 12 billion, Brussels Airlines only asks 290 million.

There is a rumour that about 20 years ago, the French government allegedly bought two business class seats on every Air France flight. To avoid a fine by the European Commission. When Sabena went bankrupt, DAT (SN Brussels Airlines) was created with a bare minimum of starting capital, the Flemish government even didn't participate! The same time SWISS received at least one billion to restart.

Alitalia has been dead for many years, but they keep on going. Rescued by the Italian government.

I feel Belgians should be more proud of their Belgian companies,

History repeats itself …
+1 !
12 billions for AF-KL vd 290 million for SN... it says it all...

brusselsairlinesfan
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Meanwhile, I saw that SN could phase out 10 planes. Does it include the City Jet planes or will they phase out Dome A319s, A320s or even A330s ?

LJ
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by LJ »

The Dutch NOS Journaal aparantly visted Brussels Airlines as they had an item on SN showing that SN needed to perfomr checks on its aircraft to remain flyable. Though a short segment it's good PR for SN as it was shown in the main NOS news (usually around 2.5mn viewers nowadays).

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

737MAX wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:52
brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:20

+1 !
12 billions for AF-KL vd 290 million for SN... it says it all...
It indeed says that SN is much - much - muuchhhh smaller, I guess.
I'm not sure if it's part of this deal, but apparently in The Netherlands employers are getting money from the government to pay their staff up to 100% of the wages during the pandemic.

SN's currently non-essential staff is taken off SN's hand entirely by the government. It could explain a part of the difference as well...

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:20
b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 11:24 Air France - KLM group receives stated aid for 12 billion, Brussels Airlines only asks 290 million.

There is a rumour that about 20 years ago, the French government allegedly bought two business class seats on every Air France flight. To avoid a fine by the European Commission. When Sabena went bankrupt, DAT (SN Brussels Airlines) was created with a bare minimum of starting capital, the Flemish government even didn't participate! The same time SWISS received at least one billion to restart.

Alitalia has been dead for many years, but they keep on going. Rescued by the Italian government.

I feel Belgians should be more proud of their Belgian companies,

History repeats itself …
+1 !
12 billions for AF-KL vd 290 million for SN... it says it all...
.

If I can interrupt in this comparing what each airline is receiving from their government.

I even can say that it is a useless discussion bcs you simply can't compare both.
AF/KLM is much much bigger. They are owner of their planes, or almost, they have a huge long haul and short haul, they have also their own cargo planes, they have lounges also on other airports in other countries and they have also much higher costs

So if they also have to pay back this money, like I think it will be, we'll good luck.

SN asked more or less 300 million, and they will receive 290 million. If SN requested this money, then it means that with this they can survive for some time. We don't know the modalities so I think that also SN has to return that money in some time. Probably this will be all included in the Reboot 2.0 so this reboot will be heavier which is obvious.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:22 Meanwhile, I saw that SN could phase out 10 planes. Does it include the City Jet planes or will they phase out Dome A319s, A320s or even A330s ?
The planes of Cityjet are normally calculated in those 10, or around 10, planes that has to leave the fleet.

More will be announced soon what the strategy will be and about the loan they will receive.

Normally no A330 will leave the fleet as those are the money makers. Probably those planes ex-Thomas Cook and a majority of the A319

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Atlantis wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 22:49
brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:20
b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 11:24 Air France - KLM group receives stated aid for 12 billion, Brussels Airlines only asks 290 million.

There is a rumour that about 20 years ago, the French government allegedly bought two business class seats on every Air France flight. To avoid a fine by the European Commission. When Sabena went bankrupt, DAT (SN Brussels Airlines) was created with a bare minimum of starting capital, the Flemish government even didn't participate! The same time SWISS received at least one billion to restart.

Alitalia has been dead for many years, but they keep on going. Rescued by the Italian government.

I feel Belgians should be more proud of their Belgian companies,

History repeats itself …
+1 !
12 billions for AF-KL vd 290 million for SN... it says it all...
.

If I can interrupt in this comparing what each airline is receiving from their government.

I even can say that it is a useless discussion bcs you simply can't compare both.
AF/KLM is much much bigger. They are owner of their planes, or almost, they have a huge long haul and short haul, they have also their own cargo planes, they have lounges also on other airports in other countries and they have also much higher costs

So if they also have to pay back this money, like I think it will be, we'll good luck.

SN asked more or less 300 million, and they will receive 290 million. If SN requested this money, then it means that with this they can survive for some time. We don't know the modalities so I think that also SN has to return that money in some time. Probably this will be all included in the Reboot 2.0 so this reboot will be heavier which is obvious.
I'd take a stake in SN for that 300 million euro so to have a say in the decisionmaking. I guess it might make the government majority owner?

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Atlantis wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 22:53
brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:22 Meanwhile, I saw that SN could phase out 10 planes. Does it include the City Jet planes or will they phase out Dome A319s, A320s or even A330s ?
The planes of Cityjet are normally calculated in those 10, or around 10, planes that has to leave the fleet.

More will be announced soon what the strategy will be and about the loan they will receive.

Normally no A330 will leave the fleet as those are the money makers. Probably those planes ex-Thomas Cook and a majority of the A319
Depending on what LH has in mind for EW, the EW-330's might be gone as well...

SR20
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by SR20 »

Tonight on LN24 : https://www.ln24.be/direct
.
Screenshot_20200427-092010_Gallery.jpg

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

Conti764 wrote: 27 Apr 2020, 01:11
Atlantis wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 22:53
brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:22 Meanwhile, I saw that SN could phase out 10 planes. Does it include the City Jet planes or will they phase out Dome A319s, A320s or even A330s ?
The planes of Cityjet are normally calculated in those 10, or around 10, planes that has to leave the fleet.

