Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Poiu
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Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Crosswind wrote: 05 Apr 2020, 14:33 Let's talk money, my friends. Extract from official Brussels Airlines annual report 2018, code 621 : 40.245.263€
Previous year (2017) : 37.999.192€

Total amount paid to Belgium in two years (fiscal) : 78.244.455€. 78 millions euros ! 18 millions above the 60 millions currently "lost" by the SFPI-FPIM

If one really insist, we can calculate the total amount of taxes since the start of SNBA... It's huge. If you only take 35 millions a year for 15 year, you get a final amount paid to the state of around 525 millions, about half a billion € ! Is this monkey's money peanuts?

Next to that, a lot more of interesting and juicy incomes can still be incorporated (tickets and sales, taxes on Brussels Airport benefice).

Now question : who will choose not to take 40 millions a year ++, 3000 active people, 10 millions passengers/potential customers/visitors) a strategic know-how/capacity? The amount paid by the governement is ridiculous for such benefits.
I like your way of thinking, give businesses state guarantee for a loan equal to the taxes they paid over the last ten years.
However don’t take 261, which is social security, but take the actual taxes over a certain period.
As said before, there are a plethora of possible scenarios, I don’t think in any of them SN will have 3000 employees this time next year. 1500-2000 would be an educated guess.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

OK, we saw here now a lot of post which are not bringing us further. We only can see that between certain members is "een haantjesgevecht" about who is right or not.

Leave it up now to the big group of people who has to decide about it. Much will be clear in the next weeks.

Poiu
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Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Atlantis wrote: 05 Apr 2020, 18:45 OK, we saw here now a lot of post which are not bringing us further. We only can see that between certain members is "een haantjesgevecht" about who is right or not.

Leave it up now to the big group of people who has to decide about it. Much will be clear in the next weeks.
As written before, there is no right or wrong here, even the, so called, big group will have to take a decision without knowing what is right or not. Political influence will be an important factor for sure, for the rest your guess is as good as mine.
Why do you want to stop a discussion on an innocent forum though? I have loads of free time, my little business which hardly generated cash during the last 15 years is closed and the state pays me a very nice sum of money, which I would never have earned being close to bankruptcy before the crisis.
I love playing armchair CEO, claiming my victories but wholeheartedly admitting the defeats. You are most welcome in the arena but nobody forces you to read my nonsense nor any other irrational contributions, so just ignore them should they bother you.

Crosswind
Posts: 188
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 13:25

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Crosswind »

Poiu wrote: 05 Apr 2020, 18:37
I like your way of thinking, give businesses state guarantee for a loan equal to the taxes they paid over the last ten years.
No. Read again carefully and come back when fully understood.
Poiu wrote: 05 Apr 2020, 18:37 However don’t take 261, which is social security, but take the actual taxes over a certain period.
Please develop.

Poiu wrote: 05 Apr 2020, 18:37 As said before, there are a plethora of possible scenarios, I don’t think in any of them SN will have 3000 employees this time next year. 1500-2000 would be an educated guess.
You are sure about lots of things, I mean...

lucas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2017, 15:06

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lucas »

Brussels Airlines halts all flights till 15 may.

Source: De Standaard

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

lucas wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 10:24 Brussels Airlines halts all flights till 15 may.

Source: De Standaard
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... il-15-may/
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

737MAX wrote: 02 Apr 2020, 12:49
Conti764 wrote: 02 Apr 2020, 12:39 I'm far from an expert but given the particular situation both companies are in, I could imagine a Fortis-scenario for Tui and a Belfius-scenario for SN.
TUI BE doesn't need that (yet). The loan TUI secured a couple of days ago goes for the entire TUI group.
Nope. The €1,8B German state aid (via KfW) to TUI AG (Germany) is only for the German company, and not for the foreign divisions.

Trust the same principle will apply when Lufthansa gets a German bail out: only LH, not for SN OS LX.

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Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Darjeeling »

I was due to fly BRU-Montreal in June, outbound on SN, inbound on AC... and my outbound leg is now rebooked on Air Canada (seemingly on a Dreamliner). :(

It wasn't an SN award fare but well a Star Alliance business fare I was booked on Lufthansa site.

I'm not sure they're going to start Montreal ops in summer 2020... :roll:

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

737MAX wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 12:14
Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 11:39 The €1,8B German state aid (via KfW) to TUI AG (Germany) is only for the German company, and not for the foreign divisions.

