Brussels Airlines in 2019

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Atlantis
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Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis »

A route where you have to be...
It's a huge market for business and the cargo is valuable too...

This is a market where you have to be....

Nothing confirmed yet but what will they keep Spain, Greece, leisure flights... Come on????!!!!!

On this way we will never receive any Star long haul after all effort. It starts to be a big joke but one where you are not laughing with....

If your home carrier is shrinking you cannot develop what you had in mind.

If confirmed, but again nothing is visible yet, some others can jump on it. Wizzair has now the perfect plane for that to do this distance.

Hopefully the other alliances will grow further as Star is less shining above BRU.

It starts to be frustrating for all of us...

ezis_bis
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Location: Tallinn, EU

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by ezis_bis »

Atlantis wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 14:29 It starts to be frustrating for all of us...
It starts to be unbelievable
My partner had to be in SXB this week, very last minute, wanted to check SN... No flights
Really, nothing, all week

(Has this also been cancelled without telling?)

So, Air France it was

And considering the proximity of AMS and CDG, maybe SkyTeam will be more and more interesting for us
We both have *A Gold, but we're not married to it

Anyway, there are 3 daily flights between BRU and MOW with Aeroflot, I hope LH seriously doesn't think people will prefer changing in FRA instead?

Also, I seem to be ranting a bit too much, I could book this today;
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theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by theeuropean »

They are still trying to define the reboot plan, I heard from the grapevine.

Hopefully this is part of an optimisation of the network, because they could potentially earn more with better timings for different destinations.

I know A3 (very different market) but it does stop some of its "year round routes" for a few weeks in winter season as it is more cost effective to have a plane sitting in ATH than flying around empty, maybe SN is trying that experiment?

I also hope BRU is going to give SN some type of help of some kind - they should not be surprised or annoyed of a shrinking SN if they also don't do anything.

In other news EW is not looking good either and OS I feel is putting much hope on its US routes.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

convair wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 10:35 No more Moscow flights for SN? Has this been announced?
Was announced on this forum 3 weeks ago:
A321Lufthansa wrote: 03 Nov 2019, 19:07They will also stop operating Moscow flights from 18.11 till 20.12 and from 11.01 till 24.02. According to one of SVO employees their flights are usually loaded with 80-90 passengers. After moving to SVO they have nothing to do against Aeroflot which offers completely same on-ground conditions, a much better service with almost same prices and 21 weekly (3 daily) flights on board B738 against 5 weekly 319 in summer season and 4 weekly 320 in winter season.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair »

Jetter wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 16:15
convair wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 10:35 No more Moscow flights for SN? Has this been announced?
Was announced on this forum 3 weeks ago:
A321Lufthansa wrote: 03 Nov 2019, 19:07They will also stop operating Moscow flights from 18.11 till 20.12 and from 11.01 till 24.02. According to one of SVO employees their flights are usually loaded with 80-90 passengers. After moving to SVO they have nothing to do against Aeroflot which offers completely same on-ground conditions, a much better service with almost same prices and 21 weekly (3 daily) flights on board B738 against 5 weekly 319 in summer season and 4 weekly 320 in winter season.
I had missed that post; sorry.
That situation is very sad and worrying. SN was aiming at a second daily flight only a few years back. You can't compete if you can't offer at least an equivalent service for the same price.
Downgrading their service will not help to reboot.

ezis_bis
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Location: Tallinn, EU

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by ezis_bis »

If DME worked better than SVO, what was the logic behind the change ?
Plus, almost all LH group carriers are at DME

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 »

convair wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 16:43
Jetter wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 16:15
convair wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 10:35 No more Moscow flights for SN? Has this been announced?
Was announced on this forum 3 weeks ago:
A321Lufthansa wrote: 03 Nov 2019, 19:07They will also stop operating Moscow flights from 18.11 till 20.12 and from 11.01 till 24.02. According to one of SVO employees their flights are usually loaded with 80-90 passengers. After moving to SVO they have nothing to do against Aeroflot which offers completely same on-ground conditions, a much better service with almost same prices and 21 weekly (3 daily) flights on board B738 against 5 weekly 319 in summer season and 4 weekly 320 in winter season.
I had missed that post; sorry.
That situation is very sad and worrying. SN was aiming at a second daily flight only a few years back. You can't compete if you can't offer at least an equivalent service for the same price.
Downgrading their service will not help to reboot.
SN will never be able to compete with Aeroflot with both the same service level and the same price for the simple reason labour is much cheaper in Russia than in Western-Europe, let alone Belgium. And on top of that the very strict no-state-aid-policy of the European Union.

