Air Belgium in 2020

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crew1990
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

JOVAN wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 14:56
crew1990 wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 11:44
Shonix wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 11:13
I wonder how Air Belgium will be able to position itself while SN will face hard times after the coronavirus crisis...
No where I guess, Air Belgium was mainly making money with ACMI contract (British Airways, Lot, etc) with the reduce demand those contract will certainly stop. Add to that that the regular twice weekly flight to the carribean will face some hard time too. There is no space for Air Belgium anymore

Help for all BELGIAN AIRLINES will be needed and given. Other countries will do same.
Ask Flybe, Germanwings, Braathens Regional and Miami Air if they got some help from there government.

Of course it would be great if the government of each country could help all their companies, airlines but not only, there are other thing than aviation in life too. The problem is that to help everyone, you need money, and unfortunately money is a limited resource. It's not possible to help every one, choice have to be made, in the interest of the country.

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by Airbus330lover »

Yes, give subsidies to a german company ?

crew1990
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

This is not about wich country own the airlines, if we start like this we have no"belgian airline".

I said in the interest of the country, no of the shareholder. Brussels Airlines, is that you like it or not, the one helping the most the country. It's providing job to 1000's of people, who are paying taxes in Belgium. Brussels Airlines is the airline with the more market share in Belgium and the main client of Brussels Airport, the second key point in Belgium. It allow many other non-aviation companies to make business abroad with flight to almost 100 airports and also all the expat to go home.

Air Belgium fly to 2 little island twice weekly half empty due to weight restriction. I would really like to see Air Belgium survive but I really don't see how. Same for Air Antwerp.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

crew1990 wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 15:26

.....
It's not possible to help every one, choice have to be made, in the interest of the country.
Exactly, the truth in plain face.
It resounds awfully like what our health care system has been trying to avoid : having to make choices when the demand exceeds your resources.

Incidentally, until there is (substantial and sustained) demand for air transport, what do you need in terms of supply : airlines, aircraft, ... ?

H.A.

Inquirer
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by Inquirer »

I agree that if their demand is addressed to the Belgian government, it stands a fairly low chance of being approved since they are of no strategic importance to our nation whatsoever.

However, they do have an important role to play at CRL airport, given the regional airport had big hopes of using them as their strategic partner to break out of their regional profile with: as such I think that it would be more appropriate if they'd request aid from the SRIW than from the FPIC: those are more likely to rule favourably on the question of them being of any strategic relevance to them, given they want an intercontinental airline to develop the airport -and thus the economic activity around it- further with.

Remains the question whether it is justifiable to facilitate cash going out of our country (which in essence a holiday abroad is), over making sure as cash will flow in (which in essence a network airline does, hence the desire of almost all nations to have such a homebased network airline at hands and to safeguard it now).

PttU
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by PttU »

I have the impression that Air Belgium did relatively more repatration flights compared to SN. Correct, or a wrong feeling?

crew1990 wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 16:00
Air Belgium fly to 2 little island twice weekly half empty due to weight restriction. I would really like to see Air Belgium survive but I really don't see how. Same for Air Antwerp.
Not really "same": Air Belgium relies on leisure travel, Air Antwerp relies on business travel.
Both have a different market, different company structure (and support), different cost model... Honestly, I see a brighter future for Air Antwerp compared to Air Belgium.

Poiu
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Shonix wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 11:13
I wonder how Air Belgium will be able to position itself while SN will face hard times after the coronavirus crisis...
Strange question, as whilst they’re both airlines, they operate in a completely different market segment.
You can’t compare them, but they’ll both struggle to survive for sure, especially if the Belgian State uses the same criteria as other countries do: only provide state guarantee to secure credit lines to airlines which were viable before Covid19.
Air Belgium has a cost structure which is more adapted to the actual situation, they normally get paid after the job, whilst SN is surviving on the cash generated by forward bookings, this the reason SN are not refunding cancelled flights for the moment and the reason they went for unsustainable growth in the past.
Unfortunately for Air Belgium there won’t be many ACMI contracts in the coming months, their only chance to survive is that the majors overreact, store too many aircraft and end up being short of backup aircraft.

