Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

FLYAIR10 wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 15:57
Atlantis wrote: ↑21 Mar 2020, 12:49
Finally some time to write here something after a very hectic time. Sorry if the question was already but I had no time to read everything

On our Brucargo it is now busier than ever. Really a lot of cargo flights and even more to come. There is even lack of capacity as belly cargo felt away.
Would it not be an idea, with the free airplanes of SN, to use their A330 as cargo planes? Prices for cargo are now 5 times higher than before. This could generate really a lot of money for SN in this difficult times.
We really need more cargo planes now
I've read American Airlines is doing that with the 77W bellies at the moment. Not a bad idea, considering SN's more recent A333s have an interesting cargo payload capacity.
I was thinking the same. What would be the maximum theoretical capacity of the 'new' A333's on let's say BRU-Monrovia or BRU-Kinshasa? Would it be about 40 tons cargo payload? (non-stop)
An A333 is about 40 t on 4000NM but SN has passenger aircraft, not cargo specific.

In the cargo hold you can load up to 32 ULDs. 18 LD3 in the FWD hold and 14 in the AFT hold.
Problem would be to use the main deck I guess. Getting rid of the seats is one thing but then you are still to bulk load (passenger entrance door width limitation). Also how to restrain the packages?

But most probably an opportunity indeed.

Can we imagine that one day we won't have to buy masks in China and have these produced here?
Former CEO Wilfried Van Assche would have quickly realized the potential of a biiig manufacturer of hygiene products located in Buggenhout. ;)

H.A.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

FLYAIR10 wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 15:57
Atlantis wrote: ↑21 Mar 2020, 12:49
Finally some time to write here something after a very hectic time. Sorry if the question was already but I had no time to read everything

On our Brucargo it is now busier than ever. Really a lot of cargo flights and even more to come. There is even lack of capacity as belly cargo felt away.
Would it not be an idea, with the free airplanes of SN, to use their A330 as cargo planes? Prices for cargo are now 5 times higher than before. This could generate really a lot of money for SN in this difficult times.
We really need more cargo planes now
I've read American Airlines is doing that with the 77W bellies at the moment. Not a bad idea, considering SN's more recent A333s have an interesting cargo payload capacity.
I was thinking the same. What would be the maximum theoretical capacity of the 'new' A333's on let's say BRU-Monrovia or BRU-Kinshasa? Would it be about 40 tons cargo payload? (non-stop)
And with cargo on both ways would be even more profitable. There is a huge need to/from Asia and The States/South America and Africa.

As planes will be on the ground till May, they can do the effort in preparing them for cargo.

The demand is really huge that for sure they pay you a really high price and prices are already 5 times higher.

It would be really good for their cash flow and our market will be served as well

longwings
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by longwings »

Darjeeling wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 14:21
Atlantis wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 12:49
Finally some time to write here something after a very hectic time. Sorry if the question was already but I had no time to read everything

On our Brucargo it is now busier than ever. Really a lot of cargo flights and even more to come. There is even lack of capacity as belly cargo felt away.
Would it not be an idea, with the free airplanes of SN, to use their A330 as cargo planes? Prices for cargo are now 5 times higher than before. This could generate really a lot of money for SN in this difficult times.
We really need more cargo planes now
I've read American Airlines is doing that with the 77W bellies at the moment. Not a bad idea, considering SN's more recent A333s have an interesting cargo payload capacity.
American is doing it with various aircraft, BA is flying 787s and 777s to India and South Asia for cargo only, Air Hong Kong is flying A330s into China and Japan, and Delta has recently announced every aircraft type is available for cargo charter. Bottom line, passenger aircraft are used to move cargo now due to the drop in supply. I've heard Lufthansa may also use some of its A340s for cargo, but no confirmation.

Homo Aeroportus
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Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Looks like somebody has already developed a solution to load cargo on the main deck of a Pax aircraft.

SeatPack Trio.jpg
SeatPack Trio.jpg (26.33 KiB) Viewed 1351 times

See : http://www.seatpack.net/
Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

OK, at $2 000.00 a pop they'd better offer some discount but why not?

H.A.

PS : Not sure the above model will fit the seat pitch of some "optimized" cabin.

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Ozzie1969
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Ozzie1969 »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 19:02
Looks like somebody has already developed a solution to load cargo on the main deck of a Pax aircraft.


SeatPack Trio.jpg


See : http://www.seatpack.net/
Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

OK, at $2 000.00 a pop they'd better offer some discount but why not?

H.A.

PS : Not sure the above model will fit the seat pitch of some "optimized" cabin.
How will you fit this into the cabin, let alone into (and out of !) those seats. Better not weigh too much.
Last edited by Ozzie1969 on 22 Mar 2020, 21:49, edited 1 time in total.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Boavida »

I read that Air Belgium is flying Belgians home from Argentina. Absolutely great, but why isn't Brussels Airlines doing this?

Atco EBBR
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atco EBBR »

Isn't an A340 more suited for that route than an A330?