Western-European airlines have a major handicap towards many other airlines. You can have a firm position in those markets by offering frequency (which in this case Aeroflot offers itself) and service. A company the size of SN has to position itself as premium in the market in order to compete. It doesn't have the size LH, AF, KL, BA, IB,... and other big Euro legacy carriers have so it has to differentiate itself on service level, right the contrary they do today and what LH wants them to do.

Reboot is fine, shrinking might be necesary but if they don't position themselve as premium I'm afraid they'll disappear eventually.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU »

Conti764 wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 14:55 SN will never be able to compete with Aeroflot with both the same service level and the same price for the simple reason labour is much cheaper in Russia than in Western-Europe, let alone Belgium. And on top of that the very strict no-state-aid-policy of the European Union.
They can for connecting flights? For Russian travelers connecting to Africa.
And for (the few?) passengers preferring the airline over the service.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boavida »

Conti764 wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 14:55 A company the size of SN has to position itself as premium in the market in order to compete. It doesn't have the size LH, AF, KL, BA, IB,... and other big Euro legacy carriers have so it has to differentiate itself on service level, right the contrary they do today and what LH wants them to do.

Reboot is fine, shrinking might be necesary but if they don't position themselve as premium I'm afraid they'll disappear eventually.
Exactly.

SN has to completely move away from the low-cost identity and rebrand itself as a premium carrier. No more fancy (childish) colours, but a business image. LX style.

Just look at the current SN website or adverts. It screams low-cost.

(And if the name Brussels Airlines is already too contaminated/associated (with low-cost), they could use a new one. A legacy and premium name: Sabena ;) )

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 »

PttU wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 15:41
Conti764 wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 14:55 SN will never be able to compete with Aeroflot with both the same service level and the same price for the simple reason labour is much cheaper in Russia than in Western-Europe, let alone Belgium. And on top of that the very strict no-state-aid-policy of the European Union.
They can for connecting flights? For Russian travelers connecting to Africa.
And for (the few?) passengers preferring the airline over the service.
Maybe, but then again... How many Russians are going to Africa?

I doubt SN is offering that much more service than Aeroflot to warrant a ticketprice that allows SN to sustain a profitable operation to Moscow.

And that's exactly where they should diffirentiate. How is up to SN. But the fact LH expects an immediate result doesn't look good...

A321Lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by A321Lufthansa »

ezis_bis wrote: 21 Nov 2019, 16:52 If DME worked better than SVO, what was the logic behind the change ?
Plus, almost all LH group carriers are at DME
Travelling with SN instead of SU was better to passengers to whom DME is more convenient. Maybe SVO had offered a more reasonable price to attract them? That’s also twice absurdly because most of *A carriers in Moscow are allocated to DME excepting CA and LO (SVO) and TK (VKO). But the nicest airport in Moscow is VKO without a doubt - it is so spacious and half-empty that it’s always a pleasure to fly out of it, especially when you are travelling with TK. :) Unfortunately LH dropped its VKO flights in 2015. Although DME is not that bad also.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Maybe, but then again... How many Russians are going to Africa?

I doubt SN is offering that much more service than Aeroflot to warrant a ticketprice that allows SN to sustain a profitable operation to Moscow.

And that's exactly where they should diffirentiate. How is up to SN. But the fact LH expects an immediate result doesn't look good...
In deed

If we see the SN timetables flights on BRU-SVO flights, they don't have plan to feed their long haul.

Moscow is already well linked to Africa: Egyptair, Royal Air Maroc, Air Algérie, Tunis Air and Ethiopian Airlines serve Moscow. There are also lots of charter flights to Tunisa, operated by Tunisian or Russian Airlines. Some Russian Airlines send their B747s or B777s, to Tunisia

AF, KLM, Turkish Airlines, Lufthansa, TAP Air Portugal, operate several daily flights to Moscow. Oman Air, Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar Airways operate also several daily service to Moscow. There is also Aeroflot, which has code share service with Kenya Airways, on the Dubai-Nairobi service, optd by Kenya Airways. More choices to fly between Russia and Africa.

Most of Russians Tourist in Africa, go to North Africa, where SN has a small network (i talk about North Africa). Kenya, Seychelles or Mauritius are others "big" markets, in Africa. And from Africa to Russia, there are lots of African students, in Russia. I remmember when i back from Kigali to Paris with Qatar Airways, in 2014, i saw a group of Rwandan Students on the Kigali Doha flight, which was flying back to Russia.