More will be announced soon what the strategy will be and about the loan they will receive.

Normally no A330 will leave the fleet as those are the money makers. Probably those planes ex-Thomas Cook and a majority of the A319
Depending on what LH has in mind for EW, the EW-330's might be gone as well...
SN -330's : 10 aircrafts / EW-330's : 4 aircrafts ! Correct ?

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by BrightCedars »

SR20 wrote: 27 Apr 2020, 09:22 Tonight on LN24 : https://www.ln24.be/direct

Screenshot_20200427-092010_Gallery.jpg
Is it a fresh one or a rerun from a couple weeks ago?

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Atlantis wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 22:49
brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 20:20
b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Apr 2020, 11:24 Air France - KLM group receives stated aid for 12 billion, Brussels Airlines only asks 290 million.

There is a rumour that about 20 years ago, the French government allegedly bought two business class seats on every Air France flight. To avoid a fine by the European Commission. When Sabena went bankrupt, DAT (SN Brussels Airlines) was created with a bare minimum of starting capital, the Flemish government even didn't participate! The same time SWISS received at least one billion to restart.

Alitalia has been dead for many years, but they keep on going. Rescued by the Italian government.

I feel Belgians should be more proud of their Belgian companies,

History repeats itself …
+1 !
12 billions for AF-KL vd 290 million for SN... it says it all...
.

If I can interrupt in this comparing what each airline is receiving from their government.

I even can say that it is a useless discussion bcs you simply can't compare both.
AF/KLM is much much bigger. They are owner of their planes, or almost, they have a huge long haul and short haul, they have also their own cargo planes, they have lounges also on other airports in other countries and they have also much higher costs

So if they also have to pay back this money, like I think it will be, we'll good luck.

SN asked more or less 300 million, and they will receive 290 million. If SN requested this money, then it means that with this they can survive for some time. We don't know the modalities so I think that also SN has to return that money in some time. Probably this will be all included in the Reboot 2.0 so this reboot will be heavier which is obvious.
And like we can see, the relationship between KLM and AF is not good at all. Af is receiving much more money but, bcs of the very strong French unions, they will not do any effort to reduce the costs or to work on a plan for the future.
This is really not what KLM want to see.

So we will see what their future will bring.

SR20
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Joined: 17 Apr 2017, 09:14

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by SR20 »

BrightCedars wrote: 27 Apr 2020, 10:15 Is it a fresh one or a rerun from a couple weeks ago?
If we trust the teaser it's a fresh one !

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Darjeeling »

If the ten aircrafts include OO-SFJ/K/L/P and the Cityjet CRJs, it would be rather good news.

But I fear that CRJs are considered as outsourced production. And the four ex-Lufthansa's A333, despite being OO-registered, still in Lufthansa's books as Lufthansa mainline assets...

I rather fear that the A32F fleet could be trimmed down, depending on lease terms, individually. And this to compensate operationaly the leisure market's production loss...

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by oldblueeyes »

The remaining 332 were targeted to leave the fleet 2021 and 2022.

The 4 333 flying for Eurowings might move back to "Ocean", so no more SN competence in the leisure long haul.

The remaining 8 333 are anyhow Lufthansa Assets leased further to Brussels.

The major questionmark on the short haul is if the future business model might be 320 centric as this is the workhorse of the industry (but than reducing frequencies and routes were this won't be economic) or 319, as SN didn't managed the upgauging from AVRO's in the numbers and demand will be short term anyhow lower.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

oldblueeyes wrote: 27 Apr 2020, 14:46 The remaining 332 were targeted to leave the fleet 2021 and 2022.

The 4 333 flying for Eurowings might move back to "Ocean", so no more SN competence in the leisure long haul.

The remaining 8 333 are anyhow Lufthansa Assets leased further to Brussels.

The major questionmark on the short haul is if the future business model might be 320 centric as this is the workhorse of the industry (but than reducing frequencies and routes were this won't be economic) or 319, as SN didn't managed the upgauging from AVRO's in the numbers and demand will be short term anyhow lower.
Of the A332, we knew that they were going to leave the fleet to have an all A333 fleet

We are speaking about the fleet of SN who is based in BRU. That's the most important to us.
What they were flying in DUS has nothing to do with the pax we have at BRU.

And now is important that we only look at ourselfs

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Atlantis wrote: 27 Apr 2020, 17:18 Of the A332, we knew that they were going to leave the fleet to have an all A333 fleet

We are speaking about the fleet of SN who is based in BRU. That's the most important to us.
What they were flying in DUS has nothing to do with the pax we have at BRU.

And now is important that we only look at ourselves.
This topic is about Brussels Airlines, not Brussels Airport. And Brussels Airlines has two bases: BRU and DUS. SN staff is present at both locations and the current (new) management considers the DUS staff as fully belonging to Brussels Airlines, not Lufthansa or Eurowings.
André
ex Sabena #26567

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by PttU »

And if the ACMI-contract of SN to deliver services to EW in DUS is profitable for SN: why not...

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

PttU wrote: 27 Apr 2020, 17:51 And if the ACMI-contract of SN to deliver services to EW in DUS is profitable for SN: why not...
Then again, all depends on what LH has in mind for EW post-Covid. LH is in need of money itself and might reduce EW ops to save as much as possible. Who even says EW will be flying long haul once this mess is over?

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