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Boavida wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 00:08
I read that Air Belgium is flying Belgians home from Argentina. Absolutely great, but why isn't Brussels Airlines doing this?
Range?

flightlover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by flightlover »

The solution of storing freight on top of the seats is OK for transporting feather weight goods, but otherwise you might incur more costs than revenue by doing this. Removing seats and fastening freight however is easier than one might think. ULD's have the same type of rails for fastening the net that goes over the freight.

Access will be limited by the door size and or any fixed interior parts that can not be easily removed like galleys, toilets, etc.. Weight by the specific load the rail can withstand.

Then we come to the last piece of the puzzle: costs. As you might expect loading bulk freight will take longer and you'll need more people. I can hardly imagine the handling company will quote the same for a A330-200 Loaded with bulk on the maindeck as they would do with 'normal' operations with pax or ULD's. So I doubt that option will be viable for a large passenger plane. (And this is my personal hope as I would not like to be the one loading this)

So to conclude:
Would it be possible to load freight in the passenger cabin; yes
Would it cost a lot to change the plane for those ops; No, not that much
Would I like to be loading a plane with bulk on the main deck? HELL NO!!

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by DeltaWiskey »

Boavida wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 00:08
I read that Air Belgium is flying Belgians home from Argentina. Absolutely great, but why isn't Brussels Airlines doing this?
Hi, it's a wild guess, but maybe because they BRU-based A330's don't have a cargo crew rest? OO-SFP has been transferred to BRU yesterday, maybe for this purpose?

Flying cargo on the main deck on passenger aircraft is out of question now, too much work & long lead time to make this work. Flying cargo only, without passengers, is something that may be considered though...

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

DeltaWiskey wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 07:49

Flying cargo on the main deck on passenger aircraft is out of question now, too much work & long lead time to make this work. Flying cargo only, without passengers, is something that may be considered though...
Fire detection and fire fighting would be a huge problem when transporting cargo on the main deck.
With prices going up and cheap fuel, flying cargo only could be a temporary solution for a limited amount of aircraft indeed.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by PttU »

DeltaWiskey wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 07:49
Boavida wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 00:08
I read that Air Belgium is flying Belgians home from Argentina. Absolutely great, but why isn't Brussels Airlines doing this?
Hi, it's a wild guess, but maybe because they BRU-based A330's don't have a cargo crew rest? OO-SFP has been transferred to BRU yesterday, maybe for this purpose?

Flying cargo on the main deck on passenger aircraft is out of question now, too much work & long lead time to make this work. Flying cargo only, without passengers, is something that may be considered though...
I'm no expert at all, but isn't a "cargo crew rest" normally a place in the cargo hold to rest? Why do you need a cargo crew rest, can't you just use the "normal" passenger compartment for the crew to rest?

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Airbus330lover »

Conti764 wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 02:09
Boavida wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 00:08
I read that Air Belgium is flying Belgians home from Argentina. Absolutely great, but why isn't Brussels Airlines doing this?
Range?
A330 of SN has not the needed range.
And support all the belgian airlines, same for TUI

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

This is how a China Eastern A330 was converted for freight transport to Prague:

Image
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

sn26567 wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 11:53
This is how a China Eastern A330 was converted for freight transport to Prague:

Image
Like someone already mentioned... I don't wanne be one of the guys loading/offloading this plane.

Matt
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Matt »

Airbus330lover wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 08:47
Conti764 wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 02:09
Boavida wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 00:08
I read that Air Belgium is flying Belgians home from Argentina. Absolutely great, but why isn't Brussels Airlines doing this?
Range?
A330 of SN has not the needed range.
And support all the belgian airlines, same for TUI
The A330-200 , even with old PW 4000's, has about the same range of a a340-300. In fact, the 787-8 from Tui has the biggest range of all those aircraft. I don't think the range is the real culprit.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Where are the SN aircrafts stored during the lockdown?

Kapitein
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Kapitein »

brusselsairlinesfan wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 14:11
Where are the SN aircrafts stored during the lockdown?
At some remote stands, a few are standing on taxiways and a few other are standing at the end of pier A. We don’t use that part of the terminal for the moment

FLYAIR10
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by FLYAIR10 »

Here's another youtube film of yesterday on the subjecy of loading cargo on passenger planes.
Mentioning AA,DL,LH,...



AA is using belly space only apparently , at least on the DFW-FRA run.


Brussels airlines what are you waiting for? Already now or Within a 1-2 weeks forwarders/enterprises in Belgium must be stockpiling quite some cargo on a lot of destinations they can't move for the time being because of stopped PAX-flights.

I also have some vague memories of Freddy Van Gaever showing specially shaped cargo bins (in plastic or polyester) on the seats of VLM's F-50's.His intention was to load small parcels/courier shipments on his regular pax flights. I don't know if VLM used those bins in reality though.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

DeltaWiskey wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 07:49

Hi, it's a wild guess, but maybe because they BRU-based A330's don't have a cargo crew rest? OO-SFP has been transferred to BRU yesterday, maybe for this purpose?
...
OO-SFP is indeed planned to run SN9901 tomorrow.
Leaving BRU at 0900, arriving DSS at 1410.
Maybe a repatriation flight. Return after a 2-hour turnaround and no overnight for the crew as this could be a single shot.

H.A.

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