Others big markets for Russians outside Europe, are Caraïbes and Southeast Asia, mainly for Tourism. 2 big Markets were SN doesn't serve and which are already well linked, from Moscow.

If SN keeps this timetables to Moscow, it's probably because, they know that people in connecting on their long haul flights could be low. I understand SN, it's probably a good choice. They have so many infos, that we don't have.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b.lufthansa »

SN's schedule from Russia is an afternoon flight to Brussels. That doesn't cater for African connection.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

OO-SFU grounded in BRU after nose wheel being hit by push-back truck

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... ose-wheel/
André
ex Sabena #26567

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

The positive of the day at SN: 3 hours late for New York but Kinshasa canceled .Facts.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b.lufthansa »

sn26567 wrote: 25 Nov 2019, 14:23 OO-SFU grounded in BRU after nose wheel being hit by push-back truck

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... ose-wheel/
All because of viewtopic.php?p=389505#p389505

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Nov 2019, 12:12
sn26567 wrote: 25 Nov 2019, 14:23 OO-SFU grounded in BRU after nose wheel being hit by push-back truck

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... ose-wheel/
All because of viewtopic.php?p=389505#p389505
Well yes everything is said! Still today ( Kigali canceled today and Toronto tomorrow...and...and...and...)... plane broken down ... it lasts for months but not for the same reasons ... but still down. LH does not care. SN becomes a company to avoid if you want to go from airport A to airport B. No reliability! So sad...but reality of those times !

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Darjeeling »

nordikcam wrote: 27 Nov 2019, 13:11
b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Nov 2019, 12:12
sn26567 wrote: 25 Nov 2019, 14:23 OO-SFU grounded in BRU after nose wheel being hit by push-back truck

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... ose-wheel/
All because of viewtopic.php?p=389505#p389505
Well yes everything is said! Still today ( Kigali canceled today and Toronto tomorrow...and...and...and...)... plane broken down ... it lasts for months but not for the same reasons ... but still down. LH does not care. SN becomes a company to avoid if you want to go from airport A to airport B. No reliability! So sad...but reality of those times !
SFU you all know what happened.
SFG has a significant hydraulic leak.
I think one BRU-based frame had to be dispatched to DUS to support EW ops.
And of course, at this time of the year, there's always a bit of "smart cancelling" in the air.

Cheers,

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair »

Darjeeling wrote: 28 Nov 2019, 16:04
nordikcam wrote: 27 Nov 2019, 13:11
b.lufthansa wrote: 26 Nov 2019, 12:12

All because of viewtopic.php?p=389505#p389505
Well yes everything is said! Still today ( Kigali canceled today and Toronto tomorrow...and...and...and...)... plane broken down ... it lasts for months but not for the same reasons ... but still down. LH does not care. SN becomes a company to avoid if you want to go from airport A to airport B. No reliability! So sad...but reality of those times !
SFU you all know what happened.
SFG has a significant hydraulic leak.
I think one BRU-based frame had to be dispatched to DUS to support EW ops.
And of course, at this time of the year, there's always a bit of "smart cancelling" in the air.

Cheers,
Second cancellation this week for SN359!

nordikcam
Posts: 1068
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

convair wrote: 28 Nov 2019, 17:12
Darjeeling wrote: 28 Nov 2019, 16:04
nordikcam wrote: 27 Nov 2019, 13:11

Well yes everything is said! Still today ( Kigali canceled today and Toronto tomorrow...and...and...and...)... plane broken down ... it lasts for months but not for the same reasons ... but still down. LH does not care. SN becomes a company to avoid if you want to go from airport A to airport B. No reliability! So sad...but reality of those times !
SFU you all know what happened.
SFG has a significant hydraulic leak.
I think one BRU-based frame had to be dispatched to DUS to support EW ops.
And of course, at this time of the year, there's always a bit of "smart cancelling" in the air.

Cheers,
Second cancellation this week for SN359!
And when we look more closely ... Toronto was canceled last Saturday, and today Thursday ... so 2 flights out of 3 operated during a week. It is therefore better to rescue a German passenger departing to Cancun or Phuket than a SN passenger on the SN network.
We were asked to stop using SN for non-European trips! All is said !
AA, SQ could come back. Good ! There is nothing more to wait in the ten years of SN that no longer exists. We'll talk about it as we talk about Biman ...Sad ! But a fact !

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