kazansky137
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by kazansky137 »

sdbelgium wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 11:21
Another repatriation flight today: OO-ABB left BRU as ABB27P this morning to Maputo, Mozambique. On 11/12 of April a repatriation flight from Santo Domingo is planned (OO-ABA).
OO-ABB left Maputo at 18:50. Confirmed heading to Johannesburg.
Last edited by kazansky137 on 09 Apr 2020, 19:36, edited 1 time in total.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

kazansky137 wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 19:10
sdbelgium wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 11:21
Another repatriation flight today: OO-ABB left BRU as ABB27P this morning to Maputo, Mozambique. On 11/12 of April a repatriation flight from Santo Domingo is planned (OO-ABA).
OO-ABB left Maputo at 18:50. Seems to be heading to Johannesburg.
Indeed, it just landed. Next flight to FRA afterwards.
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Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

According to FR24, OO-ABA is about to leave BRU tonight for Seoul as ABB860P.

H.A.

FLYAIR10
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by FLYAIR10 »

by Homo Aeroportus » 20 Apr 2020, 15:59

According to FR24, OO-ABA is about to leave BRU tonight for Seoul as ABB860P.

And OO-ABB appears to be on its way to Lima, as per FR24 this morning. Well, at least to South-America...
It seems they are more busy than SN and TUI these days...
Hopefully it brings in some extra cash for ABB aswell..

sdbelgium
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by sdbelgium »

Busy days for ABB indeed.

OO-ABA flying to ICN/PVG tonight - returning to XCR
OO-ABB flying to LIM/GYE since this morning
OO-ABD flying for Surinam Airways to PBM this afternoon

On Thursday 23/04 a flight to Algiers is planned again.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

sdbelgium wrote:
20 Apr 2020, 16:15
Busy days for ABB indeed.

OO-ABA flying to ICN/PVG tonight - returning to XCR
OO-ABB flying to LIM/GYE since this morning
OO-ABD flying for Surinam Airways to PBM this afternoon

On Thursday 23/04 a flight to Algiers is planned again.
OO-ABA, cargo flight via China. ICN seems to be used as an hotel airport (as many airlines use it before heading back to China afterwards).
OO-ABB, return expected tomorrow morning from Guayaquil, and on Thursday heading to Algiers.

OO-ABD might be expected to operate 3 return flights from Amsterdam to Paramaribo.
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sdbelgium
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by sdbelgium »

OO-ABD returned to CRL this morning as SLM3003.
OO-ABA expected in BRU at 14.15 as ABB861P.

FLYAIR10
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by FLYAIR10 »

OO-ABD returned to CRL this morning as SLM3003.
OO-ABA expected in BRU at 14.15 as ABB861P.
OO-ABA made a flt Shanghai- Paris-Vatry(XCR) : Cargo-flt I assume..

sdbelgium
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by sdbelgium »

It would seem so.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

It is a cargo flight, as I told so in my previous post. Terzakis said that there were many millions of masks.
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FLYAIR10
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by FLYAIR10 »

Another Air Belgium plane on its way from CRL to the Far East.(Seoul)
Probably a stop in between to pick-up cargo later from China,I assume.

Surprisingly it is OO-ABE performing the flight; It has been a while that this horse was allowed to leave the stable...

FLYAIR10
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by FLYAIR10 »

As per FR24 OO-ABE is on its way back from Shanghai to LGG! ETA 13.50 LT.
It would be interesting to know how many tons of cargo are on board and whether also the upperdeck was used to store part of it..

As a sidenote I heard that freight tariffs TO China are also still increasing. I would think there is an opportunity for AB not to go empty to the Far East,but also to pick-up some cargo from Belgium/W-Europe while flying over there.

No surprise companies such as LH,LX,KL,... are having so many extra flights to China these days with PAX-planes…

SR20
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Re: Air Belgium in 2020

Post by SR20 »

FLYAIR10 wrote:
30 Apr 2020, 11:18
As per FR24 OO-ABE is on its way back from Shanghai to LGG! ETA 13.50 LT.
Another flight with OO-ABE is planned from Liege to Hong-Kong on May 3rd. Back to Liege on May 4th.

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