Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Of course. What else would you have expected?

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cathay belgium
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

An government which pull the plug out and make 12000 people redundant which all have votes ;)
Are we cheering here to see another airline go bust ? Haha
Belgian type of Sabenausia ?

Well as long as LH isn't involved in a solution I'm glad :)

Hope Delta will be tough enough to pull the strings...

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New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E140

ticketbuyer
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ticketbuyer »

Alitalia is to receive another 400k Euros to keep it flying.
Still the luckiest airline in the world.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-alita ... KKBN1Y626G

sterling
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sterling »

ticketbuyer wrote:
02 Dec 2019, 22:03
Alitalia is to receive another 400k Euros to keep it flying.
Still the luckiest airline in the world.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-alita ... KKBN1Y626G
You mean 400m.... they are losing at least 400k per day. :(

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Atlantia (owned by the Benetton family) is still interested in supporting the relaunch, and not the rescue of Alitalia, says its chairman.

Whatever! They want the benefits, not the costs.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

The Italian business newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore recently reported that Lufthansa is willing to buy Alitalia, but only after the airline has turned into profit. A reduction of staff is necessary, Carsten Spohr told the Italians. The newspaper adds that Lufthansa thinks that a fleet reduction and a staff reduction (from 11.500 to 5.000-6.000) are necessary:
https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/alitali ... ne-ACl93a6

Reply from Delta: "we're also interested, and we want KLM-Air France to financially back our plan":
https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/delta-p ... ia-ACtA6v6

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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Should we believe that or have a good laugh?

Italy will not pump more public money into Alitalia, Industry Minister Stefano Patuanelli said on Saturday, warning that the troubled airline could shut down by mid-2020 without a buyer.

Alitalia, which is losing 2 million euros a day, was put under a new temporary administrator this month after a consortium of potential rescuers backed out.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKBN1YP06U
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Delta Air Lines is putting pressure on Air France KLM to enter the shareholding of the new Alitalia to prevent the Italian carrier from falling into the Lufthansa network.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

737MAX wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 17:04
sn26567 wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 15:21
Should we believe that or have a good laugh?
I don't think the fact that thousands of people might be losing their job is worth the question.
Whether it's true or not, those who risk their job are not laughing at all. Those who laugh with this are selfish idiots.
Nobody laughs with the employees, but fact is that the ongoing state support is ridiculous. A statement "for the last time" is such nonsense that a good laugh is a normal reply to that lie.

Alitalia is subsidized employment. The only reason why it doesn't stop, is because the EU-bureaucrats take their time to investigate is.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Yuqu12 »

Passenger wrote:
22 Dec 2019, 11:58
737MAX wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 17:04
sn26567 wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 15:21
Should we believe that or have a good laugh?
I don't think the fact that thousands of people might be losing their job is worth the question.
Whether it's true or not, those who risk their job are not laughing at all. Those who laugh with this are selfish idiots.
Nobody laughs with the employees, but fact is that the ongoing state support is ridiculous. A statement "for the last time" is such nonsense that a good laugh is a normal reply to that lie.

Alitalia is subsidized employment. The only reason why it doesn't stop, is because the EU-bureaucrats take their time to investigate is.
Plus it's extremely difficult to make them stop. The Commission can order them to repay the illegal State aid, but if Italy doesn't comply, it can take years before the CJEU condemns Italy to pay a lump sum fine and a fine per day that they don't order to repay the illegal State aid.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

Yuqu12 wrote:
22 Dec 2019, 14:23
Passenger wrote:
22 Dec 2019, 11:58
...
Alitalia is subsidized employment. The only reason why it doesn't stop, is because the EU-bureaucrats take their time to investigate.
...
Plus it's extremely difficult to make them stop. The Commission can order them to repay the illegal State aid, but if Italy doesn't comply, it can take years before the CJEU condemns Italy to pay a lump sum fine and a fine per day that they don't order to repay the illegal State aid.
Indeed, if the EU rules that it is illegal state aid indeed, it can take a few more years before the money will be actually recovered.

But the EU slowness is also a major disadvantage for Alitalia. Without a EU decision, foreign airlines will not invest hard money into Alitalia: they know that the risks exists that the Italian authorities will be forced to recover 1,3 billion € from the Alitalia bank account (think it's 600M + 300M + 400M).

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lumumba
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba »

Alitalia will never pay back the money they received from the Italian state and the EU will not move!

Today the EU is more afraid that another country could leave it and today the anti EU feeling is very strong they will not make it stronger sure not in Italy.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Alitalia's extraordinary commissioner, Giuseppe Leogrande, says the carrier had “burned up around €300 million a year in the period of extraordinary administration”, which began over three years ago.

Will the government ever see its money back? (They don't say like Margaret Thatcher to the EU: "I want my money back" :) )
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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Is the end near?

Alitalia is in an “alarming situation” as the latest attempts to rescue the airline end in failure. State railway Ferrovie dello Stato and Lufthansa pulled out of a rescue attempt.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ticketbuyer »

In an official hearing yesterday Gianfranco BattistiHead of Ferrovia Italia, said that neither they or LH had any further interest in Alitalia.

convair
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by convair »

Let's give it another try with Costa Cruises now! :) ;)

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ticketbuyer »

Latest rumour is that Atlantia, owners of FCO, will take a major stake in AZ. Why? Atlantia risks losing its very lucrative Autostrada franchise because of the collapse of their Morandi Bridge on 14 August 2018,causing the death of 39 people. A lovely Italian style compromise.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by luchtzak »

Alitalia given six months to repay €400mn state loan, CH-Aviation writes (behind pay wall)

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

luchtzak wrote:
15 Jan 2020, 16:26
Alitalia given six months to repay €400mn state loan, CH-Aviation writes (behind pay wall)
I can't find confirmation about this on the European Union's State Aid website.
Who has ordered this repayment? The Italian government?

And if Alitalia can't repay, they will probably get a new loan from the Italian government that will allow them to settle the old loan...

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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Alitalia managing director Giancarlo Zeni is mulling a new restructuring plan which includes a review of lease contracts, eight fewer aircraft, and 1000 lost jobs.

I'm afraid that will not be enough to get the airline out of the red figures...
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