Trust the same principle will apply when Lufthansa gets a German bail out: only LH, not for SN OS LX.
Any source for that?
Yes. My source is reliable. Very reliable, actually.

(edited: typo)
Last edited by Passenger on 06 Apr 2020, 13:32, edited 1 time in total.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by CTBke »

Darjeeling wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 12:41 I was due to fly BRU-Montreal in June, outbound on SN, inbound on AC... and my outbound leg is now rebooked on Air Canada (seemingly on a Dreamliner). :(

It wasn't an SN award fare but well a Star Alliance business fare I was booked on Lufthansa site.

I'm not sure they're going to start Montreal ops in summer 2020... :roll:
not sure indeed... what's the use to have several airliners flying there with empty planes while struggling instead of giving every company the chance to rebuild their network
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Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

SN presently doesn’t accept requests to refund tickets of cancelled flights...

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

Poiu wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 15:45 SN presently doesn’t accept requests to refund tickets of cancelled flights...
Story time : My teachers have a big problem.
We (me and more than 60 other students) were supposed to fly in more than 2 weeks for a school trip. However, Brussels Airlines refuse at the time to refund us. Because nobody is sure to fly again with Brussels Airlines (while a friends trip of 5 people wouldn't have been a problem at all)
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Poiu wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 15:45 SN presently doesn’t accept requests to refund tickets of cancelled flights...
General principle with all airlines now: no refunds, only vouchers.

TLspotting wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 16:06 Story time : My teachers have a big problem.
We (me and more than 60 other students) were supposed to fly in more than 2 weeks for a school trip. However, Brussels Airlines refuse at the time to refund us. Because nobody is sure to fly again with Brussels Airlines (while a friends trip of 5 people wouldn't have been a problem at all).
They wouldn't refund a trip of 5 neither.

What have your teachers booked? Just 60 tickets, direct with Brussels Airlines? Hotels? Direct, or in a package via a Belgian travel agent or touroperator?

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 16:20
What have your teachers booked? Just 60 tickets, direct with Brussels Airlines? Hotels? Direct, or in a package via a Belgian travel agent or touroperator?
About the 5 people, I was saying that it would be easier to postpone a friends trip than a school one.

They have booked everything via brusselsairlines.com, however it wasn't a group booking (maybe 5 or 6 different).
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 16:20
Poiu wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 15:45 SN presently doesn’t accept requests to refund tickets of cancelled flights...
General principle with all airlines now: no refunds, only vouchers
Not true, just got a refund from easyJet.
Had an EU claim with SN which should have been paid a month ago, but hasn’t been paid either.

Crosswind
Posts: 188
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 13:25

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Crosswind »

I'm not a specialist on that specific question, but can refunds be demanded if and only if the flight is officially cancelled within a 14 days time frame before originally booked expected departure day? So TLSpotting could not meet required conditions to be refunded?

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Crosswind wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 16:51 I'm not a specialist on that specific question, but can refunds be demanded if and only if the flight is officially cancelled within a 14 days time frame before originally booked expected departure day? So TLSpotting could not meet required conditions to be refunded?
I will reply a bit later in the more appropriate topic "impact of corona on aviation".

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

Poiu wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 16:44
Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 16:20
Poiu wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 15:45 SN presently doesn’t accept requests to refund tickets of cancelled flights...
General principle with all airlines now: no refunds, only vouchers
Not true, just got a refund from easyJet.
Had an EU claim with SN which should have been paid a month ago, but hasn’t been paid either.
Exactly, just received my money back today ORY - RAK with Transavia. The flight was 3 weeks ago...

Poiu
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Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Crosswind wrote: 06 Apr 2020, 16:51 I'm not a specialist on that specific question, but can refunds be demanded if and only if the flight is officially cancelled within a 14 days time frame before originally booked expected departure day? So TLSpotting could not meet required conditions to be refunded?
EU compensation is due within 14 days before departure.
Of course you are entitled to a refund when your flight is cancelled outside of two weeks.
According to Test Achat, it’s illegal to refuse a refund
Last edited by Poiu on 06 Apr 2020, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.

Crosswind
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Crosswind »

Indeed, airlines must offer to their customers the choice between three options, and refund them within 7 days, in the